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SA/Cisco 8*** series DVR's Tips and tricks using Cox's Passport Echo software - Page 8

post #211 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post

I don't know how often you check to see what's on CSPAN, but you can still tune to the channel even if you blocked it from the guide. You can then use Info-Info to scroll through what's on all day, etc.

Yes, but it won't show up if I'm using channel up-down to scroll through the channels, which is something I often do. And I don't want to have to scroll through all the home-shopping and on-demand channels, so I spent the time to try to set up the "skip" function, which is (otherwise) really neat!

Not an earth-shaking problem, just an instance where the box doesn't do what a user would reasonably expect it to do.
post #212 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan_CoxPHX View Post

I have seen several posts saying Cox made an agreement to continue Analog broadcasts for 3 years from the date of the digital transition. Do you have a source?

Meaning Cox would continue Analog (at least the local broadcasts, depending on how you interpret the language) until spring/summer 2012.

Good chance it will vary from franchise to franchise. My source (in San Diego) says it's not etched in stone, but they're aiming for Q3 of 2011. They will provide a low-cost converter free of charge, so technically they will still be providing an analog signal. But a different person told me SDV was scheduled first, so who knows? I'm just repeating what friends/neighbors who work in Cox marketing tell me. Nothing official.
post #213 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-on-Mrng-Vsta View Post

Not an earth-shaking problem, just an instance where the box doesn't do what a user would reasonably expect it to do.

Any wager on how many other cableco's do what Cox does here, map stations to more than one channel?
post #214 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-on-Mrng-Vsta View Post

But the channels I was dealing with -- 2, 8, and 94 -- are not analog, they are the digital versions that the 8300HD box tunes. In fact, there isn't an NTSC channel 94 on Cox cable any more.

Channels 2 and 8 are indeed analog NTSC. Channel 94 is the QAM ATSC equivalent of 8. Plug your cable directly into your TV. It will tune 2 and 8 on 57MHz and 183MHz respectively. Cox sends its "Starter" and "Expanded" tiers in both analog and digital streams - analog for NTSC TVs, and digital for it's STBs that don't have analog tuners, like the 8240HDC DVR. Once the analog tiers go away, so will your dilemma.
post #215 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by domino92024 View Post

Channels 2 and 8 are indeed analog NTSC. Channel 94 is the QAM ATSC equivalent of 8. Plug your cable directly into your TV. It will tune 2 and 8 on 57MHz and 183MHz respectively. Cox sends its "Starter" and "Expanded" tiers in both analog and digital streams - analog for NTSC TVs, and digital for it's STBs that don't have analog tuners, like the 8240HDC DVR. Once the analog tiers go away, so will your dilemma.

I think I know what you are trying to say, but the channels Ron is seeing are not analog (we know they pass both versions down the cable and the cutomer gets whichever they need). Ch 8/94 for him (and anyone with a receiver, 8240 or otherwise) is QAM 699.000 and 2/124 is 591.000. Since these appear to be the only channels mapped this way, to 2 different numbers, there is no guarantee his specific problem will go away with analogs. If they have to map them to different "digital" numbers now, I would think they'd have to do it that way then too, unless that specific reason also goes away at the same time or earlier.
post #216 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post

... Ch 8/94 for him (and anyone with a receiver, 8240 or otherwise) is QAM 699.000 and 2/124 is 591.000.

Correct. Originally -- e.g., in Dec.2005, when I bought my Sony HDTV and got my first Cox DVR -- when we tuned channel 8, our DVR picked up that NTSC signal Cox was sending on channel 8, but several months ago, Cox remapped the channels for the SA boxes so everything (except channel 94) we looked at using the boxes was a digital signal.

I just rescanned the channels on my Sony set, and I can certainly see the analog 8, but the signal we receive when we select channel 8 on a Cox SA STB or DVR is a 480i signal my Sony's QAM tuner reports as 103.5. (The Sony now doesn't see an NTSC signal at channel 94, and from the screen shot posted below by Bryan, it's apparent that "channel 94" is being sent in the range that corresponds to cable channel 8: 180-186 mHz.)
post #217 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-on-Mrng-Vsta View Post

But the channels I was dealing with -- 2, 8, and 94 -- are not analog, they are the digital versions that the 8300HD box tunes. In fact, there isn't an NTSC channel 94 on Cox cable any more.


