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Need some home Theater advice - Page 2

post #31 of 296
4/29/10 at 4:34am
Truth be told, a properly set up single center channel wil ALWAYS outperform a dual center channel where dialogue intelligablity is concerned. Coming from the speaker design side of things, it creates just about every problem that a good design and crossover looks to overcome.

As to the drop down screeen, i'll have some time to discuss some oprions tonight. ZI'm confused about your earlier comment on the fireplace will be too hot? Do you plan on running the fireplace while you're watcing a movie????
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post #32 of 296
4/29/10 at 7:00am
Thread Starter 
Mayhem,

When I made the decision to install the fireplace a few years ago, I did not realise the delima I would have with the center channel, so I thought at the time I could just split them. I have been doing this for several years, but I'm not a pro at this home theater, so with them split sounded good to me, maybe I don't know what I've been missing.....

I would suppose I would have a fire going while watching a movie, this basement is old and cold, and this was the reason behind of having a fp to begin with.

In the pic I posted where you see the basement with the fireplace with the little tv on it, the room dimmension is 12.5' wide x 28 feet deep, and it goes around a corner ( basement is L shaped ) and there is another area there, I will try to post a floor plan with dimmensions later, I'm working with my fireplace installer on moving it, but it's gonna cost some extra $$$ either way I go.

My intensions on this area was just an entertainment area and not totally a theater area. There is a difference on having them seperate, I see so many compromises on trying to do both in the smaller areas.

I have not had any experience with projectors and screens, I know its the way to go, not sure how the drop down screens work without having creases, and what not.

Hopefully the fireplace guy can make it to my place tonight, and we can get this resolved very soon, my carpenter is being very patient with me, thankfully he has some other jobs to attend to while I make some decisions....
I'm installing a 4th bedroom in the basement as well, so It's been dificult trying to decide on lighting, and doing everything I can to the outside, so when I sheetrock the ceilings, it's future proof.

Really I'm just trying to do something that people will like, it will look cool, and it will help sell the house, so I can move and buy something else and put more effort into something where I want to stay for many years to come.
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post #33 of 296
4/29/10 at 11:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheaterChad View Post

This was built buy an avid avs member on this forum, he did this up-stairs in the main floor of his house, and he LOVES it!! Guess there might be something good from this after-all, lol.......



I really like that setup with the stone, I was actually debating between doing the same thing with my fireplace or painting over my current faux brick and matching the colour to the upper portion.

I'm planning on removing the top 3 layers of brick and then lower the mantle to allow room for a 50' tv. I've already tested the heat with a thermometer taped to the wall and checking the temps before and after the fire has been on for awhile.

I don't mean to thread jack on TheaterChad but can I get some opinions on placing the centre speaker on the duct area above the future tv vs on the floor below the fireplace?

p.s. don't mind the hanging speaker wire, I just finished painting just before taking the pic and just left it there

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post #34 of 296
4/29/10 at 12:19pm
Thread Starter 
Hey Tasty:

Your fireplace looks almost identical to mine, and you have pretty much the exact same situation as me.

My quote you have above, we only mentioned that the pic showed only a stereo set-up, not a theater set-up. In the pic there's only two small speakers on the cabinets to each side.

I don't know what to say on where to put the center, the only way is all the way to the top towards the ceiling and pivot the speaker towards the seating area, unless you have some room, you could use tap-cons and drill into your bricks that is if you have clearance between the lowest row of blocks and where the bottom of the flat pannel will be. I think you'd want to be a minimum of so many inches away from the edge of the fireplace, even if its a zero clearance, with a blower, the heat does build up at the edge of the fireplace, especially if its been running for a few hours.

This is why I might be re-locating my fireplace and going with a projector screen, and putting all my klipsch ( 6 of them ) in the front, behind a screen.
Hopefully find out tonight.
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post #35 of 296
4/29/10 at 5:58pm
WHAT!!! After all of that you are thinking about covering up or moving the fireplace and going a projector route?????????????? Maybe my gentle nudging on mounting height finally persuaded you????

