The "Official" Pioneer VSX-1020-K Owner's Thread - Page 128

Yeah there is a good news and a bad news. The bad news is that it may be a solder joint that is broken, and whenever it makes contact, the signal goes through, and what it's not, you get nothing. E.g. does it work again if you shake the unit

The good news is that soldering the component would be an easy repair job I guess. Or, it's something else (e.g. failed HDCP handshake or whatever) software-related and now the software/firmware gremlin is not around and everything is fine.

I had a tv that didn't like the cold. If the temperature went below 60, it wouldn't start unless you warmed it up with a blow dryer. It's still working over at my sister's warmer apartment...

I think I should re-run MCACC with my 7.1 setup. My goal is to better calibrate the subwoofer and explore the advanced MCACC mode.

Right now I keep all my speakers to LARGE (even if they're bookshelves), with subwoofer set to PLUS, because setting the speakers to SMALL produces too much bass to my taste. In fact, it's not really too much bass, but the sub output kind of hurt the ears. I'm not sure if this is caused by excessive volume, standing waves, or distorsion. Since the 1020 calbirated the sub output at +6dB, maybe I should raise the sub volume dial before calibrating and maybe I'll get a better dynamic range. Should the speaker size be set before the calibration? Won't MCACC revert it to LARGE by default anyway? What is the best way to deal with that kind of problem?

I was leaving EQ TYPE to SYMMETRY because it's the default; but reading about the option in the manual, I wonder if I should change that. If I understand correctly, SYMMETRY tries to produce the same speaker "color" for speakers on the left and right in a pair (e.g. front right and left, surround right and left), but does not try to equalize fronts with surrounds for example. Not sure what it does for the center. The ALL CH ADJ setting tries to equalize all speakers so they produce the same sound. Not sure what is the reference in this case; the manual indicates a "flat" setting, so this depends on the microphone, room, etc. There is also the FRONT ALIGN setting which does not equalize fronts but tries to match every other speakers to them. This might be really interesting. Has anyone played with that? Any opinion?

I was wondering that myself a few weeks ago. A search of this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post15639976) for ALL CH ADJ showed a discussion about a year ago, the conclusion of which was that you should probably use ALL CH ADJ rather than SYMMETRY. Front speakers should be on "small," especially since they're bookshelves. Adjust your crossover and sub volume accordingly.
Just use a different MCACC preset for each run, then you can toggle between them afterwards and see what you think.
You might actually consider looking through the manual, starting at page 37.
If you want to get more serious, Google "Room EQ Wizard."

I'll try it out, but it seems I have some reading to do anyway: this thread will probably answer lots of questions.


I know they should be set to SMALL; but won't MCACC automatically revert them to LARGE? Or does it do that only for the non-advanced automatic MCACC? Or should I set THX = yes to do that before calibration (seems weird and this applies SMALL to all speakers; this is what I want but I'm not sure if it does anything else). Right now the problem is that if I set the speakers to SMALL, I get to much / ear-hurting bass.


I did read the manual (PDF is actually open in another window as I type this) however I'm still not sure how to proceed for best results. On page 38 we see that with Full Auto MCACC, you can set the Speaker System, EQ Type, MCACC slot and wheter speakers are THX before starting. The Speaker Size seems to be set by MCACC. If I set them after MCACC, I get too much bass.

OK as I type this I'm reading page 86 and there's a detail I just noticed. When running non-full Auto MCACC, it seem there's a "Keep SP System" option which lets you keep the speaker size as SMALL during MCACC. I think this is what I was after.

As for the Room EQ Wizard, this seems interesting as a measurement tool; not sure how easy it would be to act on those measurement using Manual MCACC. I guess I'd have to try it.

Thanks for the tips!

I have my VSX-1020 set up for Speaker B, which plays 5.1 channels in my living room, and a 2-channel downmix in my kitchen, which has a single stereo speaker installed in the ceiling. The run to the kitchen is rather long, about 75 feet.