Actually, In Phoenix Channel 8 is KAET SD Digital



-----------------------------------------------------------------
While Channel 94 is KAET SD Analog, Channel 94 is where Cox broadcasts the TVGOS (TV Guide On Screen) Data for Analog NTSC TVGOS equipped devices, like my Panasonic DMR-EH50S

You cannot Tune In to Channel 94 with a Digital Only STB/DVR, 8240HDC/4240HDC.


LL
LL
post #218 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan_CoxPHX View Post

Actually, In Phoenix Channel 8 is KAET SD Digital

-----------------------------------------------------------------
While Channel 94 is KAET SD Analog, Channel 94 is where Cox broadcasts the TVGOS (TV Guide On Screen) Data for Analog NTSC TVGOS equipped devices, like my Panasonic DMR-EH50S

You cannot Tune In to Channel 94 with a Digital Only STB/DVR, 8240HDC/4240HDC.

Here's what I see:

Passport on my 8300HD right now is showing the same QAM data for both 8 and 94.

I have 3 TVs connected direct to cable without a Cox receiver. None of them tune to analog 94, but they all tune to both analog 8 and digital 8. If 94 is analog, I can't explain that. I no longer have a strictly analog TV to test.

If 8 and 94 were different frequencies (through my receiver with Passport), it seems improbable that what affects one would affect the other, such as adding one to the Skip List for guide display or selecting one for recording.

I'm not saying anyone is wrong, just that things appear to be different right now depending on which receiver/software one has. The bottom line remains though, nothing guarantees that Ron's guide display problem will go away with analogs.
post #219 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post

If 94 is analog, I can't explain that.

That "94" is really 8, based on the "183 MHz". I had been thinking all the mappings were digital, but this seems to be an analog mapping.

As Dave said,although my 8300HD does have an analog tuner, when I tune 8 or 94 I'm seeing a 480i signal on 669 MHz.

N.B.: I just marked 94 as "skipped" -- which makes sense because it no longer has an advantage in allowing me to hear DVS -- and it didn't affect 8 -- 8 is not in the skipped list, but 94 is. The only channels that I have seen tied together, skipping-wise, are 2 & 124.
post #220 of 597
With a Cardinals game followed by an MLB post-season game (trying to avoid that spam link here), I have had lots of chances to admire the SA 8300HD box's tendency to slip into what I call the "5 second delay". The actual number of seconds may vary, but it's quite noticeable if you have two Cox SA boxes that can tune the HD channels. Here's a sampling of how to observe the delay:

(1) On a Cox SA8300HD with Passport Echo, tune to a program on a channel, call it channel "A". Use PIP to check the channel the other tuner is on, call it channel "B". It needs to be a different channel, not the same number or "mapped" to the same channel.

(2A) Turn the SA box off for a couple of seconds, then turn it back on (this assumes your SA box is set to power-on to the "Last Channel".

or

(2B) Use PIP to swap to channel "B", then swap back to "A".

or

(2C) Directly tune the SA box to channel "B", watch it for a couple of seconds, then switch it back to your channel "A".

or

(2D) Switch to 1999 to check diagnostic screens, then switch back to "A". (I'm counting this as different from 2C because 1999 isn't really a channel that uses a tuner.)

If the program you are watching on "A" has dialog at the time you switch away from it, then when you switch back you may even hear a repeat of some of the dialog you already heard.

Note that 2B and 2C are things a viewer might reasonably be expected to do, such as to check on another game on another channel.

Unfortunately, when you have entered the 5-second delay zone, pressing the "Live" button on the remote will not eject you from the zone.

To escape from the 5-second delay zone:

(3) Switch away from "A" to a different channel, not "B", and back to "A". Unfortunately, you will not be able to do this if you are recording the program on "A" -- that is, if you are recording the program you can only get back to watching the program live by stopping the recording momentarily and switching away and back.

I have a feeling there may be other ways to enter the zone, because many times when I turn on the other set, I find that I have asked the 8300HD to delay the channel I'm watching, but I'm not sure what magic I applied to accomplish that. And there may be other ways to escape from it: I just usually tune down one channel and back up. You just have to force that first tuner to clear its cache/buffer.

In the days of rabbit ears, we just didn't know how much fun we were missing, did we?
post #221 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-on-Mrng-Vsta View Post

That "94" is really 8, based on the "183 MHz". I had been thinking all the mappings were digital, but this seems to be an analog mapping.

