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Official Panasonic DMP-BDT300/350 Owners Thread - Page 27

post #781 of 928
My 300 allows me to set the channel levels for all channels. But it only lets you assign a positive delay to center and surround channels. So it assumes that the front left and right are the farthest from the listener. It also assumes that you are at the same distance from both surround channels.
post #782 of 928
Quote:
Originally Posted by drseid View Post

I am not a happy camper. I just updated to the new firmware (1.61) on the BDT-350 and it removed my 5.1 output individual speaker settings that I had saved.

Even worse though, is after the firmware, making adjustments to the individual speaker level settings does not work at all. If you change the decebel levels using the pink noise generator from the player to allow you to adjust the speaker settings using an SPL meter, the actual pink noise levels do not change anymore as you adjust the decibels on the player for each speaker (so you can't make any individual speaker adjustments).

This probably will not effect most folks, but as I use an old Cary Cinema 6 that does not allow you to make adjustments using the the pre/pro when utilizing the audio inputs, this function was crucial for me to get proper sound when using the BDT-350. Now I wish I did not upgrade:-(

Quote:
Originally Posted by bommai View Post

My 300 allows me to set the channel levels for all channels. But it only lets you assign a positive delay to center and surround channels. So it assumes that the front left and right are the farthest from the listener. It also assumes that you are at the same distance from both surround channels.

Bommai, can you please indicate which firmware you're on and comment on DrSeid's experience (which comports with mine as best I can tell so far)? I'm on 1.30; he's on 1.73.

350's multichannel analog outputs ("MAO" for short) connected to the multi analog inputs ("EXT IN") of a Denon 3803 (which, not unlike DrSeid's Cary Cinema 6, receive no processing--the AVR simply amplifies those inputs "as is"). Pressing "7.1" in the "Analog Audio Output" screen (oddly placed under "TV / Device Connection" not "Audio" in Setup), I am able to set and save (presumably by pressing "Complete") independent volume settings for all channels. L and R down to as much as -6db; C, LS, RS, LB and RB down to -12db. But as I stairstep down or back up through the db gradations, there is NO audible change to the volume of the pink noise.

Additionally, it is not possible to set a positive db value for any speaker. Clearly, the player is permitting different things on different firmware versions regarding these basic calibration functions.
post #783 of 928
I will check it tonight for sure. I am on the latest firmware. I did not know anything about this player as I bought it only on March 9th. I am still within the return window at Best Buy. As soon as I connected the player, I did a firmware upgrade without going through the setup. My bad!! May be I should have checked to see what changed.

I am able to change the decibel level but I am not sure if it actually did anything. I will verify that tonight. Unlike the Denon, my HK AVR 745 allows channel level changes for 7.1 analog input also. In one of the modes, it even does and A/D and D/A so that I can take advantage of delays, bass management, etc. If the BDT-300 is indeed not doing it properly, I might have to use the second HDMI input or get the Oppo. I just don't feel like paying $300 extra for the Oppo.
post #784 of 928
Re "May be I should have checked to see what changed."

Even if you had, even the better release notes available at the domestic Pan site have never mentioned speaker setting calibration changes and it's starting to appear to me as though they've changed the functionality at least twice.

Re "Unlike the Denon, my HK AVR 745 allows channel level changes for 7.1 analog input also. In one of the modes, it even does and A/D and D/A so that I can take advantage of delays, bass management, etc."

That's rad that that HK enables level changes *and* A/D/A for BM.

Please post back word once you check tonight. This speaker adjustment ability on pre-1.73 was a big reason I bought this deck. After chasing it down at Conn's in Texas it's very disappointing that this appears to be busted and has been since what will likely be this player's final fw.
post #785 of 928
I am using a BDT-300 not a BDT-350. It has a build date of March 2010 (even though I bought it in March 2011 floor model). My firmware version is the latest 1.73. I upgraded it as soon as I turned it on! Today, I tested the following.

I went to the analog channel test tone and setup page. I used a Radioshack SPL meter and started the test tone. I measured about 68dB on the FL. I lowered the FL channel down from 0 dB to -6 dB and started the test tone again. The FL showed only 62dB. So, the test tone is working.

