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What's this I hear about Power Cord upgrade? - Page 12

post #331 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

I myself spend some time here on this tiny Forum. I only refuse to have a conversation with A because he comes across as a scientific fundamentalist, kindalike Richard Dawkins (who i consider to be a out of control scientist). Aside from that A comes across as very knowledgeable and i do read his audio related posts with great interest.

I can see why some folks do not feel at ease on this tiny Forum. This is just a tiny Forum and when folks like A express their opinion there is very little room left. Just like the knowledgeable folks the non knowledgeable folks love for audio is genuine. So please give 'em some room to express their opinion/love too on this tiny Forum smile.gifwink.gif

I agree. Besides, if someone has a compelling point of view, then it will stand out based on its merit, not because they needed to belittle someone else in the process of making it.

I have always enjoyed both sides of the debate and I've incorporated both objective and subjective observations into my decision making...that's just what works best for me.
post #332 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summa View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

I myself spend some time here on this tiny Forum. I only refuse to have a conversation with A because he comes across as a scientific fundamentalist, kindalike Richard Dawkins (who i consider to be a out of control scientist). Aside from that A comes across as very knowledgeable and i do read his audio related posts with great interest.

I can see why some folks do not feel at ease on this tiny Forum. This is just a tiny Forum and when folks like A express their opinion there is very little room left. Just like the knowledgeable folks the non knowledgeable folks love for audio is genuine. So please give 'em some room to express their opinion/love too on this tiny Forum smile.gifwink.gif

I agree. Besides, if someone has a compelling point of view, then it will stand out based on its merit, not because they needed to belittle someone else in the process of making it.

I have always enjoyed both sides of the debate and I've incorporated both objective and subjective observations into my decision making...that's just what works best for me.

Lightly veiled personal attack, belittling and a "me too" noted.

What was it that you said about keeping it cordial?

Obviously you don't want it to apply to certain people, like you and your supporters.

Next!
post #333 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Lightly veiled personal attack, belittling and a "me too" noted.

What was it that you said about keeping it cordial?

Obviously you don't want it to apply to certain people, like you and your supporters.

Next!

My supporters? You lost me, man...

How bout if we get back to talking about audio?
post #334 of 378
BTW, for anyone who knows Frank Van Alstine of Audio by Van Alstine, he decided to conduct some informal trials of power cords over at Audio Circle. It was a while ago that he posted it, but it was an interesting read.

Unless someone tracks it down before I get a chance, I'll try to post it in just a bit.
post #335 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summa View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Lightly veiled personal attack, belittling and a "me too" noted.

What was it that you said about keeping it cordial?

Obviously you don't want it to apply to certain people, like you and your supporters.

Next!

My supporters? You lost me, man...

How bout if we get back to talking about audio?

I've been doing it all along while you were attacking me and piling on other attacks. Just right click my name below my avatar, and select "all posts"

Do as I do? ;-)
post #336 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summa View Post

BTW, for anyone who knows Frank Van Alstine of Audio by Van Alstine, he decided to conduct some informal trials of power cords over at Audio Circle. It was a while ago that he posted it, but it was an interesting read.

Unless someone tracks it down before I get a chance, I'll try to post it in just a bit.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=64137.msg587603#msg587603

Post 20.

Just another example of why nobody who knows what they are doing does single blind tests. Ever hear of Clever Hans?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clever_Hans

Single Blind tests were debunked over 200 years ago, but some people never seem to have received the memo. ;-)
post #337 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

I've been doing it all along while you were attacking me and piling on other attacks. Just right click my name below my avatar, and select "all posts"

Do as I do? ;-)

Arny I've been around here since 2005....never once been cited by a mod for attacking anyone. Seems like it's more that you dont' like my opinion that it's inappropriate to call people naive, intellectually weak, pathetic, or anything of the sort. Sorry you feel that way, but that's how I see it. To me, it seems like the adult thing to do would be to stop making such comments, cause it's sort of lame to have a mod take time out of their day to address someone who can't control their behavior. But that's certainly preferable to continuing this pointless banter, so have it your way.
post #338 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summa View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

I've been doing it all along while you were attacking me and piling on other attacks. Just right click my name below my avatar, and select "all posts"

Do as I do? ;-)

Arny I've been around here since 2005....never once been cited by a mod for attacking anyone.

That's good but its not necessarily a nomination for beatification.

Quote:
Seems like it's more that you don't like my opinion that it's inappropriate to call people naive, intellectually weak, pathetic, or anything of the sort.

So great, let that be a thing for me to consider and you stop saying it over and over again.
Quote:
Sorry you feel that way, but that's how I see it. To me, it seems like the adult thing to do would be to stop making such comments, cause it's sort of lame to have a mod take time out of their day to address someone who can't control their behavior. But that's certainly preferable to continuing this pointless banter, so have it your way.

Tell me how incessantly complaining about the same thing and calling out pretty much the same person again and again is any different from what you are complaining about.

If you want to be a good example, please be my guest!

