Suggest External Mic for Panasonic HDC-TM700 - Page 3

The hum is a function of dirty power and device self noise, of the mic and of the camcorder. If that mic is powered by an AA, you might try one of those e2 type lithium AAs. If it's powered by the mic ports plugin power you might try a battery box between the two. I have a battery box and when recording to my laptops mic port it makes a heck of a difference. Without it, those inconsistency things you mentioned are evident. Which makes noise removal less efficient. With it, it's much better, but no $10 electret mic is going to match my higher end gear.

With an external recorder you can both record on that device and use it's line out / headphone out to feed the camcorders audio. Worst case scenario you can always isolate your mic from the device and half of the environment with a baffle. An sE reflexion filter or other means. Dixie cup lined with foam or other baffle material and the mic in the center. Plastic flower pot or whatever size makes sense. The redneck equivalent to cupping your hands behind your ears. You don't have to have directional mics to make a directional recording.

Or you could just get one of these:
http://www.telinga.com/products2.htm

Keep in mind that its impossible to properly interface a phantom powered mic to a 3.5mm plug. While it's a 3-terminal device, it's a balanced (differential) connection, not stereo (you probably knew this). The XLR to 3.5mm adapters are designed for dynamic mics... the typical stage mic uses XLR, but it's a dynamic mic, not a condenser, so no need for phantom power. The adapter runs the positive and GND terminals to the tip and ring of the 3.5mm jack, and ignores the inverting terminal of the XLR. For phantom power, you have a DC voltage across the positive and inverting terminals. This voltage is "phantom", because the XLR signalling cancels any common signals between the positive and inverting terminals (it's also common to AC-couple the mic signal, which blocks any DC offset).

Plug-in power is not intended to power a 48V condenser mic. Rather, it's a lower voltage, usually +5V or so, which is typical of the battery used in electret mics. An electret mic is a condenser, but it uses a permanent electrostatic charge on the condenser, rather than the +48V used in higher-end mics. The power is for the amplifier... all such mics have very, very low signal levels from the condenser, and need to amplify the signal before sending it over the mic cable.


Lots of relatively cheaper mics are dynamic mics, like those stage mics I mentioned. A condenser mic works by changing the capacitance ("condenser" is an old-timey name for "capacitor") across a diaphragm. The advantage is that the diaphragm can be very light, so it's very responsive. The downside is the need to deal with very low-level signals in the mic.

A dynamic mic is rather like a speaker in reverse. A speaker works by moving a large diaphragm attached to a magnet, with an electromagnet working against that fixed magnet... your audio signal powers the electromagnet. In a dynamic mic, the mic's diaphragm moves a coil against an electromagnet, creating its own electricity... so no need for power. But this makes the system less responsive. The other advantage is that it's more rugged than a condenser mic, which is why these are popular as stage mics. Any mic that just plugs in to the "mic-in" jack of your PC, no battery needed, is going to be a dynamic mic (PCs don't generally offer "plug-in" power).

Hi guys,

I hope you don't consider this too much off topic, but you all seem to be quite knowledgeable in the sound aspect of camcorders. In another thread Jogiba posted this clip that demonstrates the kind of distortion I experienced with clips I made at a recent race event.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post18767922

What I am trying to get a better understanding of is what(if any), settings I could make to improve the dynamic range of the recording to (hopefully) avoid saturating the audio circuit, which is what I am guessing is happening here.

I am looking to find out if AGC helps or hurts in this situation. Am I better off to turn AGC off and reduce the audio settings to -15 or more? Is that the best scenario?

From what I've seen in this thread, it seems an external mic wouldn't help unless it is connected to a separate recorder with better S/N than the panny. Does that sound about right?

Thanks for any help.

It's funny, I decided on getting the MKE 400 for my HS700 without doing a whole lot of study on an external microphone. I just went with the reviews of the MKE. It's worked flawlessly for the week that I've had it. But since yesterday, for no reason, there's a terrible hiss when I have it switched on and record. I haven't done anything to it at all. I did a search and found this thread. I've been following the official thread for the camera for a while.

