The "Official" Pioneer VSX-1020-K Owner's Thread - Page 144

Definition: Audio Return Channel (ARC) is a very practical feature that has been introduced in HDMI ver1.4. What this function allows, if both a home theater receiver and a TV have HDMI ver1.4 and offer this feature, is that you can transfer audio from the TV back to a home theater receiver and listen to your TV's audio through your home theater audio system instead of the TV's speakers without having to connect a second cable between the TV and home theater system.

For example, if you receive your TV signals over-the-air via antenna, the audio from those signals goes directly to your TV. Ordinarily to get the audio from those signals to your Home Theater receiver, you would have to connect an extra cable (either analog stereo, digital optical, or digital coaxial) from the TV to the home theater receiver for this purpose.

However, with Audio Return Channel, you can simply take advantage of the HDMI cable you already have connected between the TV and the home theater receiver to transfer audio in both directions.



Do we have this???

ARC is audio return channel -- but the 1020 doesn't have this feature. I believe the 1021 and onward have it.

The VSX-1020-K does not support Audio Return Channel nor Standby Pass-Through.

Thanks guess I'll have to dig out an old digital optical cable - I may have given them away!

I've finally wired my outdoor speakers (as well as separate volume control), so I decided to test it out. I have my HTPC configured for 7.1 output, so I decided to use Windows 7s test tones in the Sound Control Panel. Even with only Speakers B on, I heard 7.0 of the tones from my outdoor speakers. Lefts went left, rights went right, center went to both, and the actual subwoofer tone didn't make a noise. I had my receiver on "Standard" listening mode, and the front display reported "PCM".

Thanks, I'll go with 100 Hz.

That's indeed the way to go with the 1020.

That's interesting. Maybe what the manual meant (sometimes it's a bit hard to understand) is that you won't have multichannel sound if only Speaker B is selected. It's obvious of course...

I had a project which aborted but may get resurrected one day, to set up in-ceiling speakers in the kitchen / dining area which is adjacent to the living room. I wonder if I should use Speaker B or Zone 2 for this. Can you have the exact same content playing using Zone 2? Can you have independent volume control using Speaker B? The goal would be to have the exact same content playing at the same time.

My set up is similar - it would be nice to have variable sound to A or B but I don't think it's possible if both are running at the same time.
Not sure if you could manipulate it some way in the set up?? e.g. - the B set always lower or something?

One way to do it (if I ever go ahead) would be to link the Speaker B terminal to an in-wall volume dial and then to the in-ceiling speakers. If I ever want to run more than two speakers (e.g. if I want to put it 3-4 speakers in the ceiling to cover the whole space, or use two "stereo" speakers for example), then a good idea is to use an in-wall impedance converter, and those typically include a volume dial.

But Zone 2 would allow different volumes settable through a smartphone, which would be great. I'm just not sure if you actually can play the same content on Zone 1 and Zone 2. I know content from HDMI and digital inputs can't be played through Zone 2 though, which may pose a problem.

It's also possible that it fails to play at all in a different listening mode, but I'm not sure without trying them all out.

Firstly, a Zone 2 setup only allows 5.1 in your main room instead of 7.1. This was a deal-breaker for me.

As for which content is supported, page 30 of the manual says "Different sources can be playing in two zones at the same time or, depending on your needs, the same source can also be used.". The supported inputs are "DVD, TV/SAT, DVR/BDR, VIDEO, INTERNET RADIO, iPod/USB, CD, CDR/TAPE, TUNER, ADAPTER PORT, SIRIUS (Outputs analog audio and composite video.)". But in order to share the same source, they'd both have to be non-digital it seems.

I don't think you can do separate volume with Speaker B. Page 73 says "MASTER VOLUME +/–: Use to set the listening volume in the sub zone. You can only use this button when Speaker System is set to ZONE 2." Because of this, I wired my outdoors through one of these. It has a nice benefit of being able to adjust the volume while being outside, rather than going back and forth. You could use an indoor version to do something similar.

I actually didn't quite follow what you meant here, schex.

Exactly!

Is that true for Android smartphones? I think the Pioneer apps only support newer receivers. Though there are a couple third-party apps that claim support: iControlAVA Free, VSX Lite

Not playing from digital inputs seems like a deal-breaker, so you'll want to think that through before going with Zone 2.

I was going to go smart-ass on you and quote the manual to disprove this, but to my surprise, you're right I thought Zone 2 was basically the same as Speaker B in terms of amps usage. Well in my case I reverted to a 5.1 setup because of a furniture re-arrangement mandated by my significant other. So not a deal-breaker for me.