Hmmmmmmmmm..............................

Regards,

RTROSE

J/K of course, couldn't resist.
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post #36 of 296
4/29/10 at 7:34pm
Chad......try and step back for just a minute and examine exactly what your needs or what you're trying to achieve performance wise. Watching a movie with a distracting roaring fire is far from what most of us have ever considered as it's a bit far from the optimal condition.

Now here's something to consider especially if you're considering resale value.......

Leave the fireplace location as is and frame and cover it tastefully with a material that potential buyers would like and not too expensive to install. Design it like the sample you posted with built ins on either side with closed door cabinetry on the bottom and open shelving above. Potential buyers LOVE this kinda stuff and it allows you a place to put the AV gear as well as media storage. A very EASY project to DIY with readymade prefinished cabinetry from big box stores and some hardwood and moulding.

Use the long (28ft) wall as your screen wall and employ a DIY fixed frame screen (about $150 materials plus some sweat) that can easily be removed. Potential buyers would rather see that the space can be returned to a living/flexible space than a more dedicated area. Position the seating on the opposing wall which gives you about 11.5' viewing distance......perfect for a 100" 16:9 screen. Locate the projector overhead of the seating area. Great performing PJ's can be had for less than a 50" flat screen and there's NO WAY a 50" can hold up to a 100" projected image. My PJ is a Mitsu 1500 that i paid $599 and my 50" Panny G15 can't hold a candle to the projected image....even at 720P!

Now if you consider an L shaped seating or sectional you create a movable room divider that defines two spaces and would leave the rear of the room approx 14x12 for whatever........casual seating, gaming, bar area....WHATEVER. This arrangement also moves the fireplace out of the line of visual connection to the screen....therefore minimal distraction and still a comfortable space for gatherings or when it's cold. My point is keep the space flexible. A potential buyer is going to want to see the big open space for what it is with their own vision for entertaining WITHOUT remodeling costs as the kicker. It also allows for lowering the expense for you to create the media space and allows for easy mobility of the gear. In this option the center channel is simply placed under the screen on a simple stand angles up at the listening area.
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post #37 of 296
4/29/10 at 8:36pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTROSE View Post

WHAT!!! After all of that you are thinking about covering up or moving the fireplace and going a projector route?????????????? Maybe my gentle nudging on mounting height finally persuaded you????

Hmmmmmmmmm..............................

Regards,

RTROSE

J/K of course, couldn't resist.

LOL

Yup, I'm so getting into this that I'm talking to the fireplace guy, and moving it to another part of the basement, right behind the seating area, pics below.
Now my klipsch can go behind a screen, and I could get a screen as big as 9' or more diagnoally. You know, what the heck, the fireplace is not mounted, it's just standing there, never was finially finished, so why not move it, look at the rest of the pics and you will see.
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post #38 of 296
4/29/10 at 8:39pm
Thread Starter 
In this pic this is the center of the family room, I was standing in front of the fireplace, one of two possible locations is to the far left cornet at 45 degrees, this area was where the bar was going to go, but that could goto the right hand corner in the pic.
The Blinds to the right are covering up a tripple casement window.
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post #39 of 296
4/29/10 at 8:41pm
Thread Starter 
Bar could go to the right corner where the dart board is:
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post #40 of 296
4/29/10 at 8:51pm
Thread Starter 
Here is the second option on moving it to the left:
There would be 9" on each side of the Fireplace, and stone straight up to the ceiling.

The left over room after the fireplace, is 8' across, think this looks much better, and more workable.




Now All I have in my head right now is a 3rd option, how nice it would be to not have the fireplace there, and have an entire width of the room, and make a simple stage, with all the speakers behind a SMX screen with a JVC RS-1 Projector, LOL! Hahahah made you laugh..... Maybe something more reasonable...

Any one have any tylenol, I've got a migrane headache...... Doe!... I should have never accepted the terms on joining this forum.......
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post #41 of 296
4/29/10 at 9:51pm
Thread Starter 
HERE IS THE FLOOR PLAN!!

