AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › Blu-ray Software › Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind Blu-ray Release
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind Blu-ray Release - Page 2

post #31 of 142
11/11/10 at 7:49am
If the people encoding the US version are who I think they are, we will have nothing to worry about.
Reply
Reply

AVS Top Picks

post #32 of 142
11/11/10 at 9:03am
Damnit, it's this sort of thing that really ticks me off - I bought the UK version on day of release, and I wondered if it didn't look a little too soft compared to the Japanese screenshots I'd seen, and now I know why!

Hope the US version is region free, and clearly Optimum well and truly suck at Blu-ray releases.
Reply
Reply
post #33 of 142
11/11/10 at 9:14am
I don't think it's fair to say that about Optimum. From what I saw of their version of Ponyo, it looked as good as the US (Panasonic Hollywood Lab) version.

They should really just have left it alone, though.
Reply
Reply
post #34 of 142
11/11/10 at 9:50am
*Edit.


I've been proven wrong. Just ignore my observations here .
Reply
Reply
post #35 of 142
11/11/10 at 9:55am
I highly doubt that. Just because grain is easy to synthesise doesn't mean that's the case.

In any case, the grain on the Japanese version looks like real film grain, with differing particle sizes, spread across different high frequencies. Random in every sense of the word. It's the real deal.
Reply
Reply
post #36 of 142
11/11/10 at 10:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyris View Post

I highly doubt that. Just because grain is easy to synthesise doesn't mean that's the case.

In any case, the grain on the Japanese version looks like real film grain, with differing particle sizes, spread across different high frequencies. Random in every sense of the word. It's the real deal.

I'm not trying to prove, that because it's easy to synthesize, it's artificial.

It's actually the lack of differing particle sizes in the Japanese version that I find interesting.

But then again, like I said, I might be completely off-base .
Reply
Reply
post #37 of 142
11/11/10 at 10:33am
I wish Disney would hurry up and release this already.
Reply
Reply
post #38 of 142
11/11/10 at 10:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BsRoz View Post

I'm not usually the one to make accusations based on nothing, but the more I look at the Japanese release - the more I'm starting to think it might actually have digital grain added to it. I might be totally wrong, but the grain is almost artificially consistent in movement and size.

Remember, this is cel animation. In addition to the film grain, you have the texture of the cels themselves & the ground-glass of the animation stand to deal with, which will change the appearance of the grain structure compared to "live" photography, even with the same stock & exposure conditions. I mean, you could just as easily say that it looks like Floyd-Steinberg dithering which it does, precisly because Floyd-Steinberg dithering mimics the effect of real film grain, adding texture noise to bring out detail information.

What impresses me is the apparent lack of the false picture texture artefacts endemic to anime DVD releases. I paid sticker price, ca $180, for the Japanese Wings of Honneamise LaserDisc boxset, & another $60 for the Bandai Visual US BD release, so if the Disney release of Nausicaa does have problems, I have no reservations about springing for this release. Hopefully, though, they'll do it right, for one of the best-loved animated films of all time (I don't care what Disney says about their house product) & get rid of that nasty pink tint while they're at it.
Reply
Reply
post #39 of 142
11/11/10 at 12:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BsRoz View Post

It's actually the lack of differing particle sizes in the Japanese version that I find interesting.

Watched the JP copy a few nights ago. Grain varies in particle size and intensity through the film. It's a phenomenal looking release, and puts even the handsome (and insanely expensive) releases from Bandai Visual like The Wings of Honneamise, Memories, and Patlabor: The Movie to shame.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Faceless Rebel View Post

Ghost in the Shell (original, not 2.0!) didn't look all that great and it's a much newer film than Nausicca. There is a steady stream of old Gundam series and movies being released on Blu-ray, I wonder how those look.