Here's a sad story. Last night I had shot some important video at a party at a restaurant that I was looking forward to. There was live music and everything. I was looking forward to seeing the video when I got home and plugged in the HS700. Started doing playback and realized in horror that there was no audio at all for any of the video. I shot 30 min worth. I don't know how it happened, but the mic must have gotten switched off. I keep it in that middle position and never turn it off or mess with it. I didn't even think of the microphone at first, and was just dumbfounded. I checked it when it was plugged in and made the discovery and it was in the middle position! What's the chance that I even switch it off by accident, but then somehow accidentally switch it back in the middle position either when I put it in the bag to come home, or too it out to plug it in. But I've noticed the annoying hiss since today. I have no idea what could cause it. I actually had to remove the mic to shoot today's video. I've always shot since day one with the MKE 400 attached.

Any ideas? I've messed with it and can't find anything wrong.

It could be that the battery died. It could also be the input jack wasn't completely in. Or the gain locked and way too low. Or a number of things. That's the risk of an external microphone. I tend to use an external field recorder untethered to the video device. In part because my video device has no audio input jack. And as an extra redundancy.

Per the AGC thing, it's reactive which makes it ill suited. Not that you can get the type of dynamic range needed in the videos codec. So an external audio device and swapping in post would be more ideal. Although a lot more work.

Noise reduction edits work best if you do them BEFORE doing ANY other edits. You might have to amplify and UNDO to find the spot you want to use as the sample region. But if you need to do noise reduction, you're better off doing it first thing. Not that it'll ever sound completely right, but it should prove less problematic if applied to the most pure (least edited) input.

Bumping to see if there have been any new developments on a best external mic for the TM700!

I'm happy with my Azden wireless MXpro. I use it for river baptism where the speaker is well away from the camera, or for lectures when there was no amplified speaker system. Gets rid of the audience noise. As to not getting the recoding (Paratrooper), can I help you cry? That's what your headphones are for. My problem has been failing to press the REC.

Hey I created an account just to ask where you got that shoe adapter. I have a TM700 and am wanted to change to side shoe to face upwards. Can I get the name or model number for it? Its exactly what im looking for. thanks!

-Matthew

Just saw this! Thanks for sharing!

My recommendation for any video recording solution - camcorder or DSRL - would be using an external recording device, like Zoom H1, which gives much better sound quality - and as we all know good sound contributes significantly to video...
Synchronizing the sound with the picture can be done in editing - using the track from camcorder/camera.

Hey, here are a few questions about the Zoom H1.(which i intend to use strictly for Audio for Video -short films etc. )

1. Do you need to attach an external Mic to the Zoom H1 or does its built in mic work well?
2. What is the distance upto which it can record decent/acceptable quality audio for Video?
3. Can it work as a direct input mic to the camcoders ? i.e. record directly into the camcoder ...

Hi


I've just got the H1 and can confirm it is fantastic at doing what it does.

To answer your questions:

1) It has built in microphones that work great, no reason I can see to start plugging in other microphones. You will need a windscreen for it though for outdoor use, this applies to any mic really.

2) You can get quite far away, as long as the volume load enough to be heard by a person at that distance it will get recorded, trouble is it will be quieter and might be drowned out by other sounds nearer the camera.

3) It does have a line out and should work plugged into the camcorder. You'd only want to do this perhaps to avoid having to bring both together in an editor. Mounted on the camcorder it will pick up handling noise.

The beauty of the H1 is it is like a wireless microphone, you can place it near to where it's needed. Unlike I wireless microphone you haven't got to worry about interference or plugging a receiver into the camcorder.

Regards

Phil

Thanks a lot phil , Cant wait to get my hands on the Zoom H1 (should arrive here by next sunday).

I didnt want to end up syncing Audio and video in Edit , thats why I was asking about it being able to record directly into the camcoder. ( In a shoot with many scenes and shot breakdowns, The Clapping guy ends up killing me.

I wont be worrying about it picking up the camera handling noise, as Ill be mostly shooting scripted stuff in more or less controlled environment, so no major camera settings are gonna change during a Shot , except may be the ocassional Zoom in or Pan .

Can you tell me how Directional the Zoom H1 is? I mean does it pick up everything in and around a particular radius? or can it be directed / pointed to pick up from a certain angle?(and how) .