Just to make sure the test tone is not faking it, with the channel level for FL set this way, I ran through the test tone chapters of Video Essentials DVD and it also agreed with the settings. So, in conclusion, I think the channel level controls in the BDT-300 are working fine. Like I said before, there are only two delay settings in msec that I can set. One for surround and one for center. So, it assumes the LF and RF are the farthest from you (along with the SW). It assumes you are equidistant from both SL and SR.

I am wondering if they messed up the software for the BDT-350. I think you guys should call Panasonic. I wonder if this could be fixed under warranty.

Also, if you are using the BDT-350 mainly for analog, would the BD-85 work for you. I bought that too. I used it for a couple of movies. One was great. The second (Let Me In) would not even play properly for the audio. The audio was full of static. Weird. The same movie played fine on BDT-300. So, I have packed up the BD85. It is going back to Sears.
post #786 of 928
Rented Salt from Redbox. Watching now. Using HDMI SUB for audio through my HK. Every few minutes the video cuts out. I have HDMI MAIN connected to my projector. The audio is fine. I have set HDMI SUB to V.OFF. What a pain? Has anyone else had this problem? I guess I can't really use the second HDMI out. If that is the case, I could have stayed with the BD85 but that had its own problems. Yikes.
post #787 of 928
I took the advice of another poster on this thread that had the same blinking problem and turned off Deep Color. The blinking went away. Weird because the blinking with deep color on only happens if I use the HDMI SUB for audio instead of analog.
post #788 of 928
Apologies but I've edited and re-ordered my quote of your text to facilitate a more coherent reply given what I've discovered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bommai View Post

. . . if you are using the BDT-350 mainly for analog, would the BD-85 work for you.

The 85 doesn't do 3D.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bommai View Post

I am using a BDT-300 not a BDT-350. It has a build date of March 2010 (even though I bought it in March 2011 floor model). My firmware version is the latest 1.73.

I am wondering if they messed up the software for the BDT-350. I think you guys should call Panasonic. I wonder if this could be fixed under warranty.

My build date is the same. The 300 and 350 share the same firmware. Per what follows, my working conclusion is that the salient differences involve one firmware versus another--given what you say about your ability on 1.73 to set a positive db value for center and L and R surround channels; this is not the case on 1.3--not the 300 versus the 350.

I've had a case open with Pan re these issues for over a month.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bommai View Post

I went to the analog channel test tone and setup page. I used a Radioshack SPL meter and started the test tone. I measured about 68dB on the FL. I lowered the FL channel down from 0 dB to -6 dB and started the test tone again. The FL showed only 62dB. So, the test tone is working.

"Started the test tone again" got me thinking: Does the player not reflect changes in pink noise amplitude on a real time basis? I set widely varied db levels for all the speaker levels, pressed "Complete" and then went back into the menu and pressed "Test." Indeed, the pink noise was audibly played at varying levels without needing to even use an SPL to confirm. But these levels did NOT vary in real time while changing the settings. So it appears that, DrSeid, you are incorrect--IF 1.73 behaves the same as 1.3--about the speaker level settings being broken. Having said that, Panasonic has added an in my experience unprecedented, tedious step to speaker level calibration: you basically have to guess what the level should be, press "Complete," re-start the "Test," look at your SPL and adjust without seeing real time results of said adjustments, press "Complete" and then re-start the "Test" to check your results. Repeat. Arrg!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bommai View Post

Like I said before, there are only two delay settings in msec that I can set. One for surround and one for center. So, it assumes the LF and RF are the farthest from you (along with the SW). It assumes you are equidistant from both SL and SR.

I'm 7.1 and you're apparently 5.1. I have THREE millisecond adjustments: the two you mention for LS & RS plus C *and* one for LB & RB. I'll need an acoustician to inform me what the result is of independent speaker LEVEL settings for L versus R surround and L versus R surround back but only a single millisecond delay setting for BOTH of said channels. I don't think a louder versus softer signal arriving to the sweet spot at the same time is consistent with proper cal.

