LAST OF THE MOHICANS - "All New Definitive Director's Cut" - Coming Late 2010 - Page 22

Personally, I think people should be more generous in their use of "IMO" when discussing this BR. Anyone on the fence about purchasing it should make up their own mind and not rely on the comments here, good or bad.

I don't think anyone is suggesting people should not see it for themselves.

Obviously not but with comments that this BD challenges displays, folks should know where they stand when that has been stated in the past. And I strongly advise a rental as it was just another lesson for me personally that was reiterated regarding catalogs whereby opinions are all over the place.

I've made it a habit to rent before buying. Money is too tight to be purchasing discs I decide I don't like.

Well my TV's brightness has been set with color bars, so as far as I know, it's where it's supposed to be.

It is a dark film, but everything that needs to be seen is perfectly visible.

It was a joke! I totally disagree with you on this that professional reviewers have uncalibrated displays. By the way their equipment was listed in all of the reviews I cited. Look, you yourself admitted the daytime scenes don't look natural and you adjusted your gamma to increase the low end contrast brighteneing up the dark portions of the picture. The same thing I did for the disc to look fantastic. My point is on a calibrated display you shouldn't have to adjust the settings period on any bluray disc! This and Escape from New York are the only 2 titles out of my 400+ HD collection and easily 400+ HD rentals I needed to do this for.

You blame everyone for having an uncalibrated display and you yourself had to adjust the settings even with your calibrated to the 9's setup. No I should not have to make altering adjustments to my display for every different bluray title I put in because they are supposed to have thier own look, that is ridiculous. The whole point of proper calibration is to avoid that very scenario. My point is more than proven and by your own comments might I ad.

So reviewers are watching these title on random televisions? Like they get a new display in every week LOL! Actually the reviewers generally use their own equipment. Give me a few examples of horrendous bluray titles that were given 5 star reviews for PQ.

Rather a poll being created for liking or disliking the PQ, I would have liked to have seen a poll whether adjustments were made on the player or display. Think I know what that result would have been though based on what I've read in my travels.

I don't know how much I'll go back to this BD, one of the biggest disappointments for me to date with the format personally for a movie I think is great and could not wait to watch in glorious HD. Other high profile catalogs are approaching. Tick. tick. tick.

I wasn't suggesting they were. There are a lot of posts stating opinion as if it's fact. That's all I was trying to point out.

As I have stated repeatedly, I did not touch anything on my display besides a CHOICE on gamma which is a choice I make regularly depending on the film. I did not adjust anything away from calibrated settings. Black level remained EXACTLY at 16. White level remained right at ~254 as normal. I didn't brighten anything, alter iris settings, bulb brightness, or anything else.

It looked fine. It's a dark film, and it looked dark.


No I did not, you're not understanding what I'm saying.


Exactly. There was nothing altered for me to view this disc. Everything remained untouched. All I did was make a particular gamma selection, which is something I use frequently with many titles.

This is the third time, at least, that I have explained this to you.


NO it absolutely is not proven as such. You're just having some difficulty what I've stated explicitly and clearly.


I was being quite serious. There are all kinds of disc reviews with completely unknown equipment and viewing environments. Pretty much every review on BD.com is a joke. As is the case with many reviews, the vast majority of them do not list their systems, do not post their measured calibration results, etc. You have absolutely no idea what reviewers are looking at, from how far away, or what they're capable of seeing.

Here's someone drooling all over the Patton BD:

http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/33612/patton/

Which even includes the hilarious observation:


"The opening shot of George C. Scott in front of the American flag is practically a signal test image. The level-straight red & white stripes are pure in color and free of fringing, 'ringing' or other NTSC artifacts."

What is this reviewer viewing? Does he have a tiny TV that he is sitting 10 feet away from? Probably. Because this shot is one of the most immediately horrific shots in the entire film. Immediately and incredibly obvious and severe EE ringing, and the shot is a pasty disaster of DNR gone wild. Maybe this fellow is just old and can't see well. Who knows? But you can rest assured his judgements on BD release quality are utterly useless. Most reviews are equally worthless to me.

If you read any BD reviews at all, you see this kind of thing all the time.

Here's another of the same disc, on an entirely unknown system:
http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Patton-Blu-ray/679/

Giving the video 5 stars, drooling all over this clusterf**k of a release, calling it "spectacular" and giving it his "highest recommendation."

Hilarious.

I am not sure such a poll would have survived either.

At any rate, the results of such is easy to guess.
Has anyone thus far admitted to NOT manipulating their settings for this BD?

It is interesting to note those who look down their nose at others who haven't had their display "ISF calibrated" are also messing with their settings.

I, for one, did NOT change any of my settings for viewing TLOTM, and as I mentioned in a previous post I had no trouble whatsoever seeing details in dark (i.e., nighttime) scenes. I suppose a boost in the brightness level would have yielded better results in the dim, daylight scenes, but I was more than satisfied with the detail and depth in those scenes so I left the settings alone. I watched it on a Pioneer 60" KURO Elite from 7.5' in a completely dark room. My KURO has NOT been professionally calibrated either, though I did some personal calibrations on it a year ago when I bought the set. I also use the Pure Mode, which is quite accurate right out of the box for greyscale and colors.