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post #42 of 296
4/30/10 at 4:45pm
Thread Starter 
Ok, in this pic the center channel could be hung from the beam in the center, it would be up in the air, but it would work.....

Fireplace guy will be here in 20 minutes, I'm looking to see if it could goto the very left hand corner ( where the boards are standing ) and it would leave 8 feet to the right totally open...

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post #43 of 296
4/30/10 at 5:02pm
HA! I knew you would succumb to peer pressure! I like the plan of having the fireplace on the left and the bar on the right. Now we are really talking sense! Glad you finally woke up and smelled the coffee, roses or whatever! I think in the long run you will be much happier with your choice. Are you serious about putting the fireplace in the back of the room? If so then that would be the ideal place, but off to the side at a 45 degree angle that would be the next best thing.

Good Luck. I'll be here to poke and prod you along!

Regards,

RTROSE
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post #44 of 296
5/6/10 at 7:03am
Thread Starter 
Update,

Work continues, fireplace guy has been a no-show for over 7 days, very upset with this guy, might send a letter to the company over it, I called the guy several times, and he said he was on his way, but never shows, I don't want to make a situation where he could get fired over it, but how ignorant to tell a customer that they are on their way to your home, but never show up, more than 5 times, I think this is totally rude and un-acceptable, but I'm trying to deal with it.

New major issue:
I had a master plumber show up and he told me that my toilet was not origionally installed to code, so now a new bill of 1,000 dollars just came, to re-do the pipe from the toilete to the main, but they would also run new copper lines to the vanity, to the shower, the toilet and all vents required and vented up and out, they would hook up 2 new water spickots on the outside, and fix my upstairs shower fixture as well, so not too bad for how much would be done, but an un-expected bill of $1,000 dollars.

The Beat Goes On.....
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post #45 of 296
5/6/10 at 9:43am
Fireplace guy needs to go!! There is absolutely no excuse or place for lazy people like this when there are plenty of great, reliable contractors ready to get to work. Remember he works for YOU, not the other way around.
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post #46 of 296
5/6/10 at 1:41pm
I agree, kick the fireplace guy to the curb. I would also call the company. They need to be aware of his work ethic. In this economy he could be costing his company thousands, I'm sure they would want to know about is "customer service" I know I would.

Even though a grand is nothing to sneeze at, it does not seem too bad for all the work you are having done. One of my estimates for some plumbing in my basement was almost 800.00 and I was not have near the work done you are.

Regards,

RTROSE
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post #47 of 296
5/13/10 at 9:32am
Thread Starter 
Update:

Plumber replaced the toilet drain, hooked up all the lines, and hooked up all the vents and now everything is all correct and to code.

I have ran three 250 foot spools of 12-2, and one-250 foot roll of 12-3, the entire basement has been re-wired, everything has been seperated, laundry room, 4th bedroom with tamper-proof outlets, the bar area, the familyroom, the fireplace wall, etc. I have not bought a new digital camera yet, so I'll borrow one later tonight.
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post #48 of 296
5/13/10 at 10:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheaterChad View Post

Update:

Plumber replaced the toilet drain, hooked up all the lines, and hooked up all the vents and now everything is all correct and to code.

I have ran three 250 foot spools of 12-2, and one-250 foot roll of 12-3, the entire basement has been re-wired, everything has been seperated, laundry room, 4th bedroom with tamper-proof outlets, the bar area, the familyroom, the fireplace wall, etc. I have not bought a new digital camera yet, so I'll borrow one later tonight.

Wow! 250 feet of 12-3? That seems like a lot to me. The 12-2 is pretty much spot on for a basement. Of course I did not have but two three way switches so my 12-3 requirement was very small. Glad to hear your making progress. Good choice on the tamper proof if you have little ones. Should keep little fingers (and other objects) from making their way into the outlets!

Just remember there is NO PROGRESS without photographic evidence.