I'm having a couple of issues.

One, the volume on speaker b just isn't very loud. Is that because it's at the end of such a long cable? Would some kind of in-line amp be the solution?

Two, I'm getting an occasional echo effect in the kitchen. It's particularly noticeable when playing music from my AppleTV. Could I have wired the speaker out of phase? Could the long run have anything to do with it?

I'm really basically clueless, so any suggestions on how to troubleshoot would be most welcome.

Thanks!

I have AT&T U-verse, and I've noticed that when I have the volume set in a good spot for HD channels that it is way too quiet for SD channels. I usually have to switch between -10dB for the former and +5dB for the latter. I have my U-verse box set to surround instead of stereo. I'm not sure if this is the "fault" of U-verse or my receiver, but either way I'd like to find a way to normalize these a bit. Can anyone advise?

If I can find a decent price for the fronts I want, I'll have a spare pair and I'd do the same thing as you. Tired of listening to a crappy Logitech iPod craddle while working in the kitchen when I have numerous real speakers waiting in the living room.


It may be because of the cable, but not necessarily. Is that heavy gauge or small gauge? Use at least 16-gauge and you should be ok, even if 75 ft is rather long. My surround backs use 50 ft of 16-gauge wire and the 1020 sill applies a channel volume reduction on them.

An other reason may be the impendance of your in-ceiling speaker. The 1020 is optimized for 8 ohms but your speaker may be lower than that. It may also be less sensitive (i.e. produces a lower sound pressure for a given voltage) than your home theater speakers.

I really don't know much about in-line amping. Your setup is most often seen with slightly higher-end receivers having pre-amplified outputs. Those are RCA outs corresponding to all speaker outs, outputing pre-amplified content. It's then easy to connect the pre-outs to standard amplifiers down the road. There are very cheap stereo amps that work very well but not sure if they support amplifying in-line.



An echo wouldn't be caused by an out-of-phase speaker (this would cause cancellation of certain frequencies -- if you have two or more speakers). I really don't see how a long run of wire would produce echo either. Even if the signal did reflect back and forth the line of wire because of impedance mismatch, I guarantee you that the echo delay would be much to small to be perceived.

If it only happens from one source (your AppleTV), could it be that an Advanced Surround Mode is applied to it? Say "Concert Hall" for example? Could it be simply that you hear both set of speakers (including the one in your living room) at the same time?

While your volume values are really high -- not sure what kind of speakers you're driving with the 1020 or in what room you're in, but I never got close to 0 dB -- it's true that there may be a huge difference in volume between different sources and between HD channels with digital sound and SD channels with analog sound. This is an annoyance, and there are numerous features that can help with that in the 1020. I'd try ALC mode if I were you.

For example I listen to net radio at volumes between -50 dB and -40 dB; games and movies around -40 dB on the PS3; mono sound on DVD (old television shows from the 80s) have to be raised all the way to around -25 dB; I listen to HD TV at around -30 dB, and around -25 dB for SD TV.

My PC is connected to my VSX 1020 via an HDMI cable (~33 feet), and then connected to my LCD HDTV via HDMI. Upon initial setup, I didn't have any problems viewing internet content on the HDTV. About 2-3 months after setup, I noticed green pixels occasionally show up on the HDTV, usually after I'd been viewing the program for 30 minutes or more. The green pixels normally show up when I extend the desktop, so the internet content fills up the entire HDTV screen. If I return to "duplicate desktop" and make the content smaller on the HDTV, the green pixels usually go away. Lastly, if I turn off the Pioneer and turn it back on, the pixels go away for at least a while. I've noticed the pixels occurring more frequently lately, and when they show up, they gradually grow to cover most of the screen.

I've heard from reading other internet postings with similar problems to mine but not exactly, that it could be a bad HDMI cable. So I purchased a new one which is on its way.

My question is, could it be something else?

