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The "Official" Pioneer VSX-1020-K Owner's Thread - Page 8

post #211 of 4530
Monster - who else, they have this cable..some 140$.....But wondering its application really. Still not convinced about the real intent of Etherchannel in HDMI
post #212 of 4530
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

four letters...

h... d... c... p...


Indeed .. it rears it's ugly head once again
post #213 of 4530
Quote:
Originally Posted by didadi View Post

Monster - who else, they have this cable..some 140$.....But wondering its application really. Still not convinced about the real intent of Etherchannel in HDMI

Obviously, the 1.4 HDMI is a continued step towards universal connectivity. I would think that this cable would breakout the ethernet channel, allowing back and forth communication between devices on the network. Since I'm a wire guy, as opposed to a wireless guy, I think the concept is interesting.
post #214 of 4530
Quote:
Originally Posted by didadi View Post

- Or perhaps a simple Ethernet-to-HDMI adapter that can plug into your existing router...Yes, indeed new stuff.

Figure 1. Example of System Architecture at the bottom of page 1 of this Silicon Image product brief suggests to me that (at least) one device must be connected to [a router] using a conventional RJ45-RJ45 cable.
post #215 of 4530
at the risk of going too far off topic...

like i noted earlier, i can see it being somewhat useful for the "car" crowd... something like a 3g/4g network transceiver with a hdmi dongle... plugged into a carputer...
post #216 of 4530
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

Figure 1. Example of System Architecture at the bottom of page 1 of this Silicon Image product brief suggests to me that (at least) one device must be connected to [a router] using a conventional RJ45-RJ45 cable.

That makes sense. I'll wager that if the tech catches on, we'll see routers / switches with an HDMI out or two.

On topic then .. since the Pioneer has ethernet connectivity .. I'm guessing it passes the data thru any of the HDMI outs as well ..??
post #217 of 4530
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

Figure 1. Example of System Architecture at the bottom of page 1 of this Silicon Image product brief suggests to me that (at least) one device must be connected to [a router] using a conventional RJ45-RJ45 cable.

that's the way i always understood it, but i freely admit i could be wrong...

if i had to bet, even if the ethernet channel was enabled, there's no way you are getting anything copy protected through it... i'd be shocked if the source/sink hdcp handshake is magically going to go away...
post #218 of 4530
carputer ... did you just make that up .. ??
post #219 of 4530
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

That makes sense. I'll wager that if the tech catches on, we'll see routers / switches with an HDMI out or two.

hoo boy... just WAIT until the hdcp errors start popping up with that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

On topic then .. since the Pioneer has ethernet connectivity .. I'm guessing it passes the data thru any of the HDMI outs as well ..??

i really really really doubt it... see above posts about "optional part of the spec, and not anticipated that anyone will implement it soon"...

there aren't even any cables yet...
post #220 of 4530
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

carputer ... did you just make that up .. ??

lol... nope, wish i had...

google "carputer"... if you've never heard of one before, there's a whole new world out there to check out...
post #221 of 4530
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post


there aren't even any cables yet...

I'm pretty sure there are 1.4 cables readily available ..
post #222 of 4530
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

lol... nope, wish i had...

google "carputer"... if you've never heard of one before, there's a whole new world out there to check out...

Well, at 65, sometimes the whole new world takes a while to filter in. Took a look at your juke posts, hows that going for you ..?? I've got an old Sebring I've had for years, insides look about like your's did before you gutted it ..
post #223 of 4530
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

I'm pretty sure there are 1.4 cables readily available ..

doubt it... as there's no such thing as a "hdmi 1.4" cable... someone may be marketing one as such, but there's not even such a beast defined in the spec...

take a quick look at this thread...

couple of the foremost experts in terms of what needs to happen to implement ethernet over hdmi have commented in that thread...
post #224 of 4530
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

Well, at 65, sometimes the whole new world takes a while to filter in. Took a look at your juke posts, hows that going for you ..?? I've got an old Sebring I've had for years, insides look about like your's did before you gutted it ..

lol... even at 46, it takes awhile to filter in...

workin' on it... it's primed and ready for swmbo to paint it... i've got everything but the lights ready to go... thanks for asking!
post #225 of 4530
http://www.meritline.com/10feet-hdmi...--p-44004.aspx



HDMI 1.4

Released May 28, 2009.