Ghost in the Shell is something of a special case, because unlike 99% of animation it was composed of hand-painted cels composited on the AVID workstation and then printed to 35mm. Basically, the entire film is a digital special effect printed to film on 15 year old equipment. That allowed for some really unique depth-of-focus photography not possible with traditional animation, but also means the "Negative" is no looker. GITS 2.0 was created in part because that printed negative is never going to look particularly great.

I've not seen it, but I hear the various Gundam releases look fine. Just remember that anime TV shows are almost always shot on 16mm (aside from the credits), so just don't expect them to look like Five Star Stories. The negatives just aren't in the same league.
Reply
Reply
post #40 of 142
11/11/10 at 2:21pm
Here's the BDinfo:

Code:
                                                                                                                Total   Video                                             
Title                                                           Codec   Length  Movie Size      Disc Size       Bitrate Bitrate Main Audio Track                          Secondary Audio Track
-----                                                           ------  ------- --------------  --------------  ------- ------- ------------------                        ---------------------
00007.MPLS                                                      AVC     1:57:00 34.710.085.632  40.484.205.264  39,55   31,17   LPCM 2.0 1536Kbps (48kHz/16-bit)          LPCM 2.0 1536Kbps (48kHz/16-bit)
Code:
DISC INFO:

Disc Title:     NAUSICAA
Disc Size:      40.484.205.264 bytes
Protection:     AACS
BD-Java:        No
BDInfo:         0.5.3

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:                   00007.MPLS
Length:                 1:57:00 (h:m:s)
Size:                   34.710.085.632 bytes
Total Bitrate:          39,55 Mbps

VIDEO:

Codec                   Bitrate             Description     
-----                   -------             -----------     
MPEG-4 AVC Video        31172 kbps          1080p / 23,976 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1
MPEG-4 AVC Video        1296 kbps           480p / 23,976 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 3.2

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
LPCM Audio                      English         1536 kbps       2.0 / 48 kHz / 1536 kbps / 16-bit
LPCM Audio                      English         1536 kbps       2.0 / 48 kHz / 1536 kbps / 16-bit
LPCM Audio                      English         1536 kbps       2.0 / 48 kHz / 1536 kbps / 16-bit

SUBTITLES:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
Presentation Graphics           English         15,390 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           English         26,459 kbps                     

FILES:

Name            Time In         Length          Size            Total Bitrate   
----            -------         ------          ----            -------------   
00007.M2TS      0:00:00.000     1:57:00.513     34.710.085.632  39.553          

CHAPTERS:

Number          Time In         Length          Avg Video Rate  Max 1-Sec Rate  Max 1-Sec Time  Max 5-Sec Rate  Max 5-Sec Time  Max 10Sec Rate  Max 10Sec Time  Avg Frame Size  Max Frame Size  Max Frame Time  
------          -------         ------          --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  --------------  
1               0:00:00.000     0:07:41.961     30.937 kbps     39.891 kbps     00:00:46.046    35.989 kbps     00:00:21.730    35.300 kbps     00:00:22.689    161.279 bytes   712.205 bytes   00:00:46.296    
2               0:07:41.961     0:04:27.642     31.817 kbps     36.127 kbps     00:08:33.095    34.286 kbps     00:07:42.920    33.592 kbps     00:08:44.273    165.880 bytes   555.033 bytes   00:10:49.190    
3               0:12:09.603     0:06:27.678     32.219 kbps     35.837 kbps     00:12:26.495    34.431 kbps     00:12:12.857    33.962 kbps     00:12:12.273    167.974 bytes   532.275 bytes   00:12:24.618    
4               0:18:37.282     0:04:57.630     29.042 kbps     42.743 kbps     00:21:50.642    36.248 kbps     00:21:46.638    34.884 kbps     00:22:02.029    151.412 bytes   695.126 bytes   00:19:48.395    
5               0:23:34.913     0:05:03.302     31.104 kbps     38.946 kbps     00:26:22.455    35.925 kbps     00:26:19.452    35.058 kbps     00:25:45.627    162.160 bytes   668.918 bytes   00:26:19.494    
6               0:28:38.216     0:04:51.457     32.199 kbps     36.611 kbps     00:29:47.202    34.293 kbps     00:30:12.310    33.914 kbps     00:30:55.311    167.870 bytes   557.937 bytes   00:31:01.818    
7               0:33:29.674     0:04:45.076     32.559 kbps     36.795 kbps     00:38:02.446    34.084 kbps     00:36:57.673    33.866 kbps     00:36:52.668    169.748 bytes   523.135 bytes   00:38:07.743    
8               0:38:14.750     0:06:41.484     30.349 kbps     39.018 kbps     00:41:11.635    36.075 kbps     00:41:25.816    35.590 kbps     00:41:20.686    158.224 bytes   716.606 bytes   00:41:11.927    
9               0:44:56.235     0:05:06.347     32.071 kbps     35.564 kbps     00:47:38.230    33.854 kbps     00:45:36.400    33.646 kbps     00:45:39.778    167.202 bytes   428.181 bytes   00:45:39.820    
10              0:50:02.582     0:04:37.527     31.856 kbps     37.054 kbps     00:50:23.311    34.904 kbps     00:50:23.311    34.087 kbps     00:50:20.225    166.082 bytes   596.508 bytes   00:50:20.350    
11              0:54:40.110     0:03:46.809     32.023 kbps     35.912 kbps     00:55:26.906    34.755 kbps     00:56:37.977    34.088 kbps     00:56:37.852    166.951 bytes   610.324 bytes   00:56:56.579    
12              0:58:26.920     0:02:52.797     31.753 kbps     37.975 kbps     01:00:29.125    34.676 kbps     01:00:28.958    33.930 kbps     01:00:20.158    165.546 bytes   566.465 bytes   01:00:30.126    
13              1:01:19.717     0:06:33.309     32.178 kbps     36.780 kbps     01:01:25.556    34.412 kbps     01:01:44.951    33.887 kbps     01:01:54.377    167.762 bytes   573.630 bytes   01:01:25.723    
14              1:07:53.027     0:05:57.648     31.928 kbps     37.951 kbps     01:12:57.372    35.412 kbps     01:10:18.464    34.608 kbps     01:12:56.371    166.455 bytes   626.563 bytes   01:13:34.159    
15              1:13:50.676     0:04:48.913     32.083 kbps     38.775 kbps     01:14:55.866    35.872 kbps     01:14:52.613    34.819 kbps     01:14:47.524    167.263 bytes   581.654 bytes   01:14:45.647    
16              1:18:39.589     0:05:47.805     32.353 kbps     36.351 kbps     01:19:59.669    34.108 kbps     01:19:10.537    33.993 kbps     01:19:04.531    168.672 bytes   546.215 bytes   01:21:03.900    
17              1:24:27.395     0:06:21.964     31.897 kbps     37.085 kbps     01:26:15.211    34.734 kbps     01:26:13.793    34.040 kbps     01:26:13.793    166.298 bytes   549.704 bytes   01:25:57.694    
18              1:30:49.360     0:03:49.479     31.457 kbps     36.500 kbps     01:32:25.164    34.861 kbps     01:32:32.672    34.287 kbps     01:32:32.630    164.002 bytes   585.979 bytes   01:32:47.979    
19              1:34:38.839     0:05:31.122     28.266 kbps     45.149 kbps     01:36:52.431    38.088 kbps     01:36:50.930    36.167 kbps     01:36:45.883    147.368 bytes   610.941 bytes   01:34:48.849    
20              1:40:09.962     0:05:55.271     26.994 kbps     41.388 kbps     01:40:14.758    37.920 kbps     01:40:10.254    33.668 kbps     01:40:10.004    140.735 bytes   555.595 bytes   01:43:33.790    
21              1:46:05.233     0:03:38.301     29.349 kbps     43.722 kbps     01:47:08.880    37.437 kbps     01:47:08.839    35.019 kbps     01:47:08.880    153.012 bytes   645.562 bytes   01:48:28.919    
22              1:49:43.535     0:02:24.894     31.476 kbps     36.443 kbps     01:52:07.429    35.084 kbps     01:51:55.250    34.638 kbps     01:51:52.038    164.100 bytes   589.727 bytes   01:50:55.815    
23              1:52:08.430     0:02:53.298     32.950 kbps     37.916 kbps     01:52:12.684    35.811 kbps     01:52:08.680    34.531 kbps     01:52:09.389    171.787 bytes   645.978 bytes   01:52:23.695    
24              1:55:01.728     0:01:58.785     30.067 kbps     35.362 kbps     01:55:17.410    34.732 kbps     01:55:38.848    33.809 kbps     01:55:34.844    156.813 bytes   591.044 bytes   01:55:38.890    