So although it appears things are not as bad as they seem, the ability to adjust to a db level above 0 on one fw versus not on another -and- the single millisecond adjustment for both sets of surrounds plus C are both still issues for these players MAO users.
post #789 of 928
The test tones were able to be changed in real time when I originally used the unit before the firmware update... It was only after the update that they could not be used that way.

In my case, I gave up with trying to get a fix and moved the player to my bedroom system that is only 2 channel and did not need the 7.1 analog outs.

I am switching to an Integra 40.2 pre/pro for my main system that does HDMI 1.4 and decodes the high rez audio formats, so I don't need the analog outs of the 350 anymore, and with the new Panasonic 210 I am now using in my main system I will still have the 3D capabilities that I too need.

I just wish Panasonic would have left things alone on the channel level adjustments, as the Cary would still be in my main rig (as well as the 350) if they would have, and it will be missed for my two channel needs to be sure.
post #790 of 928
Let me clarify. The 300 does not allow you to set positive dB values. Only between -6 and 0. So, only a maximum difference of 6dB. That may not be enough for some people since speaker sensitivity might vary widely. Luckily, I did not need that. However, the pink noise dB level changes without having to press complete.
post #791 of 928
Quote:
Originally Posted by drseid View Post

The test tones were able to be changed in real time when I originally used the unit before the firmware update... It was only after the update that they could not be used that way.

So my/the $64,000 question is, which firmware version(s) were you on when the pink noise changed volume in real time? If you're absolutely 100% certain the amplitude changed in real time previously, it--very oddly--appears that the player went from not performing that way on 1.3 (my current scenario), to performing that way (your previous scenario), back to not performing that way (Bommai's) current scenario on 1.73.
post #792 of 928
Quote:
Originally Posted by bommai View Post

Let me clarify. The 300 does not allow you to set positive dB values. Only between -6 and 0.

Thanks for this and I stand corrected--you did indeed say, "But [the player] only lets you assign a positive delay to center and surround channels. So it assumes that the front left and right are the farthest from the listener." Delay not dB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bommai View Post

However, the pink noise dB level changes without having to press complete.

Thanks. I think you still have to re-go through the speaker test pink noise playback "circle" to hear your results though . . .
post #793 of 928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.R.S View Post

So my/the $64,000 question is, which firmware version(s) were you on when the pink noise changed volume in real time? If you're absolutely 100% certain the amplitude changed in real time previously, it--very oddly--appears that the player went from not performing that way on 1.3 (my current scenario), to performing that way (your previous scenario), back to not performing that way (Bommai's) current scenario on 1.73.

Yes, definitely certain as I calibrated it myself using the older firmware with a Radio Shack SP meter and needed the test tones changed in real time to do it properly. When I upgraded the firmware, it erased my settings, and when I tried to do the calibrations from scratch, that is when I noticed I could not do it anymore as the pink noise did not change loudness when I did live adjustments to the db levels on each speaker.
post #794 of 928
So WHICH firmware version are you referring to when you say "older"?
post #795 of 928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.R.S View Post

So WHICH firmware version are you referring to when you say "older"?

I honestly can't remember anymore, as there have been two or three new ones since it happened.
post #796 of 928
Went a few pages back in the thread and didn't see anything on this. I have a 350, bought it at launch, hasn't seen a ton of use, some 3D movies, usually just regular blu rays, and like 3 dvds total. All of the sudden I'm getting disc incompatible when me and the wife tried watching The Switch, now anything and everything I put in is disc incompatible or unable to read disc, even movies I watched previously such as Avatar 3D.

Has anyone experienced this?

Im just wondering if it is worth it to contact Panasonic to try and get it fixed, since only parts are covered now and I will probably have to pay for labor or just cut my losses and get a BDP-93 or a Panny 210.
post #797 of 928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammie2980 View Post

Im just wondering if it is worth it to contact Panasonic to try and get it fixed, since only parts are covered now and I will probably have to pay for labor or just cut my losses and get a BDP-93 or a Panny 210.