Here is an after discussion extenal mic test for tm700 made by a friend Le Chat Errant in a frech forum I participate in (forum repaire )
Music is Carmina Burana first minutes (repeated 4 times) from standard HiFi istallation
1- Internal Ia automatic mode
2- Internal Manual mode stereo
3- With external mic Audio - Technica Pro 24
4- With Sony ECM-CG50

On 2.3.4 AGC is on

http://vimeo.com/20413985

My wife and I both thought the internal mic sounded very good and the last one was very good as well. Neither of us are audiophiles but for us it's #1 and #4.

---------------------------------

Thanks for choosing

Be carefull to push up sound for 3 Audio-Technica in order to compare correctly to 1 (Internal automatic) since sound is a bit low while filming.

My choice was equality between 3 and 1 with a small edge to 3

For those who visit this page please choose the 2 best

I asked author (le chat errant: the wild cat ) to push test between the best 2 (will be done next week)

Hi forum,

Would the DPA clipsmikrofon 4071 (+48v) work with the Panasonic TM700?

Kind regards Bo

------------------
New test

http://www.vimeo.com/20834670

I still like the internal mic better.
But if you had to reach over distance then the internal is useless anyway. This is a great test, because there isn't enough difference to make a non-audiophile pay more for a mic unless they need distance, which has other issues.

Her is another series of testing imported to sound soft :
Same sound track
1-Original cd sound
2-Internal 5.1
3-Internal Stereo
4-External Audio-Tecnica Pro24


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0j5m...mbedded#at=169

I also use the ZOOM H1 with my 60D.

This mike has fantastic stereo sound quality @ only 100 bucks !

I always use the Rode SM3 - On-Camera Shockmount
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...hockmount.html

to minimise handling noise and isolate camera sounds from the mike.

I feed the line out to the 60D's mike input - no noise !! and as it is a 96khz/24bit recorder in it's own right, has huuuge dynamic range - fireworks really sound like fireworks, and also hear the fireworks after sound rumbling along in the distance.

Beware that this mike is fairly nearfield.

Can also be used just like a wireless mike - sync it up in post.

I also use the RODE deadkat outdoors, and wrap the entire mike and shock mount. Wind noise must always be kept of the rear of any mike and its' mount.

I personally recommend the Rode videomic. It's only $149.99 on amazon. It comes with everything you need. It has a shoe mount, also has a built in shock mount. I set my camcorder on low audio input and the mic picks up sound great, i love hearing me walking in my dress shoes i could lisin to that all day. Also it's not to big it's perfect size.

The RODE Videomic is a high-quality mic but it is mono. Not great for picking up the ambience of a scene. One has to start by determining what the main use will be. Maybe mono is ok for interviewing someone, but it is really limiting.

Yeah but if you have software like sony vegas you can convert it to stereo and all is well. And are you sure it's mono? because when i copy the video files to my laptop and check the properties it says 2ch, stereo.

I looked at the Rode Videomic Pro at B&H Photo, can't post a link because my PC is on it's last legs, literally.
I did read some reviews and these mics are Mono but they use 2 channel sound so you get the sound on the left and right it's just the same sound on both channels. For distance I don't see how you could pick up true stereo, but I'm not an expert like markr041 is.

The Pro is more money but is a newer version and seems to get really good reviews.

well if I'm correct mono is 1 channel audio. But the Rode picks up the mono and puts it into 2 channels. Both channels with the same audio. Interesting, thanks Steve.

Yes, you're correct, happy to help.

Hi there, which wireless microphone is best to use with this camera. I will use this camera and microphone indoor, to create interviews and small review footages. Which mic system is best for 2-3 people to speak together?

http://www.amazon.com/Azden-Selectab...978796&sr=8-25

http://www.amazon.com/DELUXE-CARDIOI...978796&sr=8-22

Or can i use H4N with readhead, i just wonder how to syncronize them, does Panasonic has plug in for it?

As I wrote on the TM 700 owenr's thread, I use the Zoom H2 4 channel digital recorder.
The 4 channel sound has much better accuracy and the separation of channels is amazing.
The 5.1 camera sound is less accurate and the separation of channels is less than Zoom's.
But I want to make some more test. Than I will decide for the sound recorded and saved within the mts file. For the moment I keep both sounds.