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What receiver/processor should replace my UMC-1?

post #1 of 19
4/14/10 at 12:00pm
Thread Starter 
It feels wasteful to me to have bought a 5-channel amp (XPA-5) and then I just end up buying a receiver w/ a built in 7 channel amp that would go unused.

Yet as I look around I have yet to see anyone running processors in my price range other than the UMC-1, which is what I have now, and I'm tired of being a beta tester for them. I have enough headaches caused by technology being than I'm an IT by day. I don't need to pay $800 to have a constant headache at home too.

So enough complaining about the UMC-1 and on to the question at hand.

What else is out there or will be out there soon that I should be considering? I'd like to keep things under $1000 after any applicable discounts (MSRP doesn't matter of course)... under $1500 I could manage for something truly worth it.

It seems to me that there are receivers out there offering features sets that ON PAPER look as good if not better than the UMC-1, even though I'm also in theory buying an amp from them as well. Am I missing something or does the UMC-1 really only have a strong value proposition when put next to those $5000 dollar sound processors that have been out on the market for a year or two now?

Just to give an example I've been looking at the Pioneer VSX-1120-K. MSRP $749
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...SX-1120-K.Kuro

It has a Marvell video processor which will upscale all sources including HDMI (how does this compare to the UMC's Cirrus?). It does HD-Audio, DTS-HD, PLIIZ (UMC is only PLIIX), HDMI 1.4 (UMC is only 1.3), it has its own room correction engine which I don't know how well it works but it surely can't work any worse than the UMC's Emo-Q (worthless), I'm guessing it has an 'all channel stereo' mode (party mode) whereas Emo deleted it from the UMC and isn't saying if they'll bring it back, it offers some other very cool features like iphone integration including remote control via iphone, LAN connectivity, room correction charts and controls on your PC..

And most of all... I'll bet it's going to 'just work' for the most part. Or at least it sure as hell won't drop audio and video, lock up and cause a new headache on an every other day basis.

And this is just one receiver I looked at after somebody told me about it. I haven't even begun looking at any other newer product offerings.
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post #2 of 19
4/14/10 at 12:34pm
I'm not personally familiar with the VSX-1120, but I upgraded from an old Dolby PL receiver to a VSX-23TXH. I believe you can still find them, though they're 2009-2010 models instead of 2010-2011.

It took me a week or two to really warm up to this receiver; I was used to a motorized volume control, manual settings for channel levels, delays, etc. on my old receiver. The auto room eq (MCACC) on the Pioneer works great. It also upscales video to HDMI, but all my sources (except for DVD's and SD channels on Dish) are HD. My Sony Blu-ray player and Epson projector work flawlessly with HDMI... none of the handshake issues or the switching of inputs to regain audio after changing channels or any of that stuff that I read about from users of other brands of receivers. The only glitch with my receiver is that unless Kuro Link (Pioneer's HDMI control) is turned on, my receiver will generally not turn on by remote. This issues is common to VSX-21's and -23's and possibly some other models, but it's correctable with a firmware update. I just leave Kuro Link on and don't have any issues with it at all.

Since that two week warm-up period, I've come to really appreciate and like this receiver. I find it easy to use, and it had lots of useful features - assignable and nameable inputs, multi-zone audio, HD surround modes, effective MCACC, etc. In case if doesn't have enough power, there are pre-outs for all channels so you can use your power amp. You should also be able to find one for well under your stated price. Oh, and I should add... I'm also in IT and the Pioneer just works.
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post #3 of 19
4/14/10 at 12:37pm
There are plenty of receivers that will do what the UMC1 does and do it without the headaches. From Onkyo there's the 707 and up to the 3007 in your range. From Yamaha the 665/775/1065 will all do it too. The Marantz's 5003/6003/7002 will also work although they do some funny things with Audyssey. And since you already have a very good amp there is also the Denon 3310. There's Pioneer Elites 21/23/SC 25 that use MCACC for their Eq programs that will also work very well. These receivers listed range from ~$300 to ~$1200. Find one that fits your needs and go for it. Good luck.
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post #4 of 19
4/14/10 at 12:41pm
Threxx,
I'm in the same boat as you, in fact I'm also looking at the 1120, but last I heard it wasn't supposed to be released until June. I may have to go back to my H/K for a while, depending on the Emo 30 day return and if they announce another firmware update.
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post #5 of 19
4/14/10 at 12:48pm
I am still on emotivas waiting list and was waiting for this last firmware update to see if it would cure a lot of their bugs.
From early reports it looks like the units a brick.
If I buy a new unit I want to use it,not do work arounds on a daily basis,send it in for firmware upgrades etc..
I guess you do get what you pay for.
FWIW,Denon 3310 is made in China,4310 in Japan.
The only problem I am aware of is their network card.Its faulty but they deny there is a problem.Other than that its reportedly a solid unit.
I will probably go the Denon route.
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post #6 of 19
4/14/10 at 12:49pm
Thread Starter 
Well I might be able to find some use for the built in amp.

