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Design of room, space around things and speaker placement?

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
Hi,
I am guessing this has been answered before, but when I searched I couldn't find anything that clearly answered the question.

I am building a new house and I am designing a room for a home theatre (fixed projector screen). However, I am unsure about how to correctly configure the room. I want the room to be the right size (and shape) for HD viewing and good audio reproduction.

I am tending toward a 19' (6m) length x 13' (4m) width x 10' (3m) height room. Single row of seats.

This is what I have learned from my research so far:
- for audio, the room should have 'active' (the end where the screen is) and 'dead' (the end where the seats are) zones. Using a bookshelf full of books can create a 'dead' zone.

- for audio the walls running perpendicular to the screen should not be parallel. Using a false wall to create a angle can achieve this.

- for audio the room dimensions should not be evenly divisible by each other

- for the image there are THX and visual acuity guidelines that say how far the viewer should be from an image of a certain size and resolution. I got a spreadsheet that calculates this stuff at carltonbale dot com

- there are sound dampening solutions from internal wall manufacturers that will reduce the sound that escapes from the home theatre room

What I don't know is:
- how much space to have either side of the screen
- how much space to have behind the seats
- how much space to have between the speakers (7.1) and the walls; alternatively should the rear/side speakers be mounted on the wall
- where to mount the projector on the ceiling; in front or behind the seats
- where is a good place to have the door into the room; rear wall centre or rear wall left/right
- should the walls next to the sub-woofer be brick/concrete instead of gyprock

I know that what I don't know can be complex to answer; but all I'm after is general guidance for good/very good sound and image reproduction. Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks,
Ty
post #2 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyn View Post

Hi,

I am tending toward a 19' (6m) length x 13' (4m) width x 10' (3m) height room. Single row of seats.

Why? Provide the entire possible area and you'll get plenty of input... Start with the question of "how many people do I want to comfortably seat and how many people do I have over or want to have over reguarly?" That's a good place to start... I'm not a professional, but there are many here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyn View Post

This is what I have learned from my research so far:
- for audio, the room should have 'active' (the end where the screen is) and 'dead' (the end where the seats are) zones. Using a bookshelf full of books can create a 'dead' zone.

You will likely need to rethink this... Send a PM to Bpape... He is a good guy and a professional in this area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyn View Post

- for audio the walls running perpendicular to the screen should not be parallel. Using a false wall to create a angle can achieve this.

Never heard this one... I've heard of ratios... I've heard of avoiding a box...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyn View Post

- for audio the room dimensions should not be evenly divisible by each other

yup...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyn View Post

- for the image there are THX and visual acuity guidelines that say how far the viewer should be from an image of a certain size and resolution. I got a spreadsheet that calculates this stuff at carltonbale dot com

great site... great calculator... but these are guidelines with a wide range between closest and furthest... keep that in mind... go with what works for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyn View Post

- there are sound dampening solutions from internal wall manufacturers that will reduce the sound that escapes from the home theatre room

Check out the sticky on acoustics and room treatments... there is a big difference between isolation and dampening... isolation regards keeping sounds from escaping, but the real intent is keeping the room quiet to hear the sounds generated by your components. Dampening refers to treatment of sound waves within the theater... And a lot of this can be done with reguarly available materials.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyn View Post

What I don't know is:
- how much space to have either side of the screen

no formula that I know for this other than consideration of speakers... planning on in-walls or free standing? acoustically transparent (AT) screen or non AT screen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyn View Post

- how much space to have behind the seats

You need to allow for at least 3' behind the rear row of seats for surround sound considerations...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyn View Post

- how much space to have between the speakers (7.1) and the walls; alternatively should the rear/side speakers be mounted on the wall

Not sure what you are asking here... please clarify.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyn View Post

- where to mount the projector on the ceiling; in front or behind the seats

Depends on the projector... and desired size... and aesthetics... what kind of image do you like? Have you auditioned various projectors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyn View Post

- where is a good place to have the door into the room; rear wall centre or rear wall left/right

This is a sound issue... I'll let more qualified and knowledgeable speak to this, but I "think" center back is preferrable...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyn View Post

- should the walls next to the sub-woofer be brick/concrete instead of gyprock

Depends on the sub, but generally, "no"... are you planning on using a manufactured sub or an infinite baffle sub?

Lots more reading and learning to do... Hard to do when motivated, but be patient and learn before doing... check out the thread I started about instructional builds to gather more information than you can shake a stick at... You'll have lots of questions, but that's a good thing...
post #3 of 11
Thread Starter 
Wow! Thanks for the advice.

