What's this I hear about Power Cord upgrade? - Page 8

diomania,

This is the best you can come up with?

"Why should anyone pay attention to that link?"

Because objectivists have been asking for this data.

"Measurements from listening spot can show different results without changing any audio gears."

Only one cable was changed.

"Just wait till the room temperature or humidity changes. "

You are certain that there was a dramatic temperature or humidity change during the testing?

"People can hear a difference without changing any audio gears."

There were no 'hearing' graphs presented. This would be a (cough...) subjectivist argument.

"Just turn your head slightly or move it a few inches while music is playing."

Does this mean that the person holding the microphone turned his head?

Isn't it funny that when presented with data that is different than the textbooks of 40 year ago, the objectivists start scurrying into the corners and
come up with excuses.

Any other enlightening comebacks?

I have this in my garage AND my house. All the gear has been tested as I bought it "turn key".

Re: the OP, I am going to try some subjective power cable testing soon.


Ok, this is sig worthy.

Are we there yet?



He did not beat a hasty retreat.

He declined an amateurish test hinged around *vaporware hardware, and an untested unstandardized method, supposedly (but not guaranteed, it is lip service thus far) to be conducted by an unknown tester displaying a clear case of expectation bias.

And Joe did so with grace.

"He declined an amateurish ? Really? I make a and HONEST living in the professional audio visual business. In this biz, you cannot fail as the cost can be in the millions on a single job. toytest hinged around *vaporware hardware, and an untested unstandardized method, (the switching devices -solid state and EM contactors- and the connections are industry produced and are standard fare on millions of products)supposedly (but not guaranteed, it is lip service thus far) to be conducted by an unknown tester displaying a clear case of expectation bias."

It has been stated by the hawker of the wondrous cables that they are/were tested. By what equipment SPECIFICALLY and under what independent control?

Yoy accuse me of lip service on the construction of my system. I ask again HERE AND NOW for the equipment list and methodology used by the hawker of said cables to test these cables.
As I explained, I am working ion a large scale, complicated audio-follow-video source selection system in 3 languages simultaneously for a large church. I pay a bit more attention to my clients than to forum chatters.

It amuses me that you denigrate my designs and equipment with zero knowledge of the construction yourself.

When finished, I will post pics here.

over the last few weeks, I also contacted a few folks I work with (past and present) on the subject of cables. After the YHGTBK jokes, the consensus remains that no one else has seen any technical papers based on scientific testing either.

I have not posted as someone got their panties in a wad about my comments and the mods banned me, tsk tsk. As an adult I have a thicker skin I guess.

Well back to work here. I will still enjoy the pseudo technical comics here.

I realize this is an old thread, but I couldn't help but notice that Shunyata has recently published power cord tests and measurements.

http://www.shunyata.com/Content/DTCD-indepth.html

This could stir up some additional debate.

That should make my RANE processor sound even better. http://www.rane.com/pdf/old/pi14dat.pdf

It's advertising fluff, with nothing technical in there to explain how it works or why their measurement technique is applicable or even to show if there is some measured difference, that this difference is audible. Measuring pulsed currents in conductors is quite straight forward and has been easy to do with the appropriate gear for many years.

Impedance, current, voltage drop...nothing new. As long as the power cord is adequate for the purpose to start with, you won't have an audible improvement. And if you need a better one, there is no magic to finding one. Note that in the Q&A a section, they do recommend fairly accepted things like one or two dedicated circuits for AV, good quality receptacles (commercial grade, not voodoo audiophile), checking wiring connections, etc. And they say a quality power cord can be had for less than $100. So, if we follow their advice, we at least have an upper limit on the power cord craziness.

Reading some of what they have to say, one would think that the average AV engineer doesn't know that current doesn't flow at a continuous rate in the power cord...

The snake oilers are everywhere. The next market, computer drive cables.

http://www.malcolmsteward.co.uk/?p=2479

And don't forget Denon's famous ethernet cable

http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3429.asp#

wow 500 bucks! for 500 bucks it should be 3 packs of 1000' of plenum crimped at various lengths.

But that wouldn't be "ultra premium", would it.

You should be banned for life for reviving this thread.

He's also been known to hang out at dangerous railroad crossings with camera in tow.

LOL, I would concur....

How much longer until power cord upgrades become part of the teaparty manifesto?

how about KEEP THE POWER CORD PLUGGED INTO THE WALL SO YOUR EQUIPMENT TURNS ON.

There. Thread finished.

...sorry about that guys.

Wow. Thought I would try to revive this ancient thread, A lot of haters on this post about power cable hype. You must also believe that interconnects and speaker wire quality make no difference? There are major differences in power cables that justify why they are called the final touch in your audio system and also one of the most important. I don't think so many cable manufacturers would still be making a business selling just hype with no benefits for this long for little reason. I agree that there some very overpriced power cords compared to others. For instance the LAT International AC-2 (not MK-II) has outperformed any power cable I have ever heard. Even ones that I have heard at twice the price in crazy ways, but that may be with the systems I have owned. Primarily Two channel Tube and Solid State systems with near full-range studio monitors. And it may be that my ears happen to like it more.