If I take a couple of the receiver's channels and use them to power my surround sound speakers, I can then take the zone 2 preamp outputs and run them to my 2 newly freed channels on my XPA-5 and use that to run my 'whole house' audio system which uses a speaker cable based power distribution block to send audio to several pairs of speakers around the house. I've been thinking of buying a second amp for that duty so this would stop me from having to buy another amp assuming the Pioneer would do OK running my surrounds with the XPA-5 running the front three speakers.

Are there any features I'd be missing from the UMC-1 with the VSX-1120-K? I can't tell if the VSX has any trigger outputs. I do see something labeled 'control' and it has a single input and output and a cable size that looks similar to a trigger cable.

Thanks for the recommendations. I'll look into all of the receivers mentioned here.

But I guess as far as non-amplified units (processors) I'm out of luck. I guess the nature of separates is to generally cater to those with larger budgets.

The more I think about it the more I think the processor business was just a bad business for Emo to get into. They don't have an ultra high cost when it comes to parts... the big budget item is R&D... and they just don't seem to have the staff or sales volume to support working out all the kinks on their own. From what I've read it seems like they have a limited test lab and if it works with the equipment they have on hand with the settings they used, they assume it will work OK for everybody.
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post #7 of 19
4/14/10 at 12:49pm
The Integra 40.1 can be had for $1000, you just need to look in the right places

Anyway outside of that unit, one is stuck with an AVR - though some are indeed very capable. The UMC was indeed in a unique position in that regard.

If 2 channel analogue is really the end all be all than a 40.1 plus a USP-1/Parasound 2100 would prolly be your best bet.
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post #8 of 19
4/14/10 at 12:51pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICBM99 View Post

Threxx,
I'm in the same boat as you, in fact I'm also looking at the 1120, but last I heard it wasn't supposed to be released until June. I may have to go back to my H/K for a while, depending on the Emo 30 day return and if they announce another firmware update.

Well I don't even own another suitable receiver or processor. For a solid year I was using my Sharp Television is a receiver of sorts... just input switching and volume control. And that's what I'll have to go back to.

Honestly at this point I may return the UMC-1 even if Emo announces another firmware and return period extension. I just don't feel like I can trust them anymore.
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post #9 of 19
4/14/10 at 12:52pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixtytooneratio View Post

The only problem I am aware of is their network card.Its faulty but they deny there is a problem.Other than that its reportedly a solid unit.
I will probably go the Denon route.

Well the UMC doesn't even have a network connection so it would be an upgrade regardless.

What's wrong with the Denon's network card?
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post #10 of 19
4/14/10 at 1:00pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by D_Strasse View Post

The Integra 40.1 can be had for $1000, you just need to look in the right places

Anyway outside of that unit, one is stuck with an AVR - though some are indeed very capable. The UMC was indeed in a unique position in that regard.

If 2 channel analogue is really the end all be all than a 40.1 plus a USP-1/Parasound 2100 would prolly be your best bet.

I tend to do more blu-ray watching and game playing on PS3 than anything. I do some music listening but it's nothing serious... just MP3 playing off Zune Marketplace for working out or social gatherings.

How would the 40.1 compare to this new Pioneer unit?
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post #11 of 19
4/14/10 at 1:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threxx View Post

I tend to do more blu-ray watching and game playing on PS3 than anything. I do some music listening but it's nothing serious... just MP3 playing off Zune Marketplace for working out or social gatherings.

Where can the Integra 40.1 be found for under a grand? Used on ebay or...?

Nope, new and not on ebay.

I love the 40.1 for use with my PS3 - blus AND gaming but I think I will add a Parasound to the mix for 2.0 use. (Like to run my towers full range and so the USP-1 is out for me.)