Thanks for your time,
S

http://www.greenandtheblue.com/hometheater_pc/

Sorry about that, I really don't know what that could be. And honestly I'd be surprised if it was the cables. One thing to try though: what happens in the following cases?

1. If you connect your PC directly to your TV
2. If you connect your PC directly on a computer display with HDMI
3. If you connect your PC directly on a computer display with DVI or VGA
4. If you connect your PC on the 1020 and the 1020 to a computer display

The goal with all of this is to see what component is faulty. Could be the TV, cables, receiver, or your video card. If you see green pixels in any of 1-3, then the 1020 is not the problem. If you see them in 4 only, then it's probably the problem.

Also, are you using upscaling for that? In VIDEO options, check what value you're using for the RES parameter. I'd try PURE if I were you -- this will bypass upscaling. The bad news is, if this step resolves your issue, then it's probably the upscaling chip that's going away in your 1020.

I haven't bough surround speakers quite yet, so it's just two old towers for now. That may explain my funny volume numbers.

I tried ALC, but it didn't seem to help much. I was on Auto Surround before that. Could it have something to do with the fact that my U-verse box is converting a stereo source to surround, then my receiver is converting a surround signal back to be played out of only two speakers?

(BTW, if you have any recommendations of a good mid-price 7.1 set of speakers, I'm all ears.)


If you had said white dots, I would've thought it was due to your excessively long HDMI cable based on this CNET article. And if you didn't mention that restarting the receiver seemed to fix it, I would've blamed your video card. On top of doing what neutro suggested, you may be able to further admonish your video card by running something like ATITool or FurMark overnight just on your main monitor to see if you're left with any artifacts; I had a card that showed green pixels randomly, and when running ATITool overnight I was left with hundreds of yellow artifacts, possibly from bad RAM on the card.

Yes, the 1020 puts our a relatively weak signal compared to other receivers.

I had a Yamaha that went into an a/b splitter, to my projector or tv. Once I got the Pioneer, the projector run would not work. Eventually I went back to a dual hdmi Yamaha because it was a pain to switch the tv and projector around (done via component to tv and hdmi to projector).

So a new cable may help, but a shorter run could do it too.

Well there's a lot of factors that could explain that, but if they work without distorsion even at positive dB's, then that's ok I guess.


Apart from ALC, there are other functions of the 1020 that may help, but frankly, it's really the fault of you cable or tv provider (and every provider is at fault here so yours is not exceptionaly bad).

In the AUDIO parameters, MIDNIGHT mode can help, and if the input is digital, DRC can help also. But if you found that ALC didn't help much, I don't think this will solve your problem.

I'm not familiar with the U-verse box but it's likely not converting stereo sources to surround. It's likely the other way around. When set to surround, it simply sends the Dolby Digital stream to the receiver. If it's set to stereo, it gets the stereo stream (still coming in digital form) and either sends it digitally through your HDMI cable or sent to analog (RCA) outputs. Now some SD channels have Dolby ProLogic-encoded surround. This is not digital; it's just that there are a center and surround back channels encoded into the analog stereo stream. The effect is much less convincing than digital 5.1 sound. You can tell what the source sends to the 1020 by looking at the boxes on the upper left part of the 1020's display. When playing 5.1 sources, the L, C, R, SL, SR and LFE boxes are lit up. When the LFE channel is active, it shows something like this (( LFE )). When you see only the L and R channels lit up and the box close to LFE labeled XC lit up, that means the 1020 is decoding a ProLogic stream encoded in the stereo channels.

Another sadly common occurance is stations encoding stereo sound into 5.1 digital by sending all 5.1 channels but specifying utter silence for the center, surround and LFE channels. This is the worse because at least with standard stereo, the 1020 have surround modes that can use all your speakers. But when the sound is 5.1 with silence on 3.1 channels, suddenly the stations sounds really flat compared to say, commercials in real DolbyDigital.


This is of course off topic for this thread, but just a few points.