I'm starting with 19' (6m) length x 13' (4m) width x 10' (3m) height room dimensions because it fits reasonably well into my current house design. But, if it is too small then I'll consider altering the house design. Almost all the time all I need is a single row of 3 seats.

The bit about not having long parallel walls came from reading about sound wave reflection. My understanding is that the sound waves will reflect off the walls and cause audio peaks and troughs. Putting an angle in one or both of the walls reduces the sound reflections from interfering with each other. I expect your advice on wall treatments is a better solution though.

My query about the rear speakers is talking about the amount of free space around the speakers. My understanding is that speakers need some free space around them to allow them to 'pump' the air for good sound. I guess what I should really be asking is if it is better to have the surround speakers mounted on the walls or free standing?

With the projector I am going to mount on the ceiling and I am wondering if the noise it generates is better in front, behind or directly above the viewer. I haven't started looking for a new projector; I expect that will also be a steep learning curve.

The sub will be a manufactured one.

Thanks again for the advice. It is a great help.
post #4 of 11
Quote:


The bit about not having long parallel walls came from reading about sound wave reflection. My understanding is that the sound waves will reflect off the walls and cause audio peaks and troughs.

Oh, that science is very true; however, you will not get an angle large enough to make a twits bit of difference in a residential sized room. A minimum of six degrees for a SOLID not false wall, can have benefit; but, you're referring to low frequency modal response ... so, don't waste your time on that. Acoustic treatments? No one can tell you what treatments need to go where until the room is laid out and configured.

So ... step one .... how many seats, how many rows, where is the door going to be, etc. With that screen size can be determined, seating distance can be sorted out, speaker locations determined and then a treatment strategy can be developed.
post #5 of 11
Thread Starter 
Thanks Dennis. I appreciate the help.

I think I should make some decisions now and see where it takes me.

- room dimensions: 19' (6m) length x 13' (4m) width x 10' (3m) height room
- room shape: rectangle
- seating: single row; 3 person couch
- doors: 1 on rear wall, centre
- windows: none
- components: front projection system mounted on ceiling; 7.1 audio, floor standing front left/right speakers, floor standing sub, wall mounted side/rear speakers, centre speaker on top of a cabinet at the bottom of the screen
- AV equipment location: cabinet under screen
- projector location: based on the projector specs

Based on the info at carltonbale dot com I can do a 110" (2.8m) screen with seating 172" (4.37m) from screen. This leaves about 60" (1.5m) behind the seat. Also, the dolby digital site has the angles (from the viewer) that I should place the speakers.

Can anyone see any problems with this?

Next is to educate myself on wall treatments, other furnishings; and projectors; and projector screens.
post #6 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyn View Post

Next is to educate myself on wall treatments.

This isn't something you can tick off in an afternoon.......trust me I've tried

Thats a real nice size - room for two rows if you wanted, plently of height.

Or you could go with a transparent screen, the depth would allow it with a single row. But if you've got floor standers you probably want to show them off?
post #7 of 11
Thread Starter 
OMG! I just had a quick read through your Downunder Theatre MkII link. This is really going to be an education for me...

Luckily I've got quite a while to design this; and I'm keen to make it as good as I can afford.

I just moved my seat forward in my current (very basic) home theatre to see what it might be like to have a front row. I was surprised how nice it was to be 'engulfed' by the picture. I think I will seriously reconsider only having a single row of seats.

The discussion about ambient noise level was also enlightening. I noticed you have a hush box for your projector. I wonder if something similar would work for the other AV components (amp, Tivo, PS3, Wii, X-Box360)?

Thanks for the advice and thumbs up on room size.
post #8 of 11
With a 110" diagonal screen (the same size as mine), you can certainly get the seating closer than 172" (14.3 feet). My HT is 20 feet deep and I have two rows of seats -- front row of 3 seats and back row of 4 seats. First row viewers' eyes are at 11 ft. from the screen and the back row viewers are 15 ft. from the screen. These values fall within the THX guidelines for viewing angles and distances.

My surround speakers are wall-mounted. I've tried moving speakers away from the walls and also mounted them directly on the walls. I couldn't tell much of a difference, it any. So don't worry too much about "ruining the sound" by wall-mounting your surrounds. They'll be just fine.

This, of course, assumes you have a front/side entry door. You have indicated that you will have "doors: 1 on rear wall, centre". Not the best configuration.

However, if you absolutely *MUST* have a center-located rear entry door, you'll probably be limited to one row of seating. And the wall-mounted speakers might get in the way of people entering the room and walking around the seats. But I would make a serious effort to relocate that door towards the front of the room along the side wall to make room for more seating.