As for the Pioneer - I might not be reading it right but it sounds like it isn't released yet.
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post #12 of 19
4/14/10 at 1:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threxx View Post

Well the UMC doesn't even have a network connection so it would be an upgrade regardless.

What's wrong with the Denon's network card?

Many lose the ability to connect to the internet.I can't give you the technical aspects but there are plenty of posts in the 3310 and 4310 threads that detail in depth the problems.
Hope this helps,good luck
P.S. the Denons have really come down in price,and with the new models about to hit the market you could probably grab one for a good price if you negotiate a bit
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post #13 of 19
4/14/10 at 1:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threxx View Post

Well I don't even own another suitable receiver or processor. For a solid year I was using my Sharp Television is a receiver of sorts... just input switching and volume control. And that's what I'll have to go back to.

Honestly at this point I may return the UMC-1 even if Emo announces another firmware and return period extension. I just don't feel like I can trust them anymore.

Dude TV speakers!! That sucks big time.

I swear I saw a 12v trigger on the 1120, but now I don't see it. Perhaps I was looking at the elite vsx 23txh. It also doesn't have a switched ac output that could be converted to a trigger. Back to the drawing board.
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post #14 of 19
4/14/10 at 1:23pm
For the MSRP for a non-Elite AVR, you can get the Elites for less. The 1019's were selling for almost the same price as the Elite 21's. In some cases more.
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post #15 of 19
4/14/10 at 1:37pm
Thread Starter 
Yeah the 1120 won't be out until late April or May from what I heard before... though I've also heard June. I've waited this long, I don't mind waiting another month or two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom52 View Post

For the MSRP for a non-Elite AVR, you can get the Elites for less. The 1019's were selling for almost the same price as the Elite 21's. In some cases more.

Oh so there's more markup or at least discounts are more easily accessed in the Elite models?

Well from what I've heard the current Elite lineup is going to be a tad antiquated in some ways by the new non-Elite lineup. Of course I'm sure they'll update the Elite lineup accordingly but who knows how much longer that will take. I haven't seen any press releases about that.
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post #16 of 19
4/14/10 at 1:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom52 View Post

For the MSRP for a non-Elite AVR, you can get the Elites for less. The 1019's were selling for almost the same price as the Elite 21's. In some cases more.

Exactly! I got my '23 for a great price from an authorized dealer... important if one wants the 2-year Pioneer Elite warranty. The Elites seem to have a few more features as well. I also notice that there are some differences in power ratings (from Pioneer's site):
For the '23: 110W x 7 (20Hz - 20kHz, .09% THD @ 8 ohms, All Channels Driven)
For the 1020: 80watts* per channel, min., at 8 ohms, from 20 Hz to 20 000 Hz with no more than 0.08 % total harmonic distortion.

As for the current Elites being outdated... there's only one feature I wish my '23 had - the ability for a user to update the firmware. I don't really care about streaming, as my Blu-ray player handles that. The Elites also have a trigger output for controlling power to amps.
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post #17 of 19
4/14/10 at 1:45pm
The problem I have (don't know about Threxx) is that I'm running outboard amplification, and need a AVR with preouts and would prefer a 12v trigger. Which I haven't seen (12v trigger) in the non elite models.

I'd also like to have at least 5 HDMI inputs but more would be better. That's why I really liked the 1120, plus some of the other features I'd like to try, but it doesn't have a damn 12v trigger! ugh.
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post #18 of 19
4/15/10 at 5:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threxx View Post

Well I might be able to find some use for the built in amp.

If I take a couple of the receiver's channels and use them to power my surround sound speakers, I can then take the zone 2 preamp outputs and run them to my 2 newly freed channels on my XPA-5 and use that to run my 'whole house' audio system which uses a speaker cable based power distribution block to send audio to several pairs of speakers around the house. I've been thinking of buying a second amp for that duty so this would stop me from having to buy another amp assuming the Pioneer would do OK running my surrounds with the XPA-5 running the front three speakers.

Not to go too far off topic, but could the zone 2 pre-out be used to power a second set of front speakers in a 2/1 set up for music?
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post #19 of 19
4/15/10 at 5:31pm
I like Audyssey-enabled receivers so Marantz, Onkyo, and Denon would all work.
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