2-Channel Analog Interconnects/Speaker Cables - Page 20

The question was posed, who would buy these? Skywalker Sound! With the blessing of three of their engineers. Take note that SS contacted MIT, not the other way around.

As for $5 worth of parts, I don't believe that. Nor is there any proof that the cable in the pic is $39k. Or are ALL of their cables $39k?

Many highly regarded speaker manufacturers consider choice of cabling in their designs, along with various passives in the XO that, while measuring the same, give varying subjective listening results to the designer. Some even go so far as to use different kinds of solder in various parts of the speaker design.

This isn't in the same vein (marketing) as Roger Russel does with his speakers, installing 'exotic wallet drainers' cables used to placate cable believers just to sell speakers, which I find rather hypocritical.

"As for $5 worth of parts, I don't believe that."

R001K14W 1.0kohm 1/4W 5% Carbon Film Resistor 10/pk .10/pk 1000 pks
$ 100.00

This is from one of my suppliers. The parts are identical to the 1/4 w resistors in the MIT box. Please note- 100.00 for 10,000 resistors

C039UPF 0.039uF 100V Polyester Film Capacitors 1 ea $ 0.11 1000pcs
$ 110.00

Off the shelf parts are NOT expensive. There are about 100 parts in the pic. The most expensive part is the extruded aluminum enclosure.

I buy enclosures and have them customized so I KNOW the pricing.

Is that cable in the picture $39k, as stated? Are the parts you mention used in the build? This sounds like speculation to me.

You should never use Skywalker sound as an example of what others should do.

They are in the MARKETING business. They have to sell their business to people that are exactly they intelligent audio science crowd. Simply put you do not put monoprice cables in that kind of business where everything you do marketed. Its all about preception and zero about science in that situation.

I have engineers too and we know which client to sell the 250K server or the 50K server too Trust me, its a profit game when you are good at it.

For all those still living the dark world thinking we can not measure timbre, etc.

Will you please, please, please start educating yourselves.

http://sound.media.mit.edu/Papers/kdm-comhear98.pdf

Trust me there isnt anything you guys can hear that doesnt show up in some meaurement.

This new Kosmix thing is annoying.

I don't know what it is I have not tried it either.

anyways...

Here was my topic on "What can't we measure" a while back....


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...042&highlight=

The data matters....


http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/c...ceoff-2-page-6

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/c...ceoff-2-page-7

I agree that SS spams the heck out of their THX thing. I don't see the point in using the gear they do just for marketing purposes, though. The gear mentioned in this thread isn't talked about by them directly and are not exactly household names. I don't think that the name "MIT" helps Skywalker Sound sell anything, the opposite in fact.

I picture in my mind... somebody running down the Best Buy and asking to hear the latest Chord Electronics amplifier.

C'mon!

Why does MIT even promote that their cables are used at Skywalker? Its the same reason B&W promotes that Skywalker has their speakers. Skywalker loves it because its free promotion. Adds talking about MIT in them will have "Skywalker" in the ad too...perfect. It sells because when you are some music guy that knows squat about science and you are dropping huge $$$ at skywalker you want to see all the great bling and name brands there.


Its extremely important if you have an idea about marketing.

Its a HUGE promotion for them because every uneducationed audiophile will post online "Hey Skywalker uses them so they must be awesome"..... Its priceless and endless promotion. No new adds needed, just the same link could pay 100 fold over many, many years.

Yes if I ran Skywalker I would do the same thing, its the same reason I wouldn't pick up someone looking to spend $100K with my business in a honda at the airport

Hang on, what's up here?? YOU make some sort of 'winning point' (never articulated) by smugly claiming nukes and satellites have their cables cryoed...reverse your stance on one (well done BTW, there are many who can never admit being wrong) yet come back with an answer like this??

So, I presume you are standing by the satellite claim?? For sure, why not give the link (after all you have it, should be interesting to read).

