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2-Channel Analog Interconnects/Speaker Cables - Page 30

post #871 of 1116
Ok Blue Jeans and Monoprice are deemed more than good enough.What about the ones that come in the box with a new cd player etc...?

I used to have Blue Jeans analog interconnects(worked great etc...) but I have lost them some how.Am I missing out on anything with these out of the box type cables for now?
post #872 of 1116
They will work just fine.
post #873 of 1116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmologist View Post

They will work just fine.

Under 30MPH, so will the spare in your trunk.
post #874 of 1116
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpjibberjabber View Post

Under 30MPH, so will the spare in your trunk.

All the tires on your car come with SPECS so you know what to expect from them.

I have yet to see a MAGIC tire but I suppose it's just a matter of time.
post #875 of 1116
How many years in the professional audio visual business do you have?
post #876 of 1116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmologist View Post

How many years in the professional audio visual business do you have?

Prior to exiting the business for greener pastures a year ago, 13.

So, that means not only do I have some basis for my comments, but I also have no horse in this race other than the truth.
post #877 of 1116
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpjibberjabber View Post

but I also have no horse in this race other than the truth.

Too bad your version of the truth is often not necessary always the actual truth.
post #878 of 1116
Well said.

BTW Jib, I started professionally in '69. Several (hundreds) rather high dollar operations and clients. Responsible for millions in equipment spec, purchase, design and installation, servicing and operation.

I think that gives me a bit of an edge in understanding the ins and outs (no pun intended).
post #879 of 1116
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpjibberjabber View Post

Prior to exiting the business for greener pastures a year ago, 13.

So, that means not only do I have some basis for my comments, but I also have no horse in this race other than the truth.

Or, could it possibly mean that you've become bitter at having to leave the field due to a lack of high enough or consistent enough income? Perhaps you've decided that at least some of the blame should be directed at the internet, both for it's impact upon the industry from a sales competition standpoint and for the freer flow of information it makes available to all, including sometimes contradictory information to what those in the audiophile industry are espousing.

As a result, hobbyists are now both much more benefit conscious and also less automatically reliant upon (and willing to pay) the insular "audiophile guru" class to spoon-feed them what's good for them.

Speculation, of course, as I have no way of knowing what's in your mind and heart. But since you are in the habit of drawing speculative conclusions about the motivations of those you disagree with, I'm sure you wouldn't mind if I tried my hand at it too.
post #880 of 1116
Are we still at it?

I thought we'd be wrapping things up by now.

But bantering back and forth is fun I guess while we wait for some actual test results from acceptable test equipment approved by both camps.

Carry on, gentlemen.

I shall await the outcome with bated breath.

post #881 of 1116
Quote:
Originally Posted by lodit View Post

while we wait for some actual test results from acceptable test equipment approved by both camps.

fat chance!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lodit View Post

I shall await the outcome with bated breath.


just don't hold your breath !
post #882 of 1116
Quote:
Originally Posted by lodit View Post

Are we still at it?

I thought we'd be wrapping things up by now.

But bantering back and forth is fun I guess while we wait for some actual test results from acceptable test equipment approved by both camps.

Carry on, gentlemen.

I shall await the outcome with bated breath.


I take it that

"Effects of Cable, Loudspeaker,and Amplifier Interactions" by
Fred E. Davis, J.AudioEng.Soc., Vol.39, No.6, 1991 June

isn't good enough?
post #883 of 1116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

I take it that

"Effects of Cable, Loudspeaker,and Amplifier Interactions" by
Fred E. Davis, J.AudioEng.Soc., Vol.39, No.6, 1991 June

isn't good enough?

I'm sorry - that article conflicts with my belief system - therefore the article is clearly wrong.
post #884 of 1116
all you people with your fancy book learnin'.
post #885 of 1116
So long story short.

There is no measurable difference between inexpensive and expensive wires of a similar gauge. This translates to no measurable sound difference coming from the speakers. This means that in a properly setup double blind test, you can't hear the difference between cables unless you are psychologically creating the difference.

