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LAST OF THE MOHICANS - "All New Definitive Director's Cut" - Coming Late 2010 - Page 19

post #541 of 744
10/13/10 at 11:02pm
I was honestly expecting the worst, and I was very pleasantly surprised. I have a Panasonic AE4000 projecting on a 120" 2.37:1 Carada screen via the Oppo 83 and it looked beautiful. Dark, yes, but accurate. I remember this being a dark film when I saw it in the theater back in '92. My projector isn't even calibrated yet and it looked great. I love the new cut, as well. All in all, VERY happy with this blu-ray. :-)
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post #542 of 744
10/14/10 at 1:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by HVisone View Post

...but would just like to watch a very great movie on a big plasma screen in their living room and try to enjoy it...

Sure hope they don't start mastering BD's too suit only those needs.
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post #543 of 744
10/14/10 at 2:09am
This disc isn't for laymen (or laywomen ;-) ).
It's for people w/professional calibrated displays (discs don't count).
In rooms w/light control.
And for fans of Mann(ly) look(s).

Movies aren't meant for everyone.
Don't take it personal that Mann made (ha, ha) this for himself (not you).
If you like the look cool, if its too dark; then its too dark for you.
EZ

Maybe there should be a poll; will this get re-issued (ala "G" & "GoNY").
I think: not!
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post #544 of 744
10/14/10 at 6:18am
I just took a break from watchin' cartoons to come over and see what was being posted...

I see the disc is still failing unless your set is calibrated to pro specs and watched at night with special Michael Mann anti black crush, yellow reducing, scene enhancing glasses...or you had low expectations to begin with.

Really, fix the disc Fox....
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post #545 of 744
10/14/10 at 6:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

Careful with that comment....it will take only a few minutes before the "Director's Intent!" Club and the "But It Was Filmed That Way!" Society to generate some nasty words your way.
And of course, as always, the "Your Display Needs To Be Calibrated!" Battalion will make an entrance...

I wish I was better practiced in the art of self-deception like these people.
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post #546 of 744
10/14/10 at 7:11am
Actually my biggest problem with the disc is with the documentary when Mann states that the Iroquois controlled 75% of the fur trade and had hegemony over the Great Lakes. This is obvious nonsense as everyone knows the Chippewas and Ottawas totally defeated the Iroquois in the Beaver Wars of the late 1600s and it was they who were the biggest Indian players in the fur trade of the Pays den Haut.

But other than that....
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post #547 of 744
10/14/10 at 9:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG ED View Post

This disc isn't for laymen (or laywomen ;-) ).
It's for people w/professional calibrated displays (discs don't count).
In rooms w/light control.
And for fans of Mann(ly) look(s).

Movies aren't meant for everyone.
Don't take it personal that Mann made (ha, ha) this for himself (not you).

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpconvert View Post

I just took a break from watchin' cartoons to come over and see what was being posted...

I see the disc is still failing unless your set is calibrated to pro specs and watched at night with special Michael Mann anti black crush, yellow reducing, scene enhancing glasses...or you had low expectations to begin with.

You guys have summed it up nicely.

DON'T stop bitching, tell everyone you know.

Remember, if there wasn't complaints TFE, Gladiator, GoNY, etc. would NOT have had re-issues.
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post #548 of 744
10/14/10 at 9:27am
Those releases used old masters. This disc is using a new master some people don't like. You really think they'd pay to do it again
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post #549 of 744
10/14/10 at 9:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

Those releases used old masters. This disc is using a new master some people don't like. You really think they'd pay to do it again

I don't think anything is wrong with the master. I just think they have a setting wrong for at least some batches of this release. Saving Private Ryan probably had a new master, but it still had a glitch on the disc.
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post #550 of 744
10/14/10 at 9:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

Then watch something else until it gets dark out

I don't remember "The Road" inspiring any such whining about dimness, and that disc was probably half as bright as even this one... same for the Twilight movies

I didn't notice any troubles with shadow detail in The Road...
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post #551 of 744
10/14/10 at 9:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG ED View Post

This disc isn't for laymen (or laywomen ;-) ).
It's for people w/professional calibrated displays (discs don't count).
In rooms w/light control.
And for fans of Mann(ly) look(s).

Movies aren't meant for everyone.
Don't take it personal that Mann made (ha, ha) this for himself (not you).
If you like the look cool, if its too dark; then its too dark for you.
EZ

Maybe there should be a poll; will this get re-issued (ala "G" & "GoNY").
I think: not!

