Possible Full-Resolution 3D On Cable/DBS?

Meaning, not half-rez--or better yet Blu-ray quality. Someone viewing the recent Masters golf match (live, streaming) liked the 3D effect but mentioned the half-resolution, side-by-side format delivery cut resolution so much the location of golf holes on greens was lost at times.

Seems like trading HD's wow factor for 3D's. Wonder if plans are afoot to provide full-resolution live or recorded 3D HD to homes? Perhaps MPEG-4-like codecs, theoretically double MPEG-2's capacity (not yet, AIUI), are suitable. Believe DBS leads with MPEG-4 STBs in homes, with the newer, more-efficient codec just entering some new cable STBs. Recall there are also standards to boost the bit rate capacity of OTA HDTV, too, while keeping signals backward compatible for older standard HD tuners.

My cable service, NYC's TWC, has been promoting a broadband Internet service for 50 Mbps downloads that might handle Blu-ray-quality 3D HD material. Not sure if ESPN's DBS 3D channels, to existing MPEG-4-related STBs, this year will be 720p...ah...'full rez' rather than half. -- John

Mentioned this initially because getting MPEG-4 or equivalent STBs in more homes for cable/DBS seems a requirement for full-rez 3D delivery. Full-rez at 24p (movies) would differ from full-rez 720p or 1080i/p. MPEG-4-related codec bit rates might vary greatly, as with current Blu-rays.

An earlier short paper from codec-chip firm Ambarella claimed 1080p60 (double, or ~3 Gbps sampling) could be delivered by MPEG-4 with only a 20% increase in bit rate capacity compared to 1080i with MPEG-2; (see last Ambarella paragraph). The main reason: frames within 1080/60p are more identical--without 1080i's interlaced-field time lags--so greater compression is feasible. Seems that would also apply with 3D since left-right eye views shouldn't differ that much encoding-wise. -- John

Haven't really read that many detailed resolution descriptions of recent cable/DBS-delivered side-by-side 3D. Get the impression from what I've read, though, that observers are really struck by and report the 3D effects but overlook reporting how much HD detail is retained, say the Masters or recent hockey game. And most everything I've read here, and other sites, says side-by-side cable/DBS 3D is half-resolution after decoding/display. So was puzzled by your Engadget article just linked here that seems to say otherwise (?).


Thanks. Good to hear. That Ambarella writeup about 1080p60 delivery appeared about two years back, I guess. It mentioned TVs take 1080/60p but didn't discuss 3D. Posted the link only to indicate that if 1080p60's staggering bit rates can be compressed with MPEG-4 to only 20% more than current 1080i requires with MPEG-2, some manipulation ought to handle 3D for even current MPEG-4-equipped STBs--not necessarily full 1080p60. So it's still unclear why, if it's the case, 3D is being or will be delivered this year for MPEG-4 STBs (DBS) at side-by-side half-resolution. -- John

If detail isn't present in each 960 eye frame--as opposed to a concurrent 'full-format ' HD broadcast--after 3D encoding, seems some details would be missing. I'm aware how color interpolation partially restores 4:2:0 color encoding on alternating lines and horizontal pixels (from 4:4:4 original production), but didn't realize, if that's the case, they're also further compressing luma details for 3D side-by-side encoding, then partially restoring them, too, through interpolation. Thanks. (Vaguely recall discussing something like this a few months back; takes a while for tech to sink in).-- John

Appreciate the added details, bdraw. Couldn't imagine adequate PQ from ESPN's 'half-resolution' 3D 720p upcoming DBS channels, but perhaps MPEG-4 delivery and downconversion from 1080/60p cameras will add lots of PQ. Watched a lot of HD golf since 2000, mostly 1080i, but only in recent years, such as this year's joint 720p/1080i ESPN/CBS Masters coverage , has 720p's PQ looked so good. Part of that, as speculated in that link, may be the 1080i downconversion to 720p, boosting sharpness despite the format's restricted spatial resolution.

And compared to 1080i for sports, 720p derived from 1080/60p-camera capture looks fairly good, probably in part because 1080i's effective resolution (resolvable detail) is so crippled from limited bit rates, rate shaping, multicasting stations, etc. Maybe some 3D (or 2D) 1080i source will rig some reduced-cost ~4k Red One or newer digital-cinema cameras for downconversion to 1080i one of these days to also help boost that format's effective resolution. Anyway, if 3D via NYC's TWC, or perhaps FIOS here, starts expanding with good material, acquiring a 3D computer might be next. -- John