Until you research the HT builds on this forum and really look into all the details about soundproofing, ventilation, speaker layout, projector mounting considerations, wall treatments, etc., I wouldn't set anything in stone. It took me several months of research before I felt really confident that I knew what I was doing. And even though I'm in the middle of my build, I still learn something new every day and have to tweak things here and there with my build.
post #9 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyn View Post

I think I should make some decisions now and see where it takes me.

Since you have plenty of time, I would recommend using your "decisions" as guidelines for now and do lots more research and learning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyn View Post

- room dimensions: 19' (6m) length x 13' (4m) width x 10' (3m) height room

Plenty of width for a single couch and walk paths around each side. 10' height is fabulous. 19' depth would allow for 2 rows of seating if you would like to have that flexibility. Eyes of the rear row would be at 16' from the screen, eyes of the front row would be at 10' from the screen, with 3' behind the seating area for surround concerns. All seats within THX standards. Your doorway will be fine in the back as 3' is plenty of space for entering and exiting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyn View Post

- room shape: rectangle

Good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyn View Post

- seating: single row; 3 person couch

I would really think hard about the decision to add another row. Your friends will want to come over once the 110 inches of high definition glory gets in place... I personally have a dual couch setup in my current theater. Couches add a lot of flexibility compared to theater chairs...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyn View Post

- doors: 1 on rear wall, centre

That's fine. Some of the sound guys may chime in more...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyn View Post

- windows: none

Great!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyn View Post

- components: front projection system mounted on ceiling; 7.1 audio, floor standing front left/right speakers, floor standing sub, wall mounted side/rear speakers, centre speaker on top of a cabinet at the bottom of the screen

Do you currently have any of these components or have some other reason for nailing this down? front projection - great; 7.1 audio - great; floor standing speakers - why?; floor standing sub(s) - ok; wall mounted surrounds - great; if you only go with one row of seating, you might want to think long and hard about an acoustically transparent screen and having the front speakers located behind the screen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyn View Post

- AV equipment location: cabinet under screen

You may want to rethink this as well... Component lights can be a distraction. This also means that the heat generated from the components will be in the room with you. You may want to consider an equipment closet at the rear or side of the room.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyn View Post

- projector location: based on the projector specs

Do you know what "kind" of projector you like? DLP, LCOS, LCD...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tyn View Post

Next is to educate myself on wall treatments, other furnishings; and projectors; and projector screens.

As mentioned, you won't pick it up overnight...
post #10 of 11
Oh, and btw... Dennis is a world-class professional in this industry, so I'd take very serious note of the inputs he provides.
post #11 of 11
Since you're theater is part of a new house build, that means you will have to deal with building codes and requirements. Mine too was part of a new build. We had to fight (and fight and fight and fight) with the building department as they were insisting that the room include windows. In the end we were able to eliminate the windows but only because there was a second door for emergency egress. Something to look into before you get too far. Also you will have to conform to HVAC and electrical codes (which among other things, require an electrical outlet every 6 feet).

You could certainly cram in a second row of seats but it might end up very close to the back wall, which is bad acoustically for the rear viewers at least. My theater is 13 x 21 by 8 and there was plenty of room for the back row. Though, if you're going to go with couches rather than recliners, your rows can be a little closer together.

Of course, if you add a second row, you'll probably want to put in a riser. But you've got plenty of ceiling height.

If there is any way to put the entry door on a side wall it will make the seating layout easier. If the door has to be in the back wall, you might try moving it to the corner, so you can still fit a couch in as a second row.

A lot of projectors are so quiet now that you don't need a hush box. Most AV equipment makes very little noise, but all those little lights on the front can be annoying, particularly if the equipment is in you line of sight while watching the screen.

Are you going to double wall your theater for sound isolation? If so, it will take about 6 to 8 inches off the width and length. Double walls are a good idea, especially if any of the walls adjoin a bedroom.

My room is the same width, and I put in a 2:35 acoustically transparent screen that is 114 inches wide. seems just about the perfect size. Be careful to avoid the temptation to go almost wall to wall with the screen. Might create problems with reflected light bouncing back and washing out the screen (depending on wall color and treatments, course). If you've not thought about an AT screen, you should. It's (IMHO) the ultimate way to enjoy theater sound. But the screen does have to be placed off the wall a bit, which will shorten your viewing distance.

As for speaker placement, the Dolby website has a really good guide to optimum speaker placement:

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/setup/...ide/index.html

Good luck, and have fun!
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