My display is professionally and properly calibrated by a known industry professional, and I watch my movies in a dim, light controlled environment. In my opinion, something is wrong with this disc.
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post #552 of 744
10/14/10 at 10:32am
Robert Harris review. Quite positive.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/foru...ans-in-blu-ray
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post #553 of 744
10/14/10 at 10:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkcohen View Post

My display is professionally and properly calibrated by a known industry professional, and I watch my movies in a dim, light controlled environment. In my opinion, something is wrong with this disc.

Nah, you just need a better understanding of photography and better equipment.
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post #554 of 744
10/14/10 at 10:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

Then watch something else until it gets dark out

I don't remember "The Road" inspiring any such whining about dimness, and that disc was probably half as bright as even this one... same for the Twilight movies

The Road looked perfectly fine on my display. Not dark at all. Mohicans, on the other hand, is very dark and exhibits black crush.
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post #555 of 744
10/14/10 at 10:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by degas View Post

Nah, you just need a better understanding of photography and better equipment.

I'm not saying anything is wrong with the film or the Mann approved master.
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post #556 of 744
10/14/10 at 10:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattGuyOR View Post

Robert Harris review. Quite positive.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/foru...ans-in-blu-ray

I just finished reading that review before I visited this thread...GOOD TIMING!

In view of his thoughts (and those of ChrisWiggles as well), I'm hoping my KURO will do it justice. It has been calibrated with a DVE disc and I use the Pure Mode, which is quite accurate "out of the box" for gray scale, colors, etc., so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I'll have a similar experience that Mr. Harris had. I'll be watching it tonight in a completely dark room.
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post #557 of 744
10/14/10 at 11:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

Those releases used old masters. This disc is using a new master some people don't like. You really think they'd pay to do it again

Plenty of BDs have used "old" masters and haven't generated the complaints those others did.

The ONLY reason there was re-issues is because studios are, like any large business, sensitive to negative publicity.
Once the Genie is out of the bottle, they are in trouble.
The last thing a studio would want to see is an article in the NY Times Movies Section about an internet controversy concerning the poor video quality of their home video releases.
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post #558 of 744
10/14/10 at 11:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonAB View Post

I wish I was better practiced in the art of self-deception like these people.

edit: snarky comment removed.
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post #559 of 744
10/14/10 at 11:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by oink View Post

You guys have summed it up nicely.

DON'T stop bitching, tell everyone you know.

Remember, if there wasn't complaints TFE, Gladiator, GoNY, etc. would NOT have had re-issues.

But something like Gladiator was utterly wrong; aside from any other flaws, it was missing film elements present on the DVD. When I compare the LOTM BD vs the DVD, I don't see elements present on the DVD that aren't present on the BD, I see a mastering done with a different gamma.

It's important to complain about the right things if we want to hold studios to the standard of releasing film content that is representative of the theatrical presentation. If folks complain loudly about transfers that meet that bar, we're only teach the studios that folks prefer content tweaked to look different than the theatrical presentation, or are accurate on uncalibrated or partially calibrated displays.
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post #560 of 744
10/14/10 at 12:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sage View Post

But something like Gladiator was utterly wrong; aside from any other flaws, it was missing film elements present on the DVD. When I compare the LOTM BD vs the DVD, I don't see elements present on the DVD that aren't present on the BD, I see a mastering done with a different gamma.

It's important to complain about the right things if we want to hold studios to the standard of releasing film content that is representative of the theatrical presentation. If folks complain loudly about transfers that meet that bar, we're only teach the studios that folks prefer content tweaked to look different than the theatrical presentation, or are accurate on uncalibrated or partially calibrated displays.

I don't know why some folks have such a hard time wrapping their brains around the notion that the disc actually does represent the film-maker's intent. It's not a "mistake", its how they want it to look. One is always free to dislike the artist's intent, but arguing about it is silly.

sage is right about this. Griping to studios about the wrong things is the reason we have DNR'd and "boosted levels" releases that look much worse on the whole than this release does. In fact, it can be argued that complaining to studios about anything at all will only serve to encourage them to interfere with the artists even more than they already do.
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post #561 of 744
10/14/10 at 12:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

I don't know why some folks have such a hard time wrapping their brains around the notion that the disc actually does represent the film-maker's intent. It's not a "mistake", its how they want it to look. One is always free to dislike the artist's intent, but arguing about it is silly.

sage is right about this. Griping to studios about the wrong things is the reason we have DNR'd and "boosted levels" releases that look much worse on the whole than this release does. In fact, it can be argued that complaining to studios about anything at all will only serve to encourage them to interfere with the artists even more than they already do.