* HDMI 1.4 increases the maximum resolution to 4K × 2K (3840×2160p at 24Hz/25Hz/30Hz and 4096×2160p at 24Hz, which is a resolution used with digital theaters); an HDMI Ethernet Channel, which allows for a 100 Mb/s Ethernet connection between the two HDMI connected devices; and introduces an Audio Return Channel, 3D Over HDMI (HDMI 1.3 devices will only support this for 1080i), a new Micro HDMI Connector, expanded support for color spaces, and an Automotive Connection System.
* HDMI 1.4 supports several stereoscopic 3D formats including field alternative (interlaced), frame packing (a full resolution top-bottom format), line alternative full, side-by-side half, side-by-side full, 2D + depth, and 2D + depth + graphics + graphics depth (WOWvx), with additional top/bottom formats added in version 1.4a .
* HDMI 1.4 requires that 3D displays support the frame packing 3D format at either 720p50 and 1080p24 or 720p60 and 1080p24. High Speed HDMI 1.3 cables can support all HDMI 1.4 features except for the HDMI Ethernet Channel.
* HDMI 1.4a was released on March 4, 2010 and adds two additional mandatory 3D formats for broadcast content which was deferred with HDMI 1.4 in order to see the direction of the 3D broadcast market.
* HDMI 1.4a has defined mandatory 3D formats for broadcast, game, and movie content.
* HDMI 1.4a requires that 3D displays support the frame packing 3D format at either 720p50 and 1080p24 or 720p60 and 1080p24, side-by-side horizontal at either 1080i50 or 1080i60, and top-and-bottom at either 720p50 and 1080p24 or 720p60 and 1080p24.
post #226 of 4530
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

doubt it... as there's no such thing as a "hdmi 1.4" cable... someone may be marketing one as such, but there's not even such a beast defined in the spec...

So those that are peddling 1.4 all over the Web are bogus ..??
post #227 of 4530
Has anyone tried the Internet Radio stations? My IP address is 169.254.X.X when I use the Auto IP function. The Note on page 104 states I would not be able to listen to the Internet radio stations if the IP address is set for Auto IP. Can anyone help me out with assigning a new IP address or how I go about finding the information needed to update the IP address.
post #228 of 4530
Ethernet over HDMI is simple. The idea is your receiver has an Ethernet jack, and 4 HDMI connections (in/out it doesn't matter).

Once your receiver is plugged in to the network, it can share that connection to all other HDMI 1.4-eth compatible devices that are connected. Its like having a built in 10/100 switch in your receiver. Which would be nice since I have a 5 port Gbe switch behind my TV for my (future) receiver, PS3, 360, Wii and TiVo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vaix77 View Post

Has anyone tried the Internet Radio stations? My IP address is 169.254.X.X when I use the Auto IP function.

169.254.x.x is an autoconfiguration address - that means it cant get an IP from your router. Check your router config.
post #229 of 4530
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

So those that are peddling 1.4 all over the Web are bogus ..??

that would be correct...
post #230 of 4530
Quote:
Originally Posted by doormat View Post

Ethernet over HDMI is simple. The idea is your receiver has an Ethernet jack, and 4 HDMI connections (in/out it doesn't matter).

Once your receiver is plugged in to the network, it can share that connection to all other HDMI 1.4-eth compatible devices that are connected. Its like having a built in 10/100 switch in your receiver. Which would be nice since I have a 5 port Gbe switch behind my TV for my (future) receiver, PS3, 360, Wii and TiVo.

if you have a 5 port Gbe switch right there, why on this little green earth would you then cripple the network conectivity by forcing it through a 10/100 switch (that likely won't get anywhere near max throughput anyway)?

and once more, just in case anyone is missing the key point here... it's not implemented in anything presently, and is unlikely to be implemented anytime soon... it's a solution in search of a problem... if you have network access at point of use anyway (which you need regardless), there is ZERO reason to introduce hdmi into the equation...
post #231 of 4530
Thank you doormat for the response. Can you point me where I might go looking in the router settings? Currently all the other Components are able to connect except this one
post #232 of 4530
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

doubt it... as there's no such thing as a "hdmi 1.4" cable... someone may be marketing one as such, but there's not even such a beast defined in the spec...

take a quick look at this thread...

couple of the foremost experts in terms of what needs to happen to implement ethernet over hdmi have commented in that thread...

Quote:
Originally Posted by nded View Post

FYI - There is no such thing as an HDMI 1.4 cable.

I don't anticipate seeing this Ethernet over HDMI coming together soon, as it is an optional feature that HDMI adopters are not required to support. Here's a picture of how they envision the functionality on the www.hdmi.org website:



Your monitor effectively becomes your ethernet switch/router for the attached devices. No word on whether or not they want the manufacturer to include a DHCP server, or how NAT and port forwarding are being handled. It is not very appealing, as all it adds is another level of complexity and increased costs to your HDMI devices. Do you really think a company is going to produce something like a Blu-ray player, Vudu, Netfix, Tivo, Roku, or any othery type of home entertainment device with support for online functionality and only support Ethernet over HDMI? No way are they going to drop the direct connect RJ45 port from those internet appliances. That redundant Ethernet/Internet access hardware is going to cost the consumer $$$ with no increased functionality.