I have an elite Pioneer 151 60 inch Kuro and a 05fd player. My set was self calibrated using help from this site to unlock and calibrate the ISF modes. I watched the movie with the ISF night mode in a darkened room, and had absolutely no problems with the darkness in this film. It looks better to me, than it has ever before. Details, even in the darkest scenes were discernible, and my wife and I loved the beautiful cinematography and lots of little details we had never noticed before on previous viewings in other formats. Definitely a keeper for me.

Did you or did you not change your gamma settings? If you did then you changed the settings on your calibrated display, end of story.

http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/45942...itive-cut-the/

Click on the author's name

Equipment: LG 55LH40 55" 1080p LCD

Onkyo TX-SR605 Receiver:
- JVC XV-BP1 via HDMI
- Sony PS3 Slim via HDMI (Firmware v3.40)

Yamaha 5.1 Surround Components:
- Powered Subwoofer (YST-SW215)
- Wood Cabinet Surround Speakers (NS-AP5715)

http://www.dvdmg.com/lastofthemohicansbr.shtml

Panasonic 50" TH-50PZ77U 1080p Plasma Monitor; Sony STR-DG1200 7.1 Channel Receiver; Panasonic DMP-BD60K Blu-Ray Player using HDMI outputs; Michael Green Revolution Cinema 6i Speakers (all five); Kenwood 1050SW 150-watt Subwoofer.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/gear.html

EQUIPMENT LISTS (by reviewer)

Peter M. Bracke
- Sony KDS-R70XBR2 70" LCoS 1080P HDTV [via HDMI]
- Sony PlayStation 3 60Gb Blu-ray Player [via HDMI]
- Samsung BD-P1400 [via HDMI v1.3]
- Toshiba HD-XA2* [via HDMI]
- Microsoft X-Box 360 HD DVD Add-on [for comparison purposes only]
- Onkyo TX-SR905 7.1-Channel A/V Receiver
- M&K S-150THX Left, Center, and Right Speakers
- M&K SS-150 Left, Right Surround Speakers
- M&K S-100B Back Left, Back Right Surround Speakers
- M&K MX-200 Subwoofer
- JVC HM-DH30000U D-VHS with D-Theater HD VCR
- Dish Network HD-942 High-Definition DVR
- BetterCables Interconnects

Nate Boss
- Mitsubishi WD-65C8 65" DLP 1080P HDTV (via HDMI)
- Sony Playstation 3 80GB Blu-ray Player (via HDMI)
- LG BH200 Blu-ray Player (set to region B) (via HDMI)
- Onkyo TX-SR606 receiver
- Klipsch Synergy Sub-10 Subwoofer
- Klipsch Synergy Quintet III

Kenneth S. Brown
- Sony 52" Bravia XBR3 1080p Flat-Panel LCD [via HDMI]
- Panasonic DMP-BD30 Blu-ray Player [via HDMI]
- Sony Playstation 3 60GB Blu-ray Player [via HDMI]
- Sony BDP-S1 Blu-ray Player [for comparison purposes only]
- Toshiba HD-A35 HD DVD Player [via HDMI]
- Microsoft X-Box 360 HD DVD Add-on [for comparison purposes only]
- Denon AVR-4308CI 7.1 Audio Receiver
- Kilpsch Synergy series 7.1 speakers
- DirecTV High-Definition DVR [via HDMI]
- Silver Reference MK II and BetterCables Interconnects

M. Enois Duarte
- Panasonic PT-AE4000 Projector
- 92" Elite Screen CineTension2
- Toshiba 42XV545U Regza 42" 1080p LCD
- PS3 60GB
- Toshiba HD-X2
- Pioneer Elite SC-07
- Klipsch F-3 Loudspeakers (fronts)
- Klipsch RC-62 (center)
- Klipsch RS-52 (sides)
- Klipsch S-2 (rears)
- HSU VTF-3 HO Sub

David Krauss
- Mitsubishi WD-57732 57" DLP 1080p HDTV [via HDMI 1.3]
- Panasonic DMP-BD35 Blu-ray Player [via HDMI 1.3]
- Sony Playstation 3 60GB Blu-ray Player [via HDMI]
- Denon 3808-CI A/V Receiver
- Boston CR-8 Left and Right Speakers
- Infinity CC-1 Center Speaker
- Infinity RS-125 Left, Right Surround Speakers
- Infinity BU-80 Subwoofer
- DirecTV HR-20 HD-DVR [via HDMI]
- LG RC199H Upconverting DVD/VCR player/recorder [via HDMI]

Tom Landy
- Sony 46" Bravia KDL-46V2500 1080p Flat-Panel LCD [via HDMI]
- Panasonic DMP-BD30 Blu-ray Player [via HDMI]
- Toshiba HD-A20 HD DVD Player [via HDMI]
- Onkyo TX-SR605 5.1 Channel A/V Receiver
- Nuance 3D Spatial 5.1 Speaker System.
- Bell ExpressVu 9200 High-Definition PVR [via HDMI] - Monster Cables
- Harmony 720 Universal Remote Control