With that said, the psychological sound difference with having an expensive cable may be enough justification for the cost. When it comes down to it, as the owner of a high-end audio system, what really matters is how it sounds to you. If you decide that spending a large amount on speaker cable is the best upgrade to your system, so be it even if it is just psychological. In reality, you are probably better off spending that money upgrading something else (equipment, speakers, room treatment, etc) but if you truly believe that speaker cable makes your system sound better, more power to you. While you may psychologically think your system sounds better, this doesn't mean there is a quantifiable difference in actual sound. I think there is enough scientific and DBT results to attest that this is true. However, many of you want to justify your purchases and/or want to sell expensive cable/expensive items using cable.

The mind is amazing at creating differences it thinks should be there. For example, one could put the same cable in a crappy jacket delivered in a trash bag and tell you it's worth 1.00$ and another with a stunning jacket in fancy packaging that is told to be worth 1000$ and I guarantee those of you who believe in the benefits of high end cable, will think the stunning jacket/fancy packaging cable sounds better. Do I blame you? No, because it probably really does sound better to you, but at the same time, it doesn't sound any better. We like to justify our purchases in every way possible.

If stroking your mind/ego and buying expensive cable floats your boat, so be it. I honestly hope that you think you can hear the difference.

If you believe that you are the golden eared prodigy and you really can hear the difference, enjoy your million bucks from the challenge, and wrap yourself in your expensive cables at night.

If you are the science minded type who doesn't believe the psychological difference, buy your Monoprice 12g, and save some money.

For all the arguing, scientific facts, what company uses what cable, and what high end audio engineers say, you aren't going to be able to argue through what someones mind is telling them they think they hear. I wish I thought of selling high-end speaker cable 25 years ago
post #886 of 1116
dsl1, you are right......now lets get back to arguing!!!
post #887 of 1116
Talk about letting the wind out of the sails.

BTW I am now selling Acoustic Nirvana Frequency Enhanced Feathered Foul System Eargasm Expansion Systems complete with personalized operation instructions and Zen chants. One application for an HD system is 12,975.00 plus shipping and bird food.

These are designed to be waved over the head in a circle while chanting the Soundstage mantra at midnight on the first full moon of the month.

Our clients will gladly send you their anecdotal affirmations of improvement.
post #888 of 1116
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsl1 View Post

So long story short.

There is no measurable difference between inexpensive and expensive wires of a similar gauge. This translates to no measurable sound difference coming from the speakers. This means that in a properly setup double blind test, you can't hear the difference between cables unless you are psychologically creating the difference.

According to the paper I cited, all of the cables tested introduced a measurable roll-off in high frequencies above 1KHz, but differed by a maximum of only 1/4 of a dbV at 20KHz. Traditional 12 gauge was roughly in the middle of the pack, while flat multiwire cables introduced the least loss. Cable inductance was primarily responsible. Whether anybody can actually distinguish a 0.25 dbV difference at 20KHz is another matter entirely.
post #889 of 1116
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

now lets get back to arguing!!!

Attachment 177301

Attachment 177302

Attachment 177303
LL
LL
LL
post #890 of 1116
All these components and top notch 39 cent switches in the signal path just have to improve the sound quality, and let more of the music through. Odd some claim that the switch in an ABX box will ruin the sound though.
LL
post #891 of 1116
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamZX11 View Post

All these components and top notch 39 cent switches in the signal path just have to improve the sound quality, and let more of the music through. Odd some claim that the switch in an ABX box will ruin the sound though.

Hard to believe that is an actual representation of an MIT network. This is what they really look like inside.

http://www.mitcables.com/

DIY MIT designs:

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/brisson/brisson.html

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/b...brisson_2.html

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/b...brisson_3.html

These are lesser designs than the phony Oracles you have shown. As for the comparison to an ABX box, these are wired in parallel to the signal.
post #892 of 1116
Quote:
Originally Posted by tesseract67 View Post

Hard to believe that is an actual representation of an MIT network. This is what they really look like inside.