I will find it to be a good encouragement. As things sit, its been way too easy to throw your own words back at you.

But I listen to what you say and generally agree with the basic idea, anyway.

Maybe you haven't learned that if you preach about something you need to be really clean about it. Here is some friendly advice: It's true.

Go forth and do good things! ;-)
post #339 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

That's good but its not necessarily a nomination for beatification.
So great, let that be a thing for me to consider and you stop saying it over and over again.
Tell me how incessantly complaining about the same thing and calling out pretty much the same person again and again is any different from what you are complaining about.

If you want to be a good example, please be my guest!

I will find it to be a good encouragement. As things sit, its been way too easy to throw your own words back at you.

But I listen to what you say and generally agree with the basic idea, anyway.

Maybe you haven't learned that if you preach about something you need to be really clean about it. Here is some friendly advice: It's true.

Go forth and do good things! ;-)


Ahh, great idea!
post #340 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summa View Post

Thanks, this site fits within my preferences just fine smile.gif
Your earlier posts today tell otherwise.
post #341 of 378
Quote:
Thanks, this site fits within my preferences just fine
Then stop complaining.
post #342 of 378
I really do not concern myself with any subjective testing anyone does that arrives at any conclusion regardless of whether it can be shown to be a perceived impression as opposed to one that can be scientifically proven. Anyone who wants to is perfectly capable of spending their money on audio gear that makes an audible difference or not, and I'm sure most objectivists could not possibly care less.

The real importance of debunking myths, and audio subjective non-truths is in educating those new to the hobby who have not yet learned the difference between real, measurable performance attributes, and those which are not in any manner scientifically quantifiable. Neophytes should know, at the very least, what noticeably affects the quality of their audio system, such that they can use an often limited budget wisely.

The best examples of the importance of exotic cables, interconnects, and power cords in this forum, for me, come from the VERY EXPENSIVE home theater build section. Best of everything important, and yet almost universally utilitarian interconnects, speaker wire, and stock power cords. Surely these folks could, and would afford better cables if there were such a thing.
post #343 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summa View Post

Arny I've been around here since 2005....never once been cited by a mod for attacking anyone. Seems like it's more that you dont' like my opinion that it's inappropriate to call people naive, intellectually weak, pathetic, or anything of the sort. Sorry you feel that way, but that's how I see it. To me, it seems like the adult thing to do would be to stop making such comments, cause it's sort of lame to have a mod take time out of their day to address someone who can't control their behavior. But that's certainly preferable to continuing this pointless banter, so have it your way.

Ironic. You are now part of "the problem"you are try to alleviate. Use the 'report post' icon and report yourself. biggrin.gif
post #344 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pet Motel View Post

I really do not concern myself with any subjective testing anyone does that arrives at any conclusion regardless of whether it can be shown to be a perceived impression as opposed to one that can be scientifically proven. Anyone who wants to is perfectly capable of spending their money on audio gear that makes an audible difference or not, and I'm sure most objectivists could not possibly care less.

The real importance of debunking myths, and audio subjective non-truths is in educating those new to the hobby who have not yet learned the difference between real, measurable performance attributes, and those which are not in any manner scientifically quantifiable. Neophytes should know, at the very least, what noticeably affects the quality of their audio system, such that they can use an often limited budget wisely.

The best examples of the importance of exotic cables, interconnects, and power cords in this forum, for me, come from the VERY EXPENSIVE home theater build section. Best of everything important, and yet almost universally utilitarian interconnects, speaker wire, and stock power cords. Surely these folks could, and would afford better cables if there were such a thing.


Great post. This is exactly the type of info that will help someone become more familiar with the factors at play in terms of putting together a great system.
post #345 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post

Ironic. You are now part of "the problem"you are try to alleviate. Use the 'report post' icon and report yourself. biggrin.gif

I don't really see it that way. What I've taken issue with is people calling others such things as naive, intellectually weak, pathetic, or anything along those lines. That's not really my style.
post #346 of 378

Enough guys...move along.

post #347 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pet Motel View Post

The best examples of the importance of exotic cables, interconnects, and power cords in this forum, for me, come from the VERY EXPENSIVE home theater build section. Best of everything important, and yet almost universally utilitarian interconnects, speaker wire, and stock power cords. Surely these folks could, and would afford better cables if there were such a thing.

If there was a verifiable (in other words, NOT subjective) difference between these products (like, for example, there's a verifiable and established difference between, say, speakers) I'd be drooling to own them.

It's not the envy of the rich - and their buying power. I'm growing tired of hearing that
post #348 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post

Hueyoz - Check out this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/t/941184/observations-of-a-controlled-cable-test/0_50

IIRC the host of the test had an audio room built in his barn that was designed by an audio acoustic expert. (The room itself cost something like $75,000.00 before equipment - there are pics around somewhere - here or Agon). And he "swore" up and down that power cords made a difference in his setup.

larry
Just in case anyone is interested:
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vaslt&1036349020

I am pretty sure the studio cost an awful lot more if I am not mistaken. My memory is high 6 figures or low 7.