Ok then that's a plus, playing the same stuff in both Zones. I'm not sure listening to different content would be doable as the two rooms are adjacent but if it worked it could be a nice-to-have (TV in the living room, internet radio in the kitchen for example). Having the USB/iPod and internet radio work with Zone 2 is interesting, but down the road, I see myself using more and more of my PS3, WDTV, and eventually a cheap Android box to stream content, all of which are using HDMI and can't be played through Zone 2. So Speaker B it would be in my case.

I think you just answered his question. And I guess there are volume controls with remotes too if needed, although I'm really fed up with remotes right now An in-wall dial makes sense and you can still change volume, though it will affect level in both rooms. The in-wall dial will simply change the balance between the two rooms so it would be used less often.

*sigh* I really get the impression that Pioneer abandoned their early adopters here. We're indeed stuck with iControl AV on iOS if we want the official stuff. But apart from changing sources and volume, that app is basically crap (really... who wants to change bass by tilting a phone??? and why no control of internet radio setup!). If I remember iControlAVA on Android works well but is graphically ugly. The good part is that the protocol for network comm is trivial to reverse-engineer. I managed to grab a PDF of the comms protocol for older Elite receivers and all commands work except Power ON (as the 1020 doesn't feature Network Standby). So controlling the volume on the 1020 with an Android phone would be as simple as making a trivial app that connects with Telnet to the 1020 and sends a single command. What I actually wanted to do was to make a web app hosted on my destkop and available to all devices in my home to control the receiver. But I'm waaay too lazy for that.

Anyway, the lack of Network Standby will probably cause me to upgrade before I gather the courage to make my own app just to adjust volume.

Yeah, presumably this is a limitation in the processing components, not the power output.

Another thing to keep in mind is that you can always switch between Speaker B and Zone 2 modes. All of my speaker outputs are patched into a wall plate. All I would need to do is unplug where Speaker B L/R Out plugs into Outdoor L/R In and instead patch in Rear L/R Out. Hopefully after that all I have to do is switch from Speaker B setup to Zone 2 setup in the menus. Hopefully this won't mess with all the rest of my MCACC settings?

Out of curiosity, do you "miss" 7.1, or can you not really hear much of a difference?

Yeah, I'm not sure you'd want two different sources anyway if they're adjacent. But the HDMI limitation was the real thing that decided it for me. Well, and the 7.1 thing mentioned before.

Wait, I'm confused. My in-wall (outdoor) dial is installed just between the receiver and the two B Speakers, so it only changes the volume of the other "room". I'm not aware some something that changes the balance between both rooms.

I guess because of this, I didn't really need that outdoor volume control. Then again, there's something nice about not needing my phone, or that anyone can easily adjust it without needing a device. I guess I just have an additional way to adjust volume. Also, that affects master volume, which might not be what I want.

Let me know if you do this, as I might be interested in helping. I'm a Software Engineer by trade, so we should have plenty of expertise; free time is the hard thing to come by.

Is the discussion here about LFE filtering a reason to opt for a higher crossover frequency?

Well this is not an option for me as the next time I pull the receiver out of its whole, it will be in order to upgrade it Wall plates must be nice It's a bit weird how there's one set of terminals for either surround backs, Zone 2 or bi-amping, and another set for either Speaker B, Front heights or Front wides. I guess it's because many people want to switch between surround backs or front wides for example with all 9 speakers connected.

I don't see how it would upset the MCACC settings as Speaker B and Zone 2 are not really concerned with those.

Not really but that is because I had a crappy 7.1 setup and now I have a good 5.1 setup. Before, my couch was back to a bay-window. At first I had a 5.1 setup with the surrounds very close to the extremities of the couch, at 90 degree angles. This is suboptimal for various reasons. I had a pair of big, older bookshelves laying around so I decided to try using them as surround backs dropped behind the couch, firing up. This is also quite sub-optimal but they gave a nice diffuse field, albeit quite absorbed by the couch. The timbre was far from uniform and where 7.1 content was the most beneficial -- games, IMHO, in which sound sources would travel all around the auditory field -- the effect was a bit jarring.

Now the furniture is re-arranged and behind the couch is a hallway with a wardrobe, and a bench for our daughter to store her clothes and sit while getting dressed to go outside. Absolutely no room for surround backs, unless I decide to put them in the ceiling. However, I have lots of space for the surrounds in 5.1 and I'm able to place them about 3 ft from the couch at 120 deg and a bit higher than the listeners' heads. Ideal location, and I must admit that I like it much more. So in short, I think a 5.1 setup with ideally placed speakers is better than a half-assed 7.1 setup with mismatched speakers.