It is an MIT network box, and that is what it really looks like. They have had more than one model over the years you know. Gotta keep coming up with new "improved" products to keep the suckers buying.

Quote:


These are lesser designs than the phony Oracles you have shown.

The only thing "phony" about them is MIT's claims of an audible difference. Differences that even thier own staff could not pick out in a DBT.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php...0159.msg539789

Do you actually consider 6 moons reviews credible in any way?

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/m...amica2/ib.html
post #893 of 1116
As I pointed out the last time Tess posted these pics, the resistors on the PCB are 1/4 watt. The rotary switch is rated at about .25 A DC, the caps are in the picofarad range. The most glaring error is the absolutely LOUSY and thoroughly unprofessional wad of miscellaneous wires assembly. Professional circuit designers do all they can to minimize wire runs to keep them as short as possible and harnessed.

BTW, I am willing to bet the wires are simply cheap, off shore, hookup wire- the same as you will see in any cheap electronics gadget.

Since this "device" is admittedly in parallel with the speaker cables and is strictly passive, all it can do is denigrate (attenuate) the higher frequencies thereby making the wire no longer transparent. BTW given the component ratings, IF the PCB is even connected to the speaker lines internally, any reasonable amp will simply fry the components.

Since I am not spending my money on buying this stuff, I will gladly reverse engineer one of these cables and provide a complete circuit path along with the device values free of charge.

I promise not to alter the cable in any way, just map the circuit. Anyone want to send one to me?
I will pay to ship it back.
post #894 of 1116
Quote:
Originally Posted by tesseract67 View Post

Attachment 177301

Attachment 177302

Attachment 177303

When you start posting pictures of cables with "black boxes" that screams Signal coloration!

If I want to alter my sound I will do it the proper way (modify the XO or go active XOs) and not some black box with $10 in circuits priced with a 1000% markup only because audiophiles are not educated on what its actually doing. They just think they have to spend money (nothing new there).
post #895 of 1116
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

When you start posting pictures of cables with "black boxes" that screams Signal coloration!

Maybe, but I have seen measurements of the MIT cables, they didn't alter the signal at all below about 28Khz if I recall. No audible difference.
post #896 of 1116
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamZX11 View Post

Maybe, but I have seen measurements of the MIT cables, they didn't alter the signal at all below about 28Khz if I recall. No audible difference.

So what is the "black Box" doing to create a so called "better" sound?

Why even have circuits involved if they do nothing?
post #897 of 1116
Before packing, these cables are immersed in a bath of Placebo Juice. When you handle them during installation, the dried juice coating is absorbed through the skin and alters your acoustic perceptions. Much like LSD.
post #898 of 1116
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

So what is the "black Box" doing to create a so called "better" sound?

Nothing.

Quote:


Why even have circuits involved if they do nothing?

To make their product different than others, it's called marketing. And you don't think they chose the name MIT by chance do you? They knew it would be associated with a very well respected technical university. Also marketing. I'm surprised they were never sued.
post #899 of 1116
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamZX11 View Post

Nothing.



To make their product different than others, it's called marketing. You don't think they chose the name MIT by chance do you? They knew it would be associated with a very well respected university. Also marketing. I'm surprised they were never sued.


Catchy name aside, I actually thought the measurements of the black boxes did show sound coloration.

I can not buy engineers designing something KNOWING its all a marketing scam (not everyone is hired for Marketing skills). The lid would have been blown off it bigger then the minority constantly reminding people its BS.
post #900 of 1116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmologist View Post

Before packing, these cables are immersed in a bath of Placebo Juice. When you handle them during installation, the dried juice coating is absorbed through the skin and alters your acoustic perceptions. Much like LSD.

if that was actually true then I would EASILY pay $1K for cables. Nothing better then a good LSD trip
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