First, as sky is the limit for speaker prices, "mid-price" don't mean much, as your mid-price may be rock bottom or complete overkill for other people. Second, if you buy reasonably popular brands, just don't go and pay MSRP (assuming you're in the US). Most speakers periodically come in huge sales, so choose your brand and models (or choose a few) and just wait till the price drops. You'll save hundreds of dollars this way. Online stores such as Vann's and others often have 50% rebates.

That being said, I have a 7.1 setup mostly from Energy. Entry-level "Connoisseur" line; CB-20 fronts, CB-10 surrounds, CC-10 center. I like it a lot and the brand is somewhat respected. (Also have dropped two old speakers behind my couch for the surround backs). I've got the ESW-C8 sub but it's small an not that powerful; produces lots of grumbles but it's not clear, defined bass. If you'd like floorstanding fronts, Vann's currently have the Energy CF-70 (biggest in the entry-level line) at half price and free shipping. But as I said, you can get similar sales on about every popular products.

Thanks very much for the help neutro, kentyman, and gregoryperkins. I've tested the pure vs. upscaling...and both result in green pixels. I've tried different HDMI ports on the HDTV and same result. In fact, one port gave me green pixels right away. Usually it takes some viewing time.

So my next step is test a new hdmi cable going straight into the tv. Additionally, will DVI from PC to receiver to TV result is lesser sound/picture than HDMI if I have to go to that? I don't have many port types on my old monitor, so not sure what I can test there. I have about 20 days left on my Pioneer warranty. Do you think their tech support can help? Lastly, I don't get the pixels on my PC monitor when they are showing on my HDTV, so doesn't that rule out my video card?

Thanks for any help and I'll be testing the new cable shortly.

Those are interesting results. If the PURE setting doesn't change anything, maybe it has nothing to do with the upscaling chip on the 1020, which would be a good sign. If one port of the TV results in more green pixels, or a faster appearance of the buggers, maybe it's a signal strenght or cable issue after all.


Yes, this will be critical. If you still get green pixels when the receiver and the original cable is out of the loop, then that rules out the receiver and cable; and since you say the TV gets green pixels only with the PC, that would rule out the TV too. If the problem is with your PC's vidcard, unless it's a laptop, it's probably the least worrysome part to replace.


Well the 1020 doesn't have DVI inputs; and I'm pretty sure that if DVI can carry audio (can it?) it would be limited to standard stereo, so if you go PC to TV via DVI only, you'd have to use a digital out (e.g. toslink) from your PC to the receiver. It can be done (depending on the availability of a digital out on your motherboard) but it's one more wire...

Of course a single HDMI cable is more elegant but if the problem is with the video card and you don't want to replace it, you can send video over DVI to the TV (if your TV has a DVI input) and sound over toslink to the receiver.

EDIT: to answer your question though, DVI is perfectly able to carry 1080p video signals so nothing to lose there in terms of video quality. Tosklink can carry 5.1 Dolby Digital alright. Not sure about DTS-HD Master Audio or Dolby TrueHD (lossless audio format up to 7.1 channels), or e.g. 7.1 PCM. I think those formats, found on BluRay disks, require HDMI. So it depends on the source; unless you play BluRays on your PC you shouldn't lose anything.


Well if you can find a place with a monitor with HDMI input (most recent monitors have one), you could borrow the monitor or take your PC there. If your monitor doesn't have HDMI input the tests will be limited. The goal of that test was simply to get your TV out of the loop.


Maybe they can help; and if you put your problem in their ticketing system before the end of the warranty, if the problem is with the receiver, then it would be a proof that you noticed them before the limit. So it's a good idea, but the direct PC-to-TV test with a new HDMI cable will probably tell you if the 1020 is the problem. Green pixels will mean that the problem is probably with the PC. No green pixels, probably with the receiver. Anyway the Pioneer tech support will ask you to do that for sure, so if it's done before you contact them, it will go faster.