You want me to guess why they would be cryoed?? Guess number one. It is NOT for audio reasons. Guess number two, they are going to operate at extremely low temperatures, so it would behoove the manufacturers and designers of these extremely expensive craft to ensure that things can operate within design parameters at 'cryo temperatures'. Guess three, it is NOT for audio reasons, nor to clean the quantums of the electrons in the signal.

So, do you always just throw out these counter claims (like you did with the cryo cables) yet are completely unprepared to substantiate your claim?? Is that how it works here??



already answered. You could help the science along tho, by showing them that science does not have the answers by passing a properly conducted DBT, instead of 'just sayin science don't know'.

HOW do you know science does not know??

Because they simply believe their ears

They forget how powerful the subconscious part of their brain is

I geddit!

well, no I don't. Just because someone says it, it does not make it true does it?? We all know this bit of common sense don't we?

So that means there MUST be some external source of proof, you can't just say 'newtons law of gravity is incomplete' in 1890 and then walk away...you gotta have something to back it up.

Same here, and it IS something an audiophile can do at home with the help of his friends. We all know what that is.

Looking forward to reading all about the cryo-ing of satellite cables, thanks tess.

That is the kicker, audiophiles do not need "some external source of proof"

Hearing it in an uncontrolled listening test is so convincing that its hard to force them to look at it other ways.

Its the same reason the acai berry health supplements market grew 500% last year

you mean something other than it is 'berry good for them''?

I see parallels with quantum or relativity theory, every year these scientists get hundreds of letters from 'educated laymen' which show/prove/assert that einstein got it wrong and relativity is incorrect.

For sure, both these theories completely violate 'common sense and experience', but honestly, who am I to have the depth of knowledge and understanding to disprove it?? (

But, if you are an audiophile, then it is de rigour to think you know more than science, have the depth and breadth of knowledge to show all the experiments ever carried out contain a fatal flaw that hint to theories not even begun to be conceived of by the people in the field.


I mean, the arrogance quite frankly is breathtaking!

All because 'I hear it, and I (and I alone) cannot be fooled by my own biases, I am completely aware of every unconscious bias I have and account for them'.

In other words, all because 'I am an audiophile'.

Why NOT do some testing with a degree of rigour?? You WILL learn tons! You may learn you are completely correct and that science DOES have more to learn, you can contribute to the knowledge base of humanity.

Or you may be surprised to find out how powerful our biases really are.

Either way, is not life most fun when we are learning?? I don't understand the 'anti find out' viewpoint.

NASA or anyone planning on putting anything into orbit DOES subject the components and final structure to extreme temperatures, vibration, and does extensive voltage / current consumption tests among thousands of others.

The purpose of these tests is NOT to alter the atomic structure of existing components (like wire) but to be sure that they will work as designed. Semiconductors have "extremes of temp" limitations where they cease to function as designed or become unreliable. These are even listed in the vanilla parts lists of electronic components available to everyone. The extreme cold can cause some mechanical parts to become very brittle and fracture easily (insulation on wire for instance). This is why components in areas that are or MAY be exposed to the extremes are tested. This includes susceptibility to UV, Xray, etc.

Vibration is another issue and all components are subjected to serious low frequency shaker tables.

Has anyone ever SEEN the "audiophile" method of cryogenically treating cable and done an electron microscope metallurgical analysis before and after? That is the ONLY way to see what if anything has been done.
Of course, a true scientific analysis will also include extensive electrical testing before and after. But we all just KNOW that was done, don't we?

Ummmmm, yea.

Yeah, I see your point. Of course marketing plays into this. But I don't think it is fair to say that marketing is the only reason these brands were chosen. Performance comes into play here as well. Do you think they sat around the mahogany boardroom table and made the executive decision to use the brands they do based on pulling the wool over uneducated "audiophool" eyes?

I have heard Chord CDP & amp/MIT/B&W combo before, it was a seriously good system.

Wow.

I never made the claim that cryoed cables are sonically superior, nor that space satellites and nuclear warhead triggers use cryoed cables for superior "sound".