Regards,

RTROSE
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post #49 of 296
5/14/10 at 12:24pm
So where are you with the fireplace? Did you end up moving it or are you leaving it as is?
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post #50 of 296
5/14/10 at 5:17pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Tasty View Post

So where are you with the fireplace? Did you end up moving it or are you leaving it as is?

Hey Tasty,

The fireplace guy never made it over to my place in over two weeks, I gave up on him, and with my contractor helper finishing up with the rest of the basement electrical, and misc bathroom repairs, I have waited long enough, and will probably call and let the fireplace store what happened with this one.

I basically had to keep everything going, could not change my mind, it would have been way toooo costly for me to have changed the location, and I even had several friends that came over and are doing the very same thing as I am. I am looking at doing a drop down screen, looking at what sizes are available, and projector options too.

Rose,

I was mistaken, only used a half of a 250 foot roll of 12-3, and there really are not any new pics other than the new toilet drain and all of the venting tied up through the roof vent. I will get some pics up after mid week nextweek, I will be through my plumbing and rough-in electrical inspections, and will be allowed to insulate and sheetrock!! So pics will follow then, thanks.
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post #51 of 296
6/24/10 at 7:01am
Thread Starter 
UPDATE:

I've been away for a few weeks, we had a couple of people close in the family that passed away, been on a vacation, but more progress has been made.

After the new toilet line in the floor was installed, and the remainder of the wiring, and everything else was tied up, and all my framing, plumbing, HVAC, inspections are complete, now it's insulation and starting sheetrock, I guess I better just buy a new digital camera, cause no pics are considered as no proof as work getting done, lol.

I've installed a couple of outlets in the ceiling, and ran a 25ft HDMI cable to later mount a projector and a electric drop down screen in front of the wall unit, looking for some suggestions, room is 12 1/2 feet wide and from the bottom of the top I have 7.5 feet, I could mount a PJ around 15 feet away, sounds like a nice way to go!

Considering a 110" or bigger screen, looking at Panasonic PT-AE4000U Projector and dont know much aobut the screens, looking for now.
Thanks,
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post #52 of 296
6/24/10 at 1:05pm
Concerning dual center channels. Nothing wrong with it, in fact if anything it has advantages. One being dynamic range and output. If your amp can handle a lower impedance, paralleling the front channels and halving the impedance will effectively give you an extra 3db of output from the center.

People who bring up the combing effect honestly don't realize that its in reality a non issue. If your left and right channels play a mono signal with identical amplitude, the output sound will come from directly between the 2 creating a center point image. No coming effects going on there, nor is there going to be any negative affect when a pair of monitors are placed a bit closer together. If anything, properly setup they will just expand the center channel a bit. You can place the pair up top angled downwards, or below the screen, or to the sides of the screen, one left, one right, or one top and bottom. I run dual center channels in both my HT setups and its the way to go. Using a pro Audio Control RTA with full bandwidth pinknoise and some other software has shown the frequency response to be very smooth and the ears confirm no negative side effects. I mean people do know that many commercial theaters uses multiple center channels split of the center channel feed right? LOL. What works there will work in your own HT as well...........
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post #53 of 296
6/24/10 at 1:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheaterChad View Post

UPDATE:

I've been away for a few weeks, we had a couple of people close in the family that passed away, been on a vacation, but more progress has been made.

After the new toilet line in the floor was installed, and the remainder of the wiring, and everything else was tied up, and all my framing, plumbing, HVAC, inspections are complete, now it's insulation and starting sheetrock, I guess I better just buy a new digital camera, cause no pics are considered as no proof as work getting done, lol.

I've installed a couple of outlets in the ceiling, and ran a 25ft HDMI cable to later mount a projector and a electric drop down screen in front of the wall unit, looking for some suggestions, room is 12 1/2 feet wide and from the bottom of the top I have 7.5 feet, I could mount a PJ around 15 feet away, sounds like a nice way to go!

