2-Channel Analog Interconnects/Speaker Cables - Page 9

Can you quote some of these disrespectful comments in opposition to opinions you stated?

Well.

I am going to stick to the sub/totem issue. I think we need someone with Wind to do a full range rew graph.

I am going to do a Full Range Rew sweep of my Totems and post it a bit later to see how it works compared to the specs.

Thee ask and the trolls shall come!

I have an honest question for the purely objective camp, i.e. those who claim that subjectivity is useless and has no value. When you make an audio purchase (speakers, amplifier, preamp, dac, etc.), do you do so purely based on measurements and spec sheets, or do you listen as well before making your purchase? And why or why not? Again, there is no right or wrong answer IMO, just curious. Thanks!

Depends what you are buying really. I don't see the value in listening to an amplifier, DAC, or a pre-amplifier.

A speaker? Well maybe, but even then it only has value if you listen to it at your own listening environment. Demoing a speaker at a dealer will be useless because it is likely to sound a lot different in your room.

Fair enough, and thanks for your response. What if one were to have a very well treated room, closely approximating an anechoic chamber. Then do you believe listening to the speakers is necessary?

I would think that you should for anything but an amp (since an amp is the only thing in the chain that shouldn't colour the sound at all). Every other component has analogue circuitry that absolutely has the potential to change the characteristics of the signal.

For anything else measurements will only tell you if it performs up to your requirements and they will also tell you numerically how it colours the sound but you still need to use your ears to see if whatever colouring is to your personal liking.

That would be my take on it

(from where i sit in the peanut gallery)

I think you misunderstood me. I didn't mean to imply that listening to speakers don't have any value in non-treated rooms.

My point was that where you listen to a speaker has a tremendous impact on the sound of the speaker, so listening to a speaker at a dealer, trade show, or best buy will not help you determine how they will sound in your own listening environment. This is the case irrespective of your room's treatment quality.

If you are able to try your speakers at your home, which usually can be arranged for high-end speakers, then there may be some value in it.

The issue with speakers is we all know they sound different. Yet most speaker manufacturers do not provide adequate measurements. Thus, I can see how it would be valuable to test-drive them in your room, especially if you are buying expensive ones.

That being said, I have been saving for Seaton Catalysts. Yet I have not even heard them once.

Sounds like me and my path towards either Salk Veracity HT2 or Tannoy revolution Signature DC6

But who know how many times the choice may change between now and when budget says jump.

this is where i am different from most people here...

- i don't buy the cable snake oil mumbo jumbo
BUT

- I do listen to my speakers with the amp i will be using with them.
- I don't usually go for "flat" "accurate" full response.
- I like my sound coloured a bit on the highs as i prefer warm sounding systems.
- I dislike speakers that are bright like klipsch and older paradigms.
- I dislike amps like bryston.

I admit i don't like my sound to be "accurate" scientifically.

Thanks, Rick. I appreciate your comments.

Nothing wrong with that. There are many who prefer sound of vinyl to CD, categorically because of vinyl's distortion.

Not my type of thing though.

I have yet to meet one person who didn't like Veracities. HT2 can be active, right?

My main problem with Salk is their low sensitivity. They are not ideal for home theater.

I did understand you, I just didn't word my response very well. But your answered my question anyway. Thank you.

And I understand buying without hearing when you have very high regard for the designer/company that makes a product.

There are other things one buys components besides sound quality. One should like the appearance of the component, it should meet one's needs as to flexibility and features. If one buys a speaker that is hard on amps, that is low impedance insensitive, you need a capable amp.
You certainly need to like the sound your speaker delivers but as said, your room has a great effect on this. And, you don't want an anechoic chamber type listening room, or close to one

Thanks for your response. I also auditioned Bryston and did not care for it - very precise, but sounded lifeless to me. That said, I'm still a solid-state guy who prefers CD's.

What do you mean, "active"?


Why is low sensitivity bad for HT? Doesn't it just mean you need a good amp?

In that category Simaudio i3, i5 are very good.


Yup vinyl not type of thing i prefer cds the dynamic range is great, plus i am a quality junkie.. if the production on an album is not good i pre judge it...


I was thinking about it and i realised my speakers are studio monitors they are used all over the world for production, editing and in studios.

I am not sure how flat they are but they are probably very flat... PMC DB1's.

My Amp is an arcam a32 which i KNOW colours the sound... My dac is a CI VDA which is supposed to be as flat as they get.

For my 2ch system the colouration, sound stage and everything is too perfect for me.


I would be interested what you guys think or have measured as flat equipment when it comes to mid to hi fi in terms of speakers amps etc etc.

Someone will correct me if i am wrong but doesn't low sensitivity mean "in-efficiency" just means "hard to drive" speakers basically another way of saying badly designed speakers.

Well treated room for listening to stereo would not closely approximate an anechoic chamber at all. Try this link for a source.


In a well treated room, of course. Speaker is one of the two major factors of improvement / degradation of sound quality in sound reproduction system, the other being room. It would also be necessary to experience the relationship between the measurements and spec vs real world performance for personal understanding of it.

I appreciate your feedback. I myself tend to purchase components that I believe are built well (preferably in the USA), have excellent specs and measurements, and most importantly whose sound I subjectively like.

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here. Could you please clarify?

I think he's just saying what I did - that different measurements just let you know things are different, but you need to listen to relate your preferences to the measurements.

If you've done it enough and have knowledge of what values of which measurements have proved to your liking then you might be able to go on measurements alone.

But it is always nice to listen - I mean that is what we are all really in this for is the listening pleasure.

Ah, yes - I understand now. Thank you.

And thank you, geekhd, for sharing your perspective.

Low sensitivity is not ideal by any means, but a speaker can be excellent in all other regards. It just requires a powerful amplifier to drive them properly. However, because of thermal compression limitations of drivers, an inefficient speaker is going to have a difficult time being as uncompressed and dynamic sounding as a highly efficient speaker.

That's my take on it, anyway.

Interesting comment from someone who always seems to be talking about 'balls"

I agree it's not about the money. It's about whether you actually will back up what you say with more than words. I am, you aren't. Fair enough. What was that word you used to describe some of us.......Oh yeah, coward, that's right. I think we all know who that word really applies to.

lol, I guess not. I should lurk in one for a bit

I would assume that is directed at me because I probably post the most that subjectivity has no value.

What you misread is that Im stay posted subjective opinion has no value. All of us buy for many reasons and obviously or own subjectivity is one.

The reason I buy is my reason only, I would never post why out of the blue using that subjective opinion as some fact that seems to be always trying to validate someone's purchase. I would never need online validation of anything I buy. I would never foolishly post "an amp was lifeless" because its has no intelligence to it.


I do try to buy based on measurements and specs but in the end it always matters how it sounds. I posted before its just foolish to listen before the product in an other setting other then your own room, with your own time and your own products and no uneducated, sometimes brash sales guy trying to give you subjective clues.

I only buy products with good return policies. Screw the local HiFi companies and their silly return policy (15%, etc). They deserve to go under for bad business decisions like that.