Purchased at "launch" would be last spring. When exactly? You might very well be at the cusp of the 12-month manuf's warranty. I'm unclear on the supposed coverage of parts but not labor--who is that according to? My understanding is that you're either covered under that manuf's warranty and/or bought Pan's extended coverage and you're covered -or- it's been over 12 months since purchase and you didn't buy extended and therefore you have no coverage. If it's less than 12 months since you purchased the unit, for a problem that seemingly severe I would definitely at least contact Panasonic and see what they say.
post #798 of 928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammie2980 View Post

Went a few pages back in the thread and didn't see anything on this. I have a 350, bought it at launch, hasn't seen a ton of use, some 3D movies, usually just regular blu rays, and like 3 dvds total. All of the sudden I'm getting disc incompatible when me and the wife tried watching The Switch, now anything and everything I put in is disc incompatible or unable to read disc, even movies I watched previously such as Avatar 3D.

Has anyone experienced this?

Im just wondering if it is worth it to contact Panasonic to try and get it fixed, since only parts are covered now and I will probably have to pay for labor or just cut my losses and get a BDP-93 or a Panny 210.

Most credit cards have extended warranty. Enquire about that. The odd thing is that I saw the same problem on a floor model of 350 at best buy. So I bought the floor model bdt 300. I wonder if there is a failure mode in the 350 that is extensive.
post #799 of 928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.R.S View Post

Purchased at "launch" would be last spring. When exactly? You might very well be at the cusp of the 12-month manuf's warranty. I'm unclear on the supposed coverage of parts but not labor--who is that according to? My understanding is that you're either covered under that manuf's warranty and/or bought Pan's extended coverage and you're covered -or- it's been over 12 months since purchase and you didn't buy extended and therefore you have no coverage. If it's less than 12 months since you purchased the unit, for a problem that seemingly severe I would definitely at least contact Panasonic and see what they say.

Ahh sorry to be so vague. Purchase date was June 22nd 2010, so it is still within the 12 month period.

From the understanding I got from reading panasonics help section about warranties it seems it is in 3 parts. 30 day full refund, return to store etc. 90 days parts and labor, after 90 days their warranty just covers parts.

I will contact them I figure because it should still fall into the area of if they cannot fix they have to replace.
post #800 of 928
Quote:
Originally Posted by bommai View Post

Most credit cards have extended warranty. Enquire about that. The odd thing is that I saw the same problem on a floor model of 350 at best buy. So I bought the floor model bdt 300. I wonder if there is a failure mode in the 350 that is extensive.

Thats true also, and I do believe it was put on the Amex card so it should be fully covered.
post #801 of 928
Just to compare features, I read through the oppo 93 manual and found that it also has the limitation that the FL and fr have to be the farthest from the listener. However it does allow you to set independent distances for each channel as well as a dB range of -10 to +10dB. I am still debating whether to keep the 300 get the oppo.
post #802 of 928
Quote:
Originally Posted by bommai View Post

Just to compare features, I read through the oppo 93 manual and found that it also has the limitation that the FL and fr have to be the farthest from the listener. However it does allow you to set independent distances for each channel as well as a dB range of -10 to +10dB. I am still debating whether to keep the 300 get the oppo.

Thanks for this. And if the 93 is like the 83, the deck enables one to access the Setup menu while playing a disc. When I had the 83, I enjoyed being able to to do audio calibrations/testing using the AIX Records BD.
post #803 of 928
Quote:
Originally Posted by bommai View Post

Rented Salt from Redbox. Watching now. Using HDMI SUB for audio through my HK. Every few minutes the video cuts out. I have HDMI MAIN connected to my projector. The audio is fine. I have set HDMI SUB to V.OFF. What a pain? Has anyone else had this problem? I guess I can't really use the second HDMI out. If that is the case, I could have stayed with the BD85 but that had its own problems. Yikes.

Nope, never had that kind of a problem.
post #804 of 928
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjktcvs View Post


Nope, never had that kind of a problem.