There is no way the blu ray I have represents the director's intent. I saw this movie in theaters. Details were visible, like any other movie. This disc is so dark that in the ten minute night conversation in the burial ground, you can't see the actors faces or mouths moving. If you can, then you have a different encode than the one I bought. Out of curiosity, can you see much color difference on the progress bar at the bottom of the screen when you pause it? Mine is a brown color that you can hardly tell how far along in the movie you are.
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post #562 of 744
10/14/10 at 12:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bviss View Post

There is no way the blu ray I have represents the director's intent. I saw this movie in theaters.

That was before "The Definitive Director's Cut". What Michael Mann intended circa 1994 and what he intends circa 2010 are two very different things.

That has nothing to do with whether the gamma was set properly or not, but it does mean that prior editions of the film are more or less irrelevant in deciding what it was Mann "wants" for the film today.
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post #563 of 744
10/14/10 at 1:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kentai View Post

That was before "The Definitive Director's Cut". What Michael Mann intended circa 1994 and what he intends circa 2010 are two very different things.

That has nothing to do with whether the gamma was set properly or not, but it does mean that prior editions of the film are more or less irrelevant in deciding what it was Mann "wants" for the film today.

So today Mann wants the film to be so dark that you might as well close your eyes and just listen to the sound. That's how dark my blu ray is in the night scenes. It has nothing to do with calibration. To make another movie look like this I would have to lower my blackness level by 30 points.
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post #564 of 744
10/14/10 at 1:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG ED View Post

This disc isn't for laymen (or laywomen ;-) ).
It's for people w/professional calibrated displays (discs don't count).
In rooms w/light control.
And for fans of Mann(ly) look(s).

Movies aren't meant for everyone.
Don't take it personal that Mann made (ha, ha) this for himself (not you).
If you like the look cool, if its too dark; then its too dark for you.
EZ

Maybe there should be a poll; will this get re-issued (ala "G" & "GoNY").
I think: not!

You want a poll with 99% of folks being laymen that have actually adopted to the format watching BDs and have rather budget displays and uncalibrated to boot?

Better rethink that!
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post #565 of 744
10/14/10 at 2:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bviss View Post

There is no way the blu ray I have represents the director's intent. I saw this movie in theaters. Details were visible, like any other movie. This disc is so dark that in the ten minute night conversation in the burial ground, you can't see the actors faces or mouths moving. If you can, then you have a different encode than the one I bought.

I could see their faces and their mouths moving just fine, and my projector hasn't even been calibrated yet. You might want to exchange your disc?
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post #566 of 744
10/14/10 at 2:10pm
If this is what the director intended, he'd have been better of making it a radio drama.

What's the point of a movie if you can't see any of its events?
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post #567 of 744
10/14/10 at 2:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonAB View Post

If this is what the director intended, he'd have been better of making it a radio drama.

What's the point of a movie if you can't see any of its events?

It'll be forgotten soon with some real blockbuster catalog titles that will outsell this pretty badly and will have great quality!

You can always use this BD for your favorite beverage when you watch those!
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post #568 of 744
10/14/10 at 2:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertc88 View Post

It'll be forgotten soon with some real blockbuster catalog titles that will outsell this pretty badly and will have great quality!

You can always use this BD for your favorite beverage when you watch those!

I'm just hoping I'm not similarly disappointed in Moulin Rouge.
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post #569 of 744
10/14/10 at 2:45pm
Review with plenty of screenshots on Land of Whimsy. Dark.
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post #570 of 744
10/14/10 at 2:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post

Review with plenty of screenshots on Land of Whimsy. Dark.

These screens shots show pretty much what I'm seeing. Look at the shot that is pretty much a black picture with a little fuzzy blue in the upper left corner. If that's what we are supposed to see then screw this transfer. Look at the shot in the cabin in the beginning. We are supposed to see both brothers. Not one brother and I can barely make out a second person on screen. Ridiculous. The last shot is on top of a mountain in the bright daylight. It looks like 7pm in a valley.
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