STREAM DIAGNOSTICS:

File            PID             Type            Codec           Language                Seconds                 Bitrate                 Bytes           Packets         
----            ---             ----            -----           --------                --------------          --------------          -------------   -----           
00007.M2TS      4113 (0x1011)   0x1B            AVC                                     7020,430                31.172                  27.355.011.860  148.767.114     
00007.M2TS      4352 (0x1100)   0x80            LPCM            eng (English)           7020,430                1.542                   1.353.551.436   8.424.594       
00007.M2TS      4353 (0x1101)   0x80            LPCM            eng (English)           7020,430                1.542                   1.353.555.292   8.424.618       
00007.M2TS      4354 (0x1102)   0x80            LPCM            eng (English)           7020,430                1.542                   1.353.555.292   8.424.618       
00007.M2TS      4608 (0x1200)   0x90            PGS             eng (English)           7020,430                15                      13.505.913      80.687          
00007.M2TS      4609 (0x1201)   0x90            PGS             eng (English)           7020,430                26                      23.219.572      136.392         
00007.M2TS      6912 (0x1B00)   0x1B            AVC                                     7020,430                1.296                   1.137.473.999   6.288.484
Reply
Reply
post #41 of 142
11/11/10 at 3:00pm
Optimum strikes again I see. They filtered and wiped the film grain from their Ghibli DVD releases as well, some of which looked terrible in comparison to the Disney versions.

Really glad I didn't take a chance on the UK Nausicaa now, as I would only have ended up trying to get rid of it at a loss, just like Optimum's Ponyo (which I sold because of the stupid decision to not include both video angles, as well as the ugly yellow subtitles, and some very slight compression issues in the first chapter.)

But at least I can completely rule out collecting the UK Ghiblis now, it's either the US (if Disney can ever get their thumbs out and announce Nausicaa) or JP editions (horribly expensive, but guaranteed to get the best version, and guaranteed to get all the movies, most notably Grave of the Fireflies which Disney doesn't have the US rights to.)

By the way, Nausicaa was a 6K scan, which is probably why the grain looks so good. I really hope they'll do 6K scans of all the (film/cel) movies, but I guess we'll see what happens with Laputa in a month or so.
Reply
Reply
post #42 of 142
11/11/10 at 4:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by paku View Post

I really hope they'll do 6K scans of all the (film/cel) movies, but I guess we'll see what happens with Laputa in a month or so.

Agreed. I'm getting pretty anxious waiting to see some LAPUTA screencaps. My guess is that they will be as good as NAUSICAA, and maybe even a little better... if that's even possible.
Reply
Reply
post #43 of 142
11/11/10 at 7:45pm
Hmm... yep. The DNR'd UK release definitely looks better.

It is a rare occasion that DNR can actually make a release look better than just leaving the transfer untouched. This is one of those occasions.

Film grain is just plain awkward on animation. Thanks to its much more simplistic nature, animation can be successfully DNR'd without losing detail unlike live action. When I watched the Japanese BD of Nausicaä, the grain was the one thing that really stuck out again the cleanliness of animation - it was like the whole movie was in a sandstorm. The grain contributed nothing but noise - no added detail like with live action films.