The fact that you don't get green pixels on your PC monitor doesn't rule out your video card unless you use the same HDMI output (which doesn't seem to be the case). Typically there would be a chip on the videocard whose job is to convert digital signals normally sent to the DVI port to the HDMI port and perform HDCP handshakes (anti-copy protocol). If this chip is overheating / dying / of bad quality, your videocard could be perfectly fine using the DVI output but give out bad pixels using the HDMI output.

Good luck!

Hey guys. I'm a soon-to-be new member of the Pioneer 1020k club, as I'm set to pick one up from a guy locally. The 1020k was on my short list when I was deciding on an AVR earlier this year but ended up going with a Denon 2112ci instead. I saw this one pop up on C-List locally for $100 and didn't feel like I could really pass that deal up. That's a pretty decent price, right?

I've been told it's fully functional and includes the MCACC mic, iPod cable and remote. I'll do some searching in this thread and see if there's a reset' button or something to bring it back to factory specs once I bring it home. Mainly, I just wanted to see if that's as good of a price as I think it is and wanted to see if there is anything that I should be on the look-out for when I go to pick it up in a couple of hours.

Well I don't know much about used prices in the US for the 1020, but let's just say that it's the price I planned to sell my Pio 520 lol. Dammit. I never saw the 1020 below 350 new and it's less than 2 years old, so I'd say it's a great buy at this price. Hell, can you even buy a 6-way HDMI switch for 100$?


Don't worry about that -- see the manual on page 75. You basically have to hold down ENTER on the front pannel while the unit is in standby and power it on; you'll be given a choice to reset the unit to factory defaults.

Hahaha...I don't think that is the standard going rate for a used 1020...I think it's a great deal and that's why I'm jumping on it without a real need for a second receiver at this time. Thanks for the tip on the ENTER button. I'm going to leave in a bit to pick it up, so I hope it's as-advertised.

Oh yeah, you say it's 2 years old. I thought it was the 2010 year model, which has been replaced by the 1021?

What's your "first" receiver then?


Exactly. 2010 is less than 2 yo I think the 1020 was out in winter or spring 2010, so next spring it will be 2yo. We're closing on 2012 buddy

The 1021 adds a lot of interesting features but also removes one HDMI input, so given the choice (and more money for the 1021) I did go with the 1020. I really don't mind the AirPlay on the 1021 but I use the standard net radio a lot on the 1020. I'd have loved the network standby on the 1021 though but didn't knew about that when I bought the receiver. Anyway, I don't think you'll find a 1021 for 100 bucks

AhhI was reading your post too quickly and missed the less than before the 2 years old. Whoops!

But hey, I'm not alone, pal you missed my mentioning that I got a Denon 2112ci in my first post. That's my first receiver. I've never owned a Pioneer receiver and I'm looking forward to comparing it to the Denon, which I really like. I picked it up earlier today and really like the looks of it and that it's somewhat compact. It's just a bit smaller than the 2112 and much smaller than my old Onkyo TX-DS676 which is an absolute beast! I use the Pandora and Net radio on the 2112 a ton, so the Net radio on this will be nice.

At this point, I think the only thing I won't like about the receiver is that it doesn't allow for video/audio pass-through, so I'll have to have the receiver on anytime I'd like to watch TV (if I run the cable box through the 1020). I think I remember reading that somewhere before.

Hee hee. Well I don't know much about Denons -- or receivers in general, frankly, the 520 and 1020 were my first HT receivers. But a quick look at the specs for the 2112ci tells me that you don't need the 1020

EDIT: Ha, saw on the Energy owners thread why you need a second receiver


The comparison will be interesting though. Your Denon has more features (e.g. AirPlay, Pandora, FLAC playback, etc.) and has as many HDMI inputs, so not regarding the price, it's a win right there. The Audissey calibration software is also an industry standard whereas the Pio's MCACC is a competing product only found on Pioneer. I thought it did a good job but did not compare with Audissey, so I'm curious about your comments on that topic.