As Dave said,although my 8300HD does have an analog tuner, when I tune 8 or 94 I'm seeing a 480i signal on 669 MHz.

N.B.: I just marked 94 as "skipped" -- which makes sense because it no longer has an advantage in allowing me to hear DVS -- and it didn't affect 8 -- 8 is not in the skipped list, but 94 is. The only channels that I have seen tied together, skipping-wise, are 2 & 124.

I'm perplexed. Just yesterday I scheduled a recording on 8 and it also highlighted 94, just like 2/124 did when I tested them. I reversed it and 8 got highlighted. When I set one to skip, the other was added to the list and vice versa. Now, none of that happens. I even used the same show, "Doc Martin".

The only 2 that still work in tandem are 2/124. I have them both at 591.000 and there are no 8 analog TVGOS shenanigans involved. Here I agree the problem goes away when analogs go away, so I guess your problem will be solved then.

What is really frustrating is I don't even care about any of this, I skip them all. Only jumped in because you know I like a nice puzzle. I do need new glasses bad, so maybe I was seeing what I wanted to see.

EDIT: I still show 8/94 both as 669.000.
post #222 of 597
Just had my first reboot and even that is a big improvement. Instead of wondering what is going on or staring at PowerTV, you get a rather nice Passport display with a status bar showing how the reboot is progressing. And, it doesn't take near as long to complete. Of course, I'd rather not have them, but I was pressing a bunch of buttons quickly.
post #223 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post

... I skip them all.

And I'm going to skip 8 now. I wanted to skip all the channels that were SD and had HD counterparts; I had just left 8 as un-skipped because I thought it was a special case and wondered how it would be handled.

I know some people still pick programs out of the guide and mark them to be recorded, and may stumble onto channel 8 that way. If there's any strange behavior associated with certain channels, it may jump up and bite them. These boxes are rather complex as is, and anything that makes them more confusing can be a problem.
post #224 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post


EDIT: I still show 8/94 both as 669.000.

Will you post a Pic of Channel 94 Diag Screen?

As soon as the Kids stop coming for candy I will go next door and check out the neighbors 8300HD and take a pic.
post #225 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan_CoxPHX View Post

Will you post a Pic of Channel 94 Diag Screen?

As soon as the Kids stop coming for candy I will go next door and check out the neighbors 8300HD and take a pic.

I will, but it will have to be tomorrow, got recordings going until later tonight and I'll be in bed by then. If you get yours posted first, I'll let you know if they are the same.

And, if mine changes between now and then, I'm going to shoot this box. I don't believe software can do 2 different things, so I must be mistake about what I did yesterday.
post #226 of 597
Tried to get what was wanted -- tuned my 8300HD to ch. 94, put a music channel in the PIP window.
LL
post #227 of 597
With both tuners tuned to 94 on an 8300HD w/ Passport. Channel 94 in PIP window.
sorry for the poor quality image.




LL
LL
post #228 of 597
OK -- had to turn off Parental Controls -- which I thought I had already accomplished -- to get that Tuning screen to show anything interesting.
Had 94 on both tuners -- did this really fast -- not sure what caused the delta-T effect. Must be my 5-second delay phenomenon. Don't recall which profile (left- or right-) came first. Didn't record this show, so can't run it back to check. Doesn't really matter anyway -- just a curiosity.

I had tuned to 94, but the screen here shows 008.
and both tuners showed 669 MHz.
Good grief! Is it Monday already?!
LL
LL
LL
post #229 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post

I think I know what you are trying to say, but the channels Ron is seeing are not analog (we know they pass both versions down the cable and the cutomer gets whichever they need). Ch 8/94 for him (and anyone with a receiver, 8240 or otherwise) is QAM 699.000 and 2/124 is 591.000. Since these appear to be the only channels mapped this way, to 2 different numbers, there is no guarantee his specific problem will go away with analogs. If they have to map them to different "digital" numbers now, I would think they'd have to do it that way then too, unless that specific reason also goes away at the same time or earlier.