Hopefully Disney DNR's their transfer too. They've done an excellent job in the past of removing grain from their own animated titles.
Reply
Reply
post #44 of 142
11/11/10 at 8:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyPreciousAnimes View Post

Film grain is just plain awkward on animation.

I'm afraid Hayao Miyazaki disagrees. Otherwise he probably wouldn't have added digital grain and simulated gate-weave on Ponyo.
Reply
Reply
post #45 of 142
11/11/10 at 9:09pm
You can trust whatever you like, of course.

I just want to make sure we're all clear that the director of the film in question clearly likes the nuance that film grain adds to animation, regardless of what your eyes may tell you.
Reply
Reply
post #46 of 142
11/12/10 at 2:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyPreciousAnimes View Post

Nuance? "Fine detail" isn't exactly the term I'd use to describe defects from a type of storage medium

Who's talking about detail? 35mm animation and digital animation simply look different. Hence the word 'nuance'.

A director's preferred aspect ratio or revisionist changes decades down the line are totally irrelevant to Nausicca and Miyazaki. It's a grainy film, and the way Ponyo was finished suggests that the director likes it that way. If you don't like the grain, lucky for you there's always the filtered UK release.

The rest of us grain-lovers can keep our Japanese release.
Reply
Reply
post #47 of 142
11/12/10 at 10:25am
This disc looks far from horrible, quite good in fact, but the having watched the complete film last night - the application of the DNR is quite messy.

Grain hardly moves, and is basically (visibly) frozen the entire film - and from time to time some parts of the image will have frozen grain and moving grain at the same time.

As a cruel joke, the HD-trailer on the disc does have the grain-pattern intact.
Reply
Reply
post #48 of 142
11/12/10 at 2:40pm
Looks like I'll buy the Japanese release on my next Tokyo trip then. $ouch.
Reply
Reply
post #49 of 142
11/13/10 at 3:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BsRoz View Post
Some comparisons of the Japanese Blu-ray vs UK Blu-ray.

Apparently someone at Optimum thought it would be a good idea to smoothen the film, sigh.......

There's still some grain, and it looks far from terrible - but they just shouldn't have messed with it.
Although, I do find the grain on the Japanese release to look strangely consistent and somewhat digital.

Hope you don't mind me using your previous screenshots eric.exe .

Japanese left - UK right
Not all exact frames.
Hello! I'm sorry, but those Uk caps are flawed. I previously compared the two BDs and DVDs for my own pleasure, and the BDs look practically identical.
Since I took some caps for myself, fortunately I have here one frame almost identical to the caps posted:
(I'm awfully sorry for the giant caps, but as this is my first post, I can't post URLs; feel free to downsize them, mods)

Japanese:
My UK frame:
Your UK frame:

also take a look at this frame:
UK:
Jap:

The Japanese one has more grain, which is however absolutely present in the Optimum BD - in minor quantity. Also, and most important, the colors are slightly manipulated in you cap (the hair, the dress, etc.). Thsi is a typical software malfunctioning - I exeperienced similar problems with a couple of programs (mostly with Total Media Theatre), but fortunately I found out better programs. I strongly advise you to (try to) change your 'frame-grabber' as soon as possible (sometimes, it can also depend on the video card).
Reply
Reply
post #50 of 142
11/13/10 at 4:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan8700 View Post
Hello! I'm sorry, but those Uk caps are flawed. I previously compared the two BDs and DVDs for my own pleasure, and the BDs look practically identical.
Since I took some caps for me, fortunately I have here one frame almost identical to the caps posted:
(I'm awfully sorry for the giant caps, but as this is my first post, I can't post URLs; feel free to downsize them, mods)

The Japanese one has more grain, which is however absolutely present in the Optimum BD - in minor quantity. Also, and most important, the colors are slightly manipulated in you cap (the hair, the dress, etc.). Thsi is a typical software malfunctioning - I exeperienced similar problems with a couple of programs (mostly with Total Media Theatre), but fortunately I found out better programs. I strongly advise you to (try to) change your 'frame-grabber' as soon as possible (sometimes, it can also depend on the video card).
Without being rude, you are actually wrong here.

