2-Channel Analog Interconnects/Speaker Cables - Page 10

Power compression, Driver compression, amp clipping.

Salk speakers will not work when sitting 12 feet back and wanting 85dB at that listening position. That means the speaker have to be able to play peeks past 115dB at 1M for split seconds....most can not.

Let alone they have less then idea off axis response. Constant Directivity is what ever HT room deserves.

many threads on this topic.

wow, this forum allows someone with a hidden agenda just come on and drum up a false thread purely designed to create business??

that's cool I guess, there are many that would blow a gasket.


I doubt many watched this. All should.

you'd be quite entertained...

if you think people at avs have some "interesting" ideas, just wait til you see what kind of interesting ideas gardeners come up with...

back to lurking...

I questioned the site by posting the link and a question over on the home theater construction forum.

Just for the heck of it, I'm going to argue that you shouldn't waste your time listening to any audio gear before you buy it. Obviously, for components that really aren't going to sound different from one another (amps, digital sources, wire), listening is pointless.

For speakers, the problem is different. First, as has been noted, there's the room issue. But more fundamental, I think, is that humans are just really, really bad testing devices. We're completely uncalibrated. We listen to the same thing over and over, and hear it differently each time. We listen to two speakers at different times (maybe only minutes apart), and we won't remember the details of the first well enough to compare the second. And even when we're comparing speakers side by side, they aren't in the same place in the room.

The right way to shop for speakers, it seems to me, is to look at measurements (not spec sheets, measurements) and choose one with a good, balanced frequency response both on and off axis, with as much bass extension as you can afford. Bring it home, and use your ears to place it properly in your room and control resonances. You'll get much better results than the hopeless dreamers auditioning speakers in showrooms.

Good post, I love the "We are completely uncalibrated"

Level matching isnt an easy thing to do. its impossible to do it outside of our home.

People could go listen to a speaker and hate it because of the dB level or the fact that they listened on a specific axis which isnt good for that speaker (horizontally or vertically). This is were meaurements come into play to actually listen properly we need to set all the conditions, levels, angles to maximize the comparisons.

For all those who just subjectively listen, does any of that make sense to you?

Listening sessions for those components may have some merit, such as checking for defects.

True, if you're buying the floor model.

Defects are based on specific instances so even if you go out and listen , then buy. The new one stick packaged could have a defect.

I think reviews online posting defects is one part of the subjective experience that i think is a positive one.

Actually, this post was not directed at you, penngray. I just really want to understand the other point of view. So I posed the question as such. I obviously believe subjectivity has value, in conjunction with objective measurements and specs. And thank you for chiming in - I appreciate your feedback.

Thanks for sharing your opinion, mcnarnus. I do respect your consistent point of view.

Self amplified speakers with internal DSPs. I really like this idea even though it seems Jim Salk didn't seem to find much difference between active and passive versions of his HT3s.


Low sensitivity is not only "bad", but it is evil. HT2 has a sensitivity rating of 87db. If you aim to reach THX reference peaks (which is a must for good HT experience), these speakers will require an amplifier with a power rating of approximately 2,000 watts/channel at a listening distance of about 12 feet. Are you familiar of any amplifier with that kind of power rating? To be frank, you may not have that much power in your outlet even if you had the amplifier.

So no. HT2 won't work at a high-end Home Theater.


"Bad" is not the right word. A better way to say it would be: "Compromised". I am sure Penn can explain this better, but the entire process of speaker building can be summarized as "picking your compromises". Every single speaker out there is compromised one way or the other. I wouldn't dare call Salk speakers "bad" in any way.


Idea is to listen to them at your own listening environment irrespective of whether it is treated or not.


Really?


Or even better is to get speakers that roll the low frequency off and in stead get separate subwoofer(s), if you have the space.

Greek Audiophile Video for those who may have not seen this is very fitting for this thread/section.

"Clear Electricity"

It amazes me that these nut cases don't realize that the studio that PRODUCED and PRESSED (mass high speed production) the vinyl does not EVER use such outlandish equipment. The same goes for cables obviously and electric power.

BTW I am sure even in Greece, that guy's power feed is 100%illegal installation practices used.

it is true audiophoolery laughs.

Best is clean power... like why not create your own powersource... because whatever is fed from the transformer to your socket is same stuff but somehow a magical power cable can clean the sound... god.

here is another funny one...

directional... laughs.

this video should be an intro video for av science forum.


wipes tears i watched the video again and its still a big laugh.

So I watched both of these videos, and found then very entertaining. Thanks for the links. The "Greek Audiophile" one was really sad, actually. It is obvious that these guys' obsessions aren't making them or their families any happier, but they are so deep in they cannot stop. Classic OCD behavior.

Those systems were a little over the top, but you gotta admit, they sounded really good.

Ron

Well you can clean up a power source with a Double Conversion Battery Backup. It takes the AC, changes it to DC, then back to AC. It produces a clean sine wave and it is filtered. Now how much it will help...depends on how bad your power is. YMMV.

You can have an even cleaner source using a motor/generator set....but the post was about a conductor, which can ...if you throw all logic and science out the window, perform magic.

Also how bad your components are.

Actually, one of those guys featured in the video has posted to this forum before. The president of the audiophile group, I think. The one shown at the 8:00 to 8:15 mark, among other sections in the video. He started a couple threads a year or two ago. Didn't end well.

One of his thread topics was an assertion regarding the superiority (in terms of accuracy, not simply preference) of vinyl over CD/digital. He posted about a group gathering where they compared vinyl selections to CD, in a "blind" fashion and a majority of the group, predictably, chose vinyl over CD, exactly as he had already believed.

There were some obvious flaws with the way the comparisons were done. One that I found most telling was from a series of videos related to this event. In it, you see him leave the room for the duration of one of the two playback format listening sessions. But for the other playback format, at one point he comes back to join the group who are listening, sits down with them, lingering for a while, smiling and relaxing.

One guess as to which one he stuck around for.

We already know there are many listeners who prefer sound of vinyl to CD anyway. I am not sure what he was trying to prove. I don't think anyone argues that CD will sound better for everyone. It is a subjective preference. One may like the sound of vinyl better and vinyl surely sounds different for the most part.

All true, but he was also asserting that vinyl is the more technically accurate medium. You know, the old "digital samples = parts missing vs continuous analog wave" canard.

I will again join the discussion to ask for proof of the of the bolded statements. Link please.


$4k? Here we go with the dollar amounts again. "Magic" and "$$$".... always the crutch to lean on. No one is saying spend $4K, no one but you is talking about "magic". How long before we hear "snake oil" and "kool aid" again? It's like a mantra in here.


Many speaker builders that make a LIVING making speakers, use upscale cabling. I am considering one from a company that supplies kits and does design work for many other companies. He is very busy, successful, and has won many awards. He choses to use JPS cabling internally, it isn't a marketing ploy and it isn't to "alter" the FR.

BTW Tess are you aware that there are easily available devices on the market to accurately measure the DC resistance, capacitance, etc of any piece of wire, INCLUDING the reptilian based fatty acid enhanced cables from JPS?

Tell you what, send me one of your cables with the anti-physical law properties and I will send it back along with the cable specs and of course publish them here alongside the same type of specs from the 12 awg exterior lighting cables from Lowe's. The same length detail for detail.

Suppose you have two completely different speakers (different drivers, different crossovers, different cabinet shape, etc.) that measure in-room very close to identically in every parameter that we know how to measure. And they cost exactly the same. Would you listen before deciding which pair to purchase? Why or why not?

Sure. Out of curiosity to see if they will really sound identical if for no other reason.