You are missing what I am saying. Once Cox drops analog, there will be no reason to simulcast CSPAN on channel 2 & 124, or KAET on channel 8 & 94. Those channels are on channels 2 & 8 respectively only so they are received by analog TVs. And once 2 & 8 are gone, so will be Ron-on-Mrng-Vsta's problem. Cox is sending an analog and digital version of its analog tiers to its STB. Whether the 8300 DVR tunes the analog or digital version is quite irrelevant.
post #230 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by domino92024 View Post

Those channels are on channels 2 & 8 respectively only so they are received by analog TVs.

I thought that might be behind what you were saying. Another interpretation is that the channel numbers 2-99 are there for people who prefer SD signals rather than HD. That won't necessarily go away with the demise of analog, although I realize there would seem to be a correlation. If Cox has announced that SD will go away when analog goes away, then that settles it. I just don't assume that to be the case.
post #231 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ View Post

EDIT: I still show 8/94 both as 669.000.

I thought the original "problem" was with channel 2? I'll bet that both 2 and 8 are reported as analog when the cable is plugged directly into the TV. Whether the STB tunes the analog or digital signal is irrelevant to the original problem.
post #232 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-on-Mrng-Vsta View Post

Tried to get what was wanted -- tuned my 8300HD to ch. 94, put a music channel in the PIP window.

Try scrolling up one to the "TUNING" page.
post #233 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-on-Mrng-Vsta View Post

I thought that might be behind what you were saying. Another interpretation is that the channel numbers 2-99 are there for people who prefer SD signals rather than HD. That won't necessarily go away with the demise of analog, although I realize there would seem to be a correlation. If Cox has announced that SD will go away when analog goes away, then that settles it. I just don't assume that to be the case.

There are plenty of SD signals in the 100s, 200s, 300s, etc. But they are digital. The analog channels contained in 2-99 are there simply for the old "analog only" customers. [I still use them with my VCRs.] The digital SD channels in the 100s, 200s, 300s, etc., will not go away. Just the analog NTSC channels.
post #234 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-on-Mrng-Vsta View Post

OK -- had to turn off Parental Controls -- which I thought I had already accomplished -- to get that Tuning screen to show anything interesting.

Had 94 on both tuners -- did this really fast -- not sure what caused the delta-T effect. Must be my 5-second delay phenomenon. Don't recall which profile (left- or right-) came first. Didn't record this show, so can't run it back to check. Doesn't really matter anyway -- just a curiosity.

and both tuners showed 669 MHz.
Good grief! Is it Monday already?!

Seems strange Channel 94 is Analog in my area and digital in yours.

If you have a Digital Only receiver 4240HDC or 8240HDC, Tune to 94 and see if there is a picture. Mine, both have a blank screens.
post #235 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan_CoxPHX View Post

Seems strange Channel 94 is Analog in my area and digital in yours.

But remember, there is no channel 94 in my area -- it's just a mapped copy of analog 8.

I don't have a digital-tuner-only STB/DVR, but on my 3250HD, which still has SARA, I'm 99%-sure that when I tune 94, I'm seeing Cox's analog 8. Will check the diag. screen on the 3250HD if I have some time (and can remember/figure out how).

I have been trying to figure out if there was some option (preference) I have set that would cause my DVR to decide to do that mapping -- can't think of anything of course. There just don't seem to be any user-selectable options that could affect the way the box tunes the signals. Any ideas?

Edit: I meant, above, that there is no channel 94 for anyone on cox's signal. When I tune 94 on my 8300HD, I'm seeing the same thing I see when I tune 8: a 480i version of 8, identical because it's exactly the same signal (RF-wise). But as I found, below, with my SARA-based 3250HD STB, when I tune 94, I am seeing the analog version of 8 from Cox's array of NTSC channels (again, the "exact same" RF signal).
post #236 of 597
I got that diag screen -- this is how my 3250HD box (which still has SARA firmware) tunes 94:

So, it's analog, but it's 183MHz, so it's just Cox's analog 8. (I already know there's no actual analog 94 on the coax from Cox, based on what I see when I use the Sony's internal tuners and scan/try to tune the signal.)
LL
post #237 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by domino92024 View Post

There are plenty of SD signals in the 100s, 200s, 300s, etc. But they are digital. The analog channels contained in 2-99 are there simply for the old "analog only" customers. [I still use them with my VCRs.] The digital SD channels in the 100s, 200s, 300s, etc., will not go away. Just the analog NTSC channels.