Actually, I'm wondering what happens to a [hypothetical and future] BD player, AVR, and TV each connected to a router at 1Gbit ethernet when they are also interconnected with HDMI 1.4 + (100Mbit) ethernet transmitters/receivers/cables. Will the ethernet switch in the AVR be smart enough to manage changes in access to the router over two different HDMI connections plus a (direct) connection over RJ45? 'on-the-fly'? without a tame rocket scientist available?
post #233 of 4530
lol... tame rocket scientist... i like that...

that would be a bit of a boondoggle configured the way you describe... i can't see it working in anything but a managed switch environment, which i'm going to wager is a bit technically out of the reach of most...

and if someone was technically inclined enough to make it work, they wouldn't do it anyway...
post #234 of 4530
all good info fellas.. :-) Looks like i opened a can of worms...aka good qn i mean..
post #235 of 4530
I think its a good idea. Ethernet over HDMI. Less connections to everything. I see the receiver being the main componet with the switch built in and not the TV. It has a ethernet connection to it from your network. Everything that plugs into the HDMI ports gets an internet connection. Right now I have to run a seperate ethernet connections to my DirecTV, Xbox, Bluray player. Switches are cheap. DHCP would work the same way it does now.
post #236 of 4530
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

lol... tame rocket scientist... i like that...

that would be a bit of a boondoggle configured the way you describe... i can't see it working in anything but a managed switch environment, which i'm going to wager is a bit technically out of the reach of most...

and if someone was technically inclined enough to make it work, they wouldn't do it anyway...

Actually (it seems to me) that a rational strategy is for any AV device with direct access to a DHCP server over RJ45 to acquire an IP address, become 'connected', and offer to connect any 'unconnected' AV device over a usable HDMI_1.4+ethernet connection. Any 'unconnected' AV device then accepts only one HDMI_1.4+ethernet connection (from among all the 'connected' AV devices it sees) and itself becomes a 'connected' AV device. This propagates across the HDMI_1.4+ethernet connection network as an "ethernet connection" tree until there are a no more HDMI_1.4+ethernet connections between a 'connected' AV device at one end of a cable plus an 'unconnected' AV device at the other end of the cable.

If the controllers can recover from network topology changes sufficiently quickly, it looks to me like that might be sufficient...?!
post #237 of 4530
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin57 View Post

I think its a good idea. Ethernet over HDMI. Less connections to everything. I see the receiver being the main componet with the switch built in and not the TV. It has a ethernet connection to it from your network. Everything that plugs into the HDMI ports gets an internet connection. Right now I have to run a seperate ethernet connections to my DirecTV, Xbox, Bluray player. Switches are cheap. DHCP would work the same way it does now.

The question then becomes how you accomplish streaming UTube downloads or (future) IPTV when you just want to have the TV 'on' and the AVR 'off' . . . unless the AVR supports 'another' new type of 'standby mode' that allows for 'ethernet switch through'...?!
post #238 of 4530
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelly_NV View Post

3) If you have 5.1, you shouldn't be using your TV speakers for anything. The PS3 will get audio off HDMI, are you getting 5.1 audio from the Xbox 360? If not, what audio connection are you using with the Xbox 360?

I get 5.1 with my 360, it sounds great lol I just like having that extra speaker from the tv playing. I'm so used to the dialog from my old receiver being so damn quite, it helped to have the added sound from the tv. But maybe with the new pioneer I wont have too ha
post #239 of 4530
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

The question then becomes how you accomplish streaming UTube downloads or (future) IPTV when you just want to have the TV 'on' and the AVR 'off' . . . unless the AVR supports 'another' new type of 'standby mode' that allows for 'ethernet pass through'...?!

I think for it to work it would have to function just like a stand alone switch does now. It shouldn't matter if your receiver is off or not. It would have to provide an always on connection to all ports. It shouldn't use any more power than a regular switch. It could be a 10/100/1000 switch. I originaly wired 2 ethernet jacks a number of years ago behind my TV thinking I would never need more. Now I use 4. My current Sharp 52 LCD doesn't need a connection. It does have a USB port for firmware upgrades which I recently used. Building the switch in the receiver seems like a easy logical step.
post #240 of 4530
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin57 View Post

I think for it to work it would have to function just like a stand alone switch does now. It shouldn't matter if your receiver is off or not. It would have to provide an always on connection to all ports. It shouldn't use any more power than a regular switch. It could be a 10/100/1000 switch. I originally wired 2 ethernet jacks a number of years ago behind my TV thinking I would never need more. Now I use 4. My current Sharp 52 LCD doesn't need a connection. It does have a USB port for firmware upgrades which I recently used. Building the switch in the receiver seems like a easy logical step.

Example architecture from a Silicon Image product brief...



The CEMs are going to have to plan for AV configurations wherein 'any' device might potentially be HDMI_1.4+ethernet enabled, with or without an RJ45 connection, or alternatively HDMI_1.3/1.4 NOT ethernet enabled plus with/without an RJ45 connection. (I foresee lots of "How do I configure...?" postings on AVSForum!)
LL
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