You have compared my earlier screenshot with one that you took - which not only isn't an exact match, but also cropped and riddled with (compression/sharpening) artifacts.
Your screenshot is a 164kb .png file that's not even 1920x1080, but 1920x1040.

Look at the sea on the left of Nausicaa, see the difference?

I've matched your screenshot (exact frame) and you will find them to be quite matching (click on the spoiler tag).



Like I said earlier, the difference in colour is caused by the use of different colour-profiles, or perhaps even by differences in the disc themselves. I always use BT.709.

So please before making more accusations, I urge you to get your facts straight.
Reply
Reply
post #51 of 142
11/13/10 at 4:50am
Hey, BsRoz, why being so harsh?? Mine was more a friendly note than a reproach. However, thx for having matched the frame, and now I see the grain is more or less the same - and is good to me!
Re the size, I always take the caps directly in jpgs.
Regards.
Reply
Reply
post #52 of 142
11/13/10 at 4:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan8700 View Post
Hey, BsRoz, why being so harsh?? Mine was more a friendly note than a reproach. However, thx for having matched the frame, and now I see the grain is more or less the same - and is good to me!
Re the size, I always take the caps directly in jpgs.
Regards.
It's all good - no problem .
Reply
Reply
post #53 of 142
11/13/10 at 5:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan8700 View Post
Re the size, I always take the caps directly in jpgs.
You should never do that, especially if you're using MPC-HC, as the internal jpg compressor is horrible and adds a ton of compression artifacts.
Reply
Reply
post #54 of 142
11/13/10 at 7:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan8700 View Post

Hello! I'm sorry, but those Uk caps are flawed. I previously compared the two BDs and DVDs for my own pleasure, and the BDs look practically identical.

I don mean to be rude, but if you are serious, you need glasses.
theres CLEARLY a difference in the japanese .png shot compared to your jpeg one. its full or artifacts (whatever the reason for that is).

not to be rude again, but its really a problem when people claim theres not really a difference or a release still looks good when it occurs in situations like this and the difference is that obvious.
Reply
Reply
post #55 of 142
11/19/10 at 5:31pm
US release.....

Quote:


Disney is due to release Hayao Miyazaki's Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind as a Blu-ray+DVD Combo on 3/8/11 (SRP $39.99)! Extras on the Blu-ray will include The World of Ghibli, Creating Nausicaa, Enter the Lands, a Studio Ghibli Trivia Challenge and the original Japanese storyboards, while the included DVD will likely be the same disc as released previously by the studio.

http://digitalbits.com/#mytwocents
Reply
Reply
post #56 of 142
11/19/10 at 5:46pm
Awesome news! I can't wait for the other films to make the jump to Blu-Ray too!
Reply
Reply
post #57 of 142
11/19/10 at 7:00pm
My favorite Miyazaki (which is saying a lot) and despite a bit of sticker ouch it's an insta-buy. CAN'T WAIT.
Reply
Reply
post #58 of 142
11/20/10 at 1:07am
YAY! Now I don't have to import the JPN disc and I can chuck my 720p ripped disc once this hits! Day one buy for me if anyone couldn't tell.
Reply
Reply
post #59 of 142
11/21/10 at 12:23pm
The chances of the Japanese track being lossy are quite high. People should probably starting emailing Disney about it now.
Reply
Reply
post #60 of 142
11/21/10 at 3:23pm
It is weird to say it but I definitely prefer some DNR for animation. Grain stands out way too much otherwise and is quite distracting on a level not acceptable to me.
Reply
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Blu-ray Software

AVS Top Picks

AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › Blu-ray Software › Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind Blu-ray Release