Well, there are digital versions of those channels in 2-99, and some of them are for "everyone", not just owners of analog sets, because they are the only way we (when we use Cox's STBs/DVRs) can see channels like CNN-Headline News. But I realize, after I have gone thru and skipped all the channels, 2-99, that had counterparts in 100+, that there are only a handful of channels that would still have to be moved or mapped.

Unfortunately, when Cox prepares to move that handful of channels, there will have to be an overlap period when they do the mapping, similar to 2/124, and the way the firmware is working now, that can cause confusion for (some) users -- luckily for me, it seems that those channels are ones I don't usually record.

Note that with the Weather Channel, I have to watch Cox's channel 70, not their HD 770, if I want to see my "Local on the 8s" -- the local radar, stats and forecast. But I expect that Cox will be able to support the local info on their HD version before analog goes away, so their 70 isn't something I'll have to pay attention to, much longer.
post #238 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by domino92024 View Post

You are missing what I am saying. Once Cox drops analog, there will be no reason to simulcast CSPAN on channel 2 & 124, or KAET on channel 8 & 94. Those channels are on channels 2 & 8 respectively only so they are received by analog TVs. And once 2 & 8 are gone, so will be Ron-on-Mrng-Vsta's problem. Cox is sending an analog and digital version of its analog tiers to its STB. Whether the 8300 DVR tunes the analog or digital version is quite irrelevant.

I did admit that in a later post, but now that I think about it some more, I'm not so sure. I agree 8/94 are not the problem I thought they were and for some reason Passport is reporting 669.000 when it appears to really be 183.000. I swear I got the same results with them as I did when I tested 2/124, but I appear to be mistaken.

Anyway, can't you see that 2/124 is a different story that has little to do with analog? Channel 2 is the only analog channel that has a digital counterpart mapped to two different digital channels, 2 and 124. Unlike any other analog channel, there is an analog 2, a digital 2 and a digital 124. The only reason I can see to map it that way is because they want it to show up on 2 for all customers and also on 124 to group it with the two other CSPAN channels on 125/126 for digital customers.

After analogs go away, it will still need to show up on 2 for the old analog customers with the free converter boxes and those who use clear QAM-capable TVs. If they simply turn off analog 2 along with the rest of the analogs, CSPAN will still show up on digital 2 and 124. The only way I can see that changing is if they decide to no longer offer CSPAN to those customers or no longer display it with 125/126.
post #239 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by domino92024 View Post

I thought the original "problem" was with channel 2? I'll bet that both 2 and 8 are reported as analog when the cable is plugged directly into the TV.

What does that have to do with anything? We already know all channels 2-70 will be reported as analog when plugged directly in the TV and digital when using a box. The "only" remaining problem is that there is an analog 2 on 2 at 57.000 and a digital 2 on both 2 and 124 at 591.000. When analog 2 at 57.000 goes away, 2/124 at 591.000 will still be there. That is what you don't seem to want to accept. The only reason for 124 is to display CSPAN alongside the other two CSPANs in the guide, as near as I can see it has nothing whatsoever to do with analog. The only way 2 goes completely away is if Cox decides to no longer offer CSPAN as part of the "Starter" tier, and I don't see that happening. So, Ron will still have to look at 2 and 124 in his guide, a minor irritant he'd rather not have to do.

This is different than 8/94. When analog 8 goes away, there will be no need for 94 and we will be left with only digital 8. Of course, even this assumes TVGOS will work with just the single 8.
post #240 of 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-on-Mrng-Vsta View Post

I got that diag screen -- this is how my 3250HD box (which still has SARA firmware) tunes 94:

So, it's analog, but it's 183MHz, so it's just Cox's analog 8. (I already know there's no actual analog 94 on the coax from Cox, based on what I see when I use the Sony's internal tuners and scan/try to tune the signal.)

I thought I had the reason for Passport's display of different frequencies, we get 669.000 and he gets 183.000. It looks like Bryan's image is from an analog 4:3 TV using the 8300. If that's the case, I would think the connection is analog, either Composite or RCA A/V cables, in other words - ANALOG (even though I can see no reason why that would matter). However, then you threw your image up from the 3250 which I assume uses Component or HDMI, in other words - DIGITAL. Now I don't have any kind of possible explanation at all.

BTW, unlike Bryan, I never see 94 on that display, it's always 8. I tried PIP and get 8/669.000 for both channels.
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