Just like some people prefer brands of anything.. beer.. cigarettes.. don't forget the judgement of one's own ear! Cables can be good fun if you are willing to spend the money on them. Some people would buy a 4-wheeler and run the **** out of it and make it last about 2 years at most while you could spend the same money on some speakers that would give you great listening pleasure for 20 years.
I guess I just don't understand the logic in hating on something you don't understand and especially something like power cables. Let us be. Maybe some of you listen to **** music that is poorly recorded and these cables will bring out the worst in them? Ah well your loss. I still love my well made and more expensive power cables. More expensive for a reason that is. At least most of them as I hear it. And I am not the only one who notices the difference in this household which makes it all the better. Happy listening to all that can understand!

Why?

I think the bulk of his post went on to explain "why". Not that anything stated within that post was new and hasn't already been heard and fully addressed 100's of times before. Either he has somehow managed to not be exposed to all the counter-arguments and counter-evidence, or, he remains unconvinced by them. Just read, roll-eyes and move on.

Your first post digs up an old thread - and for what? To admit to over-paying for all manner of cabling? Or perhaps you think you can hear sounds more clearly than the majority of us simply by changing out a few basic cables? That you can hear things that can't be measured? This puts you in the category of an audiophool.

Welcome to AVS (Audio Video SCIENCE).

Now take your own good advice...and let us be.

Can't argue with that. I should have.

AV Science is only a name. This site is a webstore with a discussion board.

http://shop.avscience.com/

It's a new year. Can't the trolls be inventive and decent enough to start a new power cord thread, rather than resurrect an old? Sheesh.

Btw, I can hear power cords too. I've trained myself to do so and am now immune to perceptual errors. Don't be a hater.

Happy New year to all,

AJ

Believe? Is that what one has to do in audio, believe? WOW is right



Yep, some come with the component and some you buy for lots of
$$$$

Oh, really??? The final touch??? Most important??? WOW is right.


I guess you don't understand the marketplace very well and the human psychology then. WOW is right again



How come they are still in business by your thinking??? They should be long gone history, no?



And, no one will hate you for it


And, those that do are credible listeners??? Unbiased??? Certified expert listeners??? Based on what???

Wow. I thank you all. I just read this thread all the way through from start to finish. I am all worked up and must go meditate and calm myself down and then sleep. I have to wake up tomorrow morning and go to work.
I have enjoyed my days off and have enjoyed this thread.
I give thanks for all the diversity of opinions out there, no one could make this stuff up on their own, it takes many contributions to get a thread ripe as this one is.

I don't think its the majority of AVS members who don't understand power cables....

Once again, P.T. Barnum is proven correct.

Why isn't there an option when you left click on a name to add them to your ignore list along with the other choices?

It takes nothing special to find measureable differences among audio cables.

The question is: relevance?

Some things die for a reason.


Umm... you say Hate is an irrational emotion, so are you saying that all of who have reservations about the anti-science that is commonly used to hype these products are irrational?


Does that mean that you don't see the obvious differences between power cords which compose a tiny fraction of the line from the source to the load, and speaker cables and interconnects which compose the entire line from the source to the load?


There are differences among power cables, but there are differences among different examples of just about everything. Does your comment indicate that you believe that all differences are audible? Are you saying that you can hear differences between light purple power cables and dark purple power cables?


So, are you saying that the fact that commerce exists, is proof that the product involved is valid? Doesn't this deny the long history of say, the exposure and prosecution of medical quacks?


What color are these cables? I have found that since I like purple, in my opinion purple power cables outperform all other power cables when it comes to being my favorite color.


The essence of the controversy over power cables is that they don't make an audible difference. Why do you compare them to things like beer and cigarettes, which are well-known to very often taste different?

Is it a coincidence that your examples are things that many people consider to be vices?


Glad you brought that up. Isn't it true that there are no known instances of people actually reliably determining an audible difference among power cables given that they meet certain very basic requirements like being long enough to stretch the distance, and also able to carry the required power safely and in accordance with safety laws? If that's true then doesn't that show that the judgement of just the ears (no sight or other means of determining differences used) is that there is no difference?


Only if you think that spending money on audio gear with no known audible benefits is *fun*. I admit it. I still count my change when I leave the checkout counter. ;-)


Actually, if I don't waste money on megabuck speaker cables like you suggest, I can do both - have a great stereo and also the 4-wheeler.



That would appear to be a claim that everybody who has reservations about the pseudo science that is used to sell power cables is in fact ignorant.

Are you trying to make friends or enemies?