Did you use the second hdmi port for audio? Were you bit streaming or doing PCM 5.1? Did you have deep color enabled? Turning off deep color in the 300 got rid of the problem for me. My display is a hdmi 1.3 deep color enabled Epsom 1080ub projector. My receiver is a hk avr 745. I did not have the blinking problem even with deep color enabled if I used multiple channel analog for audio. I am wondering if there is extra traffic on the hdmi due to deep color and having two hdmi links on the player is somehow overloading it. Also does your display support deep color?
post #805 of 928
Nothing is encoded with Deep color anyways. Just leave it off. Messes with color accuracy.

S~
post #806 of 928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.R.S View Post

Thanks for this. And if the 93 is like the 83, the deck enables one to access the Setup menu while playing a disc. When I had the 83, I enjoyed being able to to do audio calibrations/testing using the AIX Records BD.

Did you an 83 before? If yes why did you switch to the panny? For the 3D?
post #807 of 928
Quote:
Originally Posted by bommai View Post

Did you use the second hdmi port for audio? Were you bit streaming or doing PCM 5.1? Did you have deep color enabled? Turning off deep color in the 300 got rid of the problem for me. My display is a hdmi 1.3 deep color enabled Epsom 1080ub projector. My receiver is a hk avr 745. I did not have the blinking problem even with deep color enabled if I used multiple channel analog for audio. I am wondering if there is extra traffic on the hdmi due to deep color and having two hdmi links on the player is somehow overloading it. Also does your display support deep color?

Yeah, I have a Pioneer Kuro which can handle 36-bit color and the 350. I normally bitstream, but can test doing the decoding internally.
post #808 of 928
Quote:
Originally Posted by bommai View Post

Did you an 83 before? If yes why did you switch to the panny? For the 3D?

Yes. I'm a little notorious in other areas of the forum as to the issues I had with it/why I sold it (problems with DVD-A and SA-CD playback).

Yes, bought the 350 for MAO and 3D support (and my generally positive past experiences with the BD10--my first BD player--and BD55) . Especially given these recent developments regarding calibration of the 350, I may have to re-visit the possibility of getting a 93. But it won't be until after I've read some reviews and heard from many owners of the much-delayed DENON DBP-2012.
post #809 of 928
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.R.S View Post

Yes. I'm a little notorious in other areas of the forum as to the issues I had with it/why I sold it (problems with DVD-A and SA-CD playback).

Yes, bought the 350 for MAO and 3D support (and my generally positive past experiences with the BD10--my first BD player--and BD55) . Especially given these recent developments regarding calibration of the 350, I may have to re-visit the possibility of getting a 93. But it won't be until after I've read some reviews and heard from many owners of the much-delayed DENON DBP-2012.

Other than this issue, has your 350 been solid? I have 3 days before I need to decide whether to keep or return the 300. If I am going to use the 2 HDMI port, I might as well return it and get the 310 when it comes out because it has 2 HDMIs also and I can get it at a discount through my employer's plan with Panasonic. Plus I can get the Avatar disk too.

I can use the Gen 1 PS3 for SACD but I was wondering if the 93 would have better SACD support than the PS3. Plus I could probably find a gamer willing to give me $200+ for the Gen1 PS3. I could sell it before it dies! 4+ year old already.

I hardly play games.
post #810 of 928
It seems like you've tentatively outlined why you should look at selling the PS3 IMO, Bommai.

Yeah the 350 has been okay otherwise so far, with the caveat that I'd feel much more confident in my opinion after watching several more BDs and DVDs. I think reviewing the thread's contents from last year would be more dispositive than what I say after only a few weeks of ownership.

Remember that the 310 is the new form factor--shorter and, more importantly, the new GUI. It's not like the past players. Some people like it a lot; I don't think I'd be one of them insofar as it highlights the "network" capabilities of the player (stuff that I hate is being visited upon BD players instead of proper media streaming devices where it arguably belongs).

It raises PS3 advocates hackles to call it this but I think you'd be hard-pressed to say a "gaming console" is giving you better SA-CD performance than a 93 (with its I think superior chipsets/DACs). Isn't gen 1 limited to stereo SA-CD only also? Seems like an easy choice if you don't play games . . . but then there IS that $200 price premium for the 93 . . . and then there is also the issue of when the freakin' 310 is going to drop--I'm a little surprised/disappointed that it's taking so much longer to come to market than the 110 and 210 . . .
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