Actually, this is a much better show of his setup;)
http://cgi.audioasylum.com/systems/663.html
post #349 of 378
No problem reproducing the bass with that setup. wink.gif
post #350 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesJ View Post

Just in case anyone is interested:
http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?vaslt&1036349020

I am pretty sure the studio cost an awful lot more if I am not mistaken. My memory is high 6 figures or low 7.

Actually, this is a much better show of his setup;)
http://cgi.audioasylum.com/systems/663.html

It's a pretty impressive setup, BUT let me ask you something, has anyone here been in a recording studio? Recording studios don't use fancy cables, don't use cable lifters, and don't use fancy power cords. As a matter of fact if you saw the cable management in most studios you would probably want to kill the guy who it set up, yet recording studios sound better than what you'll hear in any high-end stereo. Pink Floyd is an example of this.

Here's what I don't get; companies like McIntosh spend millions developing amplifiers, so you mean to tell me that these engineers, who have degrees, are not aware of the effects of power cables but some guys on the internet are? rolleyes.gif That's like putting better spark plug wires in your car although the engineers have used the best wires for the plugs.

AWG is the only important factor in power cords but that's only a factor in amplifiers that use 1 kw +. I'm basing this on my experience of running a PA system.
post #351 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbeam418 View Post



It's a pretty impressive setup, BUT let me ask you something, has anyone here been in a recording studio? Recording studios don't use fancy cables, don't use cable lifters, and don't use fancy power cords. As a matter of fact if you saw the cable management in most studios you would probably want to kill the guy who it set up, yet recording studios sound better than what you'll hear in any high-end stereo. Pink Floyd is an example of this.

Here's what I don't get; companies like McIntosh spend millions developing amplifiers, so you mean to tell me that these engineers, who have degrees, are not aware of the effects of power cables but some guys on the internet are? rolleyes.gif That's like putting better spark plug wires in your car although the engineers have used the best wires for the plugs.

AWG is the only important factor in power cords but that's only a factor in amplifiers that use 1 kw +. I'm basing this on my experience of running a PA system.

It is a very impressive setup but the cables, cable elevators and power cords aren't the reason. The speakers and listening room are the reason. The cables etc make no difference at all either in a recording studio or in a home stereo.
post #352 of 378
here's one of the main reason I don't use expensive cables: Most of us have probably heard of the dirty window pane example. You have six window panes lined up front to back. Five of the panels are crystal clear with not a spec of dirt on them. But one of the panels is still dirty. So when you line them all up in a row and look through, that ONE dirty panel messes up the entire view even though the other five are perfect.

Even if expensive cables had some audible improvement to offer, you're still connecting them to the same speaker/amp terminals, internal wiring, etc that you always have. To me, those are the dirty window panes. You terminate the wire with bananas or spades and you have more of the same. I would think that if there was any benefit to better cables, you'd need to have the entire signal path all the way to the drivers made of the same material as the cables.

I typically buy from BlueJeans, and I actually first heard of them via a banner ad here on AVS many years ago. They aren't the least expensive, but for a little more money I get custom options and better build quality than some of the uber budget options I've tried before. I recently had them build me a 20' headphone cable for my Audeze phones...much more durable than the stock cable, which for me is worth a few extra bucks.
post #353 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hueyoz View Post

And your point is ...???

you will be right at home over at polk audio forums. you'll have many like minded thinking, I think you should check them out.biggrin.gif
post #354 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hueyoz View Post

And your point is ...???

you will be right at home over at polk audio forums. you'll have many like minded thinking, I think you should check them out.biggrin.gif

+1.

one of the most brutal & subjective audio forums on the interwebs.
post #355 of 378
Exclusive too. They wouldn't let me join.
post #356 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post

Exclusive too. They wouldn't let me join.
Do they screen or something like it?
post #357 of 378
Quote:
Do they screen or something like it?
I was on there for a week or two (I had a pair of classic Polks to sell), and nobody tried to kick me off. But the place is just wall-to-wall Kool-Aid drinkers, and intolerant pricks besides. Which was kinda bizarre, given that the central point of the forum is a range of mass-market speakers. I mean, if their ears are good enough to hear differences in speaker cables, why are they buying Polk speakers?
post #358 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post

I mean, if their ears are good enough to hear differences in speaker cables, why are they buying Polk speakers?
I LOL'd.
post #359 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by spkr View Post

Do they screen or something like it?

Yes. Like any forum they send an email to validate your joining. They didn't send me the email.
post #360 of 378
Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post

I mean, if their ears are good enough to hear differences in speaker cables, why are they buying Polk speakers?
I LOL'd.

so did I, and I like polk speakers. cool.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by spkr View Post

Do they screen or something like it?

Yes. Like any forum they send an email to validate your joining. They didn't send me the email.

lol they already knew you are on the objective side of things and were afraid of the truths and wisdom you'd bring.....cant rock the boat now can they.
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