I did ask why this is said to be done.

that's a good word tess, I'll grab it.

WOW...no you did not say anything about superior sound, but you DID bring it up. I asked you why it was relevant to an audio forum, we are all waiting.

you asked ME why it was, so I made a few rough off the cuff guesses of why it would make sense to cryo cables intended to work in space at extremely low temperatures.

But again, can you give the link (would be interesting nevertheless)? and could you explain what earthly (haha) relevance satellites have to audio cables.

the smirking and weaving from you is not looking too good. If you just decided to throw it in but had no real idea about it fine, just admit it and we'll all move on.

Smugness, smirking and weaving. Hmmm... honestly, I don't feel inclined to answer your question. I would've been happy to have a decent conversation about it, but that doesn't seem to be forthcoming.

CVool. But that makes me wonder why you answered in the following manner when I asked you for the links (as I did not know anything about it) and why you answered the way you did when I asked you what relevance it had to audio.


So, I actually do not feel you were willing to have a conversation, in fact you did everything to stop it happening.

But, let's put the past aside and start afresh OK? Can you give the link (you thought it interesting enough to raise) and can you explain what relevance cryoing cables intended for use in space has for audio.

Just to clarify, you are NOT smug, you are NOT weaving nor are you smirking.

So let's have that conversation yeah?

Fair enough. No need to patronize me, though. Honestly, I thought the gyroscope comment by you was an attempt to poke fun at me. I am a little thin skinned after several months of posting in AVS, this place is not the most friendly forum in which to express your opinion, even though cables are a highly opinionated topic. Name calling and pack mentality abounds in here.

My apologies to you for coming off the way I did.

Keep in mind that I do not have an opinion on this either way, I bring this to the forum for discussion only. Ok, and maybe for some comic relief. Anyway, maybe there is something to what this guy says, maybe he is full of beans. I'll leave that up to you guys, ok?

http://cgi.ebay.com/1M-Pair-Industri...ht_2738wt_1165

http://home.comcast.net/~jafix/interconnect.html

Cool. It really does work better (I agree) when there is no sly nasty innuendos etc. The gyroscope, really that was just to show 'just because the space shuttle has it does not mean we need it for stereo' in the sense that IF satellites and nukes had their cables cryo-ed it has nothing to do with audio. Ie, gyros have nothing to do with audio, cryoed cables in the shuttle have nothing to do with audio.

but I get how you could take it the wrong way.

no wuckas, and vice versa

thanks for the links, will look later tonight.

I would need a more credible source for this than was posted.

Lol, "KICK @$$ SOUND".

Ok, it has been awhile since I have read this link. I see now the wire he uses is not cryoed for use in space, he does it at home and sells the stuff. I thought that the stuff was cryoed for space, too.

At least the price isn't out of this world. Space humor.

My real interest in this guy is the measurements he performs. I cannot interpret all of the data, so I brought it here.

"I would suggest you test the prototype thoroughly with two different cables just to make sure it works."

I do serious testing on everything I build. This is a very simple system that uses high speed analog audio switch ICs, NAND gates (digital logic) switching power supplies, and even gold flashed connectors to make every one happy.

There are no buffer amplifiers or filters of any kind.

There are no analog variable components in the system at all including the listener interfaces. The "match" indicators use bicolored LEDs and there is a dual counter as well to track each correct or incorrect answer vs the number of flip flops executed by the system which also uses a random number generator to determine the timing between flip flops (cable exchange).

Yes the parts in the pic can easily be identified and although the resistance values may be different, the size , construction and pricing are identical.

The sleeving on the cables can be bought at Allied Electronics, Mouser, Digikey, etc EVERYBODY stocks the PCB parts but my supplier is quite low cost on qty. purchasing.

There are lots of manufacturers who build custom aluminum enclosures. I get mine in black and green anodized finished from Context Engineering for about 15.00 per box and they are larger than the ones used by MIT. (but then I actually have working circuitry in mine.)