Considering a 110" or bigger screen, looking at Panasonic PT-AE4000U Projector and dont know much aobut the screens, looking for now.
Thanks,

The AE4000 is a great choice for that room. WHat was your budget and size for the screen? With the 4000 are you going to Lense memory and do dual screens or just a single screen?
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post #54 of 296
6/25/10 at 7:07am
Thread Starter 
ntrain,

Thank you very much for replying!!

I have an open budget for a screen, money is an object, but not too concerned if I have to spend over 2000 to 2800 for a screen, just looking for the best accoustically transparent, largest possible screen for the panasonic PT-AE4000U with the best possible image..... Single screen if possible. There will be a 60" LCD behind the screen for regular tv viewing, how much for a sled and an anamorphic lense for this PJ or do I really need one?
I would'nt mind considering a JVC RS-1, RS-2 used.

I really appreciate the info on the dual center speaker info, if you look HERE you can see them as they are hook-ed up right now in my main level living-room, and I called Yamaha direct to ask about hooking them up this way, they gave me instructions, and all I can say, watching Avatar Blu Ray, it sounded totally awesome, so many people wanted to turn me away from the idea of dual centers when I started this thread, dual centers are only used when I watch a movie anyways, but they are a full range speaker, no reason why they won't work.

I'm gonna get a camera tonight and post a few pics hopefully this evening.
What software is everyone using to show rendering examples of their theaters?? I could use this so I have more of a visiual example of what's going on. Thanks ntrain!
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post #55 of 296
6/28/10 at 8:52pm
Thread Starter 
I finally bought a new digital camera, lol......

Here's a shot of the wall unit, large enough for a 60" Flat panel:



Side view for possible electric projector screen:

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post #56 of 296
6/28/10 at 9:16pm
Thread Starter 
Middle Atlantic rack in closet below stairs:



I'm installing outlets in ceiling for later expansion for Projector and an electric projector screen, and just finishing up what's been planned for now, starting to insulate and sheet rock, having a new Andersen 400 series gliding patio door installed later this week, and some other ends to tie up for main level needed to do, still finishing running cable and internet, and hdmi, speaker wires to the AV rack, thanks.
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post #57 of 296
6/30/10 at 7:03pm
Now all that is needed is a picture of that 60" flat panel to fill in that space! Looking good and coming along.

Congrats on the new camera and the Andersen door. We had a Andersen door installed last year and absolutely love it. It was a major upgrade from the stock slider installed about 7 years ago.

Regards,

RTROSE
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post #58 of 296
6/30/10 at 10:53pm
fireplaces and electronics do not mix, the the plasma does need room to breath due to the heat it will exhaust, a fireplace can have over 2000f of radiant heat for a wood burner, not sure about bas burners
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post #59 of 296
7/1/10 at 7:07am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mystic_sniper28 View Post

fireplaces and electronics do not mix, the the plasma does need room to breath due to the heat it will exhaust, a fireplace can have over 2000f of radiant heat for a wood burner, not sure about bas burners

This is only a mis-conception, I was at the fireplace store last month, 6 people came in and requested their flat panels to be mounted above their fireplaces, the guy I know at Fireside earth & home said to me that mounting a flat panel above the fireplace is their #1 request and their pri-marywork right now, even several displays in their showroom.

In previous posts in this thread, it state's this is a Zero clearance fireplace, there is absolutely no heat above or around the TV, and there is a " dura'rock " box that encloses the fireplace, it's best to start at the beginning of the thread to see what's the plan, there will be 52 or 60" LED LCD going there, which has 1/2 the heat, not those bread baking plasma's.
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post #60 of 296
7/1/10 at 7:09am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTROSE View Post

Now all that is needed is a picture of that 60" flat panel to fill in that space! Looking good and coming along.

Congrats on the new camera and the Andersen door. We had a Andersen door installed last year and absolutely love it. It was a major upgrade from the stock slider installed about 7 years ago.

Regards,

RTROSE

Thanks RT,

Insullating right now, then sheet rocking next week, then it will start to come together fast! Will post some more pics later, thanks.
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