Well net radio works crudely on the 1020 -- I'm actually old school and like entering the URL and that's it -- so no Pandora or other similar service on the 1020.


Yes, no standby pass-through, which is another of the 1021's feaure. That being said, if you have a HT receiver, it's typically because you have a few speakers hooked up to it. Why would someone want to listen to the TV speakers in those conditions is a mystery to me. But hey, a feature is a feature...

Hey guys I recently purchased a DVDO Duo video processor for my home theater system. I use to have everything hooked up through my VSK-1020 receiver first. Now all my video/HDMI goes to the DUO and the Duo only passes audio out to the receiver.

What this gives me is a constant Flashing HDCP error on the face of my unit because I have audio going to my HDMI 1 input and no video. Has there been a fix for this yet? The last post I saw concerning the HDCP error is going back to 2010..

Anybody got a solution? Firmware etc?

I don't know about the Duo, but does it have a non-HDMI digital audio output (optical or coax)? You could use that and
not worry about the abomination that is HDCP. Or maybe you're doing exactly that but using the HDMI 1 input function... According to the manual on p.41, some input functions can be associated with optical or coax inputs without video -- that would be CD, CD-R/TAPE and SIRIUS. Those can also be renamed. If you're using optical or coax, try those input functions instead of the HDMI 1 input function, which seems to require video on the HDMI-1 input port.

Im using hdmi 1 but im using an hdmi cable between the duo and my receiver. Wouldnt i loose HD audio by using an optical or coax cable?

Why put the duo first? I think you can set the 1020 to just pass the video.

"lack of video" is unlikely to be the problem as hdmi always has video. it may be "blank", but by definition, audio is embedded in a video stream with tmds processing...

and the hdcp error would happen at handshake time, at which point the avr has no knowledge of what is actually in the stream...

so the hdcp error is being caused by something else...

Yes I think you would for DTS-HD Master Audio and Dolby Digital TrueHD; those need HDMI 1.3 I think.


That's not a bad idea. You could send the HDMI out from the Pioneer to the Duo and ajust the video parameters so that no upscaling is performed (or set RES to PURE; not sure which one would be appropriate).

If you have components/composite sources that you want the Duo to handle then by definition they won't have HD audio so you could use optical/coax to the 1020 for those.

I use to have the 1020 first in the chain.

The reasoning for putting the Duo first is, it is a video processor and thats what it does so everybody I have talked to says dont let your receiver do anything with video. Having all my sources plugged into the Duo lets me calibrate color, hue, tint, contrast, grey scale for each individual component, and that is the kicker. Having everything plugged into the receiver then one cable out to an input on the DUO only gives me 1 input to calibrate period.

The input I am having the HDCP error from is my Home theater PC. I didn't have a problem with it until I swapped the order of the components. It really isn't an issue except the damn error flashing every second alternating between what audio type it is outputting. If I cant do anything with it, I think the separate input calibration capability is going to trump the annoying flashing.

It makes sense. However we're speaking about digital video here, so it does not automagically deteriorates because it passes through electronics or wire. (Well, it seems, except very obvious problems such as the green pixels mentioned above).

It seems that if the Video Parameter V. CONV for an input is set to OFF, there is no processing whatsoever performed on that input, meaning that the data stream at the input is simply repeated at the output. I can't be 100% sure about that but this is what the manual implies. Any other video parameter can't be set if V. CONV is OFF, and those video parameters are all the extent of the 1020's video processing options.

So if the data stream is strictly repeated, absolutely no modification is performed on the image by the receiver (absolutely zero noise is added since the signal is digital -- it would take a tremendous amount of parasitic interference to switch bits in the stream). So considering this, placing the Duo after the 1020 is not a bad option at all. Just make sure that analog video connections (if any / if possible) are directly input to the Duo.


You've got a point there though.