Aaron Peck
- LG 47LH30 47-Inch 1080p LCD HDTV [via HDMI]
- Sony Playstation 3 60GB Blu-ray Player [via HDMI]
- Onkyo TX-SR606 7.1 Channel Receiver and Speakers [via HDMI]

Joshua Zyber
- JVC DLA-HD100 1080p D-ILA projector
- Panamorph UH480 anamorphic lens
- DVDO iScan VP50Pro video scaler
- Oppo DBP-83 Blu-ray player (via HDMI)
- Sony Playstation 3 (via HDMI)
- LG BH200 Blu-ray/HD DVD combi player (via HDM)
- Toshiba HD-XA2 HD DVD player (via HDMI)
- Denon AVR-3808CI receiver
- Cambridge Soundworks (CSW) Newton MC600HD left/right main speakers
- CSW Newton MC300 center speaker
- CSW Newton S305 left/right rear speakers
- CSW Newton S100 center rear speakers (2)
- CSW Basscube 8 powered subwoofer

Concerning the Patton reviews, no argument from me.

I didn't touch a thing on my Panny 65VT25 for this title, watched in a dark room and never felt anything was lacking in the presentation. It's a film depicting a dark world, and it's, well....DARK.

My television has not been professionally calibrated, but just by myself with some color bars.

I did not change any of the settings while watching The Last of the Mohicans on Blu-ray. I didn't need to. Everything that needed to be seen was visible.

The only part of the film I felt could have used a little more brightness / contrast was the first ambush scene, but it was fine overall.

No it really isn't that dark, the blu ray is just wrong. I saw this freakin movie in the theater and it wasn't even close to this dark. So you didn't change any settings and you are seeing the same thing we are, you just won't admit it was too DARK.


and ChrisWiggles; I guess my CRT is just as terribly uncalibrated as the guy from dvdmg.com because we had the exact same experience.

I saw thus movie in the theater 3 times back in the day, and it was never this dark from what I recall. Being a "dark" movie never occurred to me. *

To the point being made earlier, I don't think it's a good thing when you have to adjust your display to watch a specific title. Why bother calibrating then?

This whole "I saw it in the theater when it came out, and it looked vs the BD" is completely ridiculous. People on both sides have used that comparison.

Does anyone really remember the exact brightness level of a movie they saw in the theater 18 years ago? And remembers what detail was or was not visible? Even if they did, there's probably more variation in PQ between theaters than there is with people's displays. Some theaters have brighter images than others. It's a meaningless comparison.

Another thing I am going to bring up that is extremely valid. Where were all the people when the dvd was released complaining the movie was too bright compared to the theatrical experience!!! It didn't happen. Reviews on home video have been going on since the laserdisc format. No complaints on that one either. No complaints until the bluray.

You're absoultly correct.

This movie was strikingly beautiful at the theater. One of the people going to see it with me was specifically interested in the outdoor scenery. If it had looked like the blu does (without changing your settings) we wouldn't have been nearly as impressed. I'm quite certain at the theater the night scene in the graveyard wasn't almost completely black. That's pretty easy to remember.

Except that scene in particular has probably the highest black levels of any of the night scenes in the film.

In my opinion, that scene proves without any doubt that the Blu-ray disc is exactly as Mann intended, because if the black levels across the disc were wrong, as many people are trying to say, Cora and Hawkeye would have been absolutely swallowed in black. But they weren't.

The black levels in that scene were carefully tuned to keep everything visible.


There are other night scenes across the disc where the blacks are much darker than the burial ground scene, such as when Uncas is watching the Huron warriors sneaking through the woods, or the pan from the horizon to Hawkeye and Cora at the fort.

Those shots are very dark, but the subjects are always carefully illuminated.

Take the same bluray image you're watching at home on your rear projection CRT, blow it up to 40' wide, put it in a darkened theater in an age where people were used to seeing VHS quality at home, and I bet you would still consider it "strikingly beautiful".

Three "nay" votes from top-of-the-line plasmas.

I didn't change anything on my 55" sammy 8500. Not professionally calibrated...just tweaked with Spears & Munsil and other various amateur calibration discs. I thought the movie looked pretty good throughout.

Let me put it another way: I did not.

Maybe that's simple enough for you to understand, since subtlety evades you.

The DVD is also very dark.

The dvd is not near as dark as the bluray, not even close in the night scenes. Do a simultaneous comparison and you will see the difference. Since gamma changes now have nothing to do with a calibrated display your arguments are mute; as gamma is the main issue issue on this disc. Everything else can be set with a calibration disc and a good display device.

I think it's extremely funny to hear people "remembering" how the movie looked theatrically".
You, sirs, would make excellent witnesses.

I wouldn't trust your memory of a film from last year - let alone a film you saw 18 years ago.
Hilarious!

Considering how the Director's Expanded Edition DVD of "The Last of the Mohicans" is one of the most hated discs ever for changes made by the Director / Studio to the original Theatrical Cut, I don't see how anybody can use the DVD as a comparison for anything.

I can't think of a single film that has more fans hanging on to their original VHS copies, because of how much they hate the changes made to the DVD version of the film.