Wait sorry... what I meant was simply that in my case, using Speaker B, I *could* use the in-wall dial to adjust the balance between the two rooms, and still use the master volume to adjust the overall volume. And by adjusting balance, it's not really balance, just the relative volume between the two rooms. So yes you still may want the outdoor volume control, and I totally agree that having an old-school way of adjusting the volume in the -- let's call it Speaker B zone -- is totally worth it.

You're absolutely right about free time. I once had *so much* free time but *so little* money to spend on HT gear but now with a growing family, I just watch my piles of shame grow (you know, piles of unwatched movies and unplayed games), and it takes me ages to fix simple things. I can't really justify any time in that project, at least, not using an AVR that can't be turned on remotely. I bought the 1020 without knowing about Network Standby in the first place, and I realize this is really something I could have used.

But PM me if you're interested by the comms specs. I tested the protocol (using telnet) and it's really, really simple. I could fire commands to say, set the volume at -20 dB directly (can't even do that with the remote). So if I had any skills programming for mobile it would be straightforward to make yet another control app for the 1020. By the way, the VSX app you linked for Android is quite nice, more pleasing to the eye than iControlAVA in my opinion. I bought the complete version and it seems to be functional. I couldn't test Zone 2 / Speaker B settings of course.

Another project of mine would be to improve on the net radio using a home server. I *love* the net radio on the 1020 since you can operate it quite easily without the TV on, just using the display (or a control app). But the 20 station limit is a bit restricting in this day and age, and of course, I'd love to be able to send music to the receiver from my mobile devices without having to buy the bluetooth adapter, nor plugging them in, nor turning the TV on. My plan was to set up a streaming server on my home computer, to which one station on the 1020 could be pointed to, and have a web interface to control the streaming server's playlist using my own music collection. It turns out that no software can do exactly that (some come close) and I abandoned the idea.

In the end the problem may be solved more efficiently by upgrading to a receiver that supports AirPlay and/or the Android equivalent. Set-top boxes (AppleTV, WDTV or the like) all requires the TV to be on, and sometimes, I just want to listen to music without the plasma glow

Interesting discussion but I can't really believe Pioneer would be so dumb as to *sacrifice* LFE content (by simply dropping LFE content above the crossover frequency). So either the crossover applies to both redirected bass *and* LFE, meaning that the upper frequency part of the LFE channel is redirected to the mains, or *all* content on the LFE channel is sent to the sub regardless of the crossover setting. In Audyssey-equipped AVRs (Denon, Onkyo, etc.) you can specify a different crossover for all channels including the LFE. As Pioneer recommends a 80 Hz crossover for THX gear, I can't believe they're just not sending the 80-120 Hz anywhere

Ah, I misunderstood. This makes sense.

I'll have to check it out.

I've considered the aforementioned Bluetooth adapter, but am concerned at how well it works over distances and in between (exterior) walls. Any clue? This might be a cheaper alternative to just upgrading the receiver itself.

Interesting. I use a small HTPC (just a small computer from Zotac with HDMI out running Windows 7 and XBMC), and since everything is switched through the receiver I don't technically need my TV on to do anything. I've yet to set things up too far since I just got my outdoor speakers, but I anticipate using an XBMC Android app to control what's being played.

Your logic is really hard to argue with here.

Someone earlier in this thread -- a few pages back I guess, too lazy to check, sorry -- bought it and mentioned that the range is indeed limited... It's more or less limited to the room the receiver's in. Considering the price ($100), I'd rather find alternatives and put that in a pot toward purchasing an AVR with wake-on-LAN / network standby capabilites. I'm in no hurry but the *next* upgrade will be the last for a very long time. I swear.

Well if you have an app that actually mirrors or tells you what's currently playing, etc. then I agree, you're all set. For various reasons, an HTPC is out of the question (I just spent lots of money to fix my home server in the basement; also there's zero place left in either my home theater nor on the outlets!). However we're soon to be flooded with cheap Android boxes and some of them will surely run XBMC natively. I'll replace the WDTV with the first $100 Android box with a native XMBC build I think. An added benefit of a generic Android box is that apps can be installed. For example, if your receiver can't connect to your streaming service of choice (e.g. my GF loves slacker radio), you can just install the app and tadam, problem solved. I wish it was that simple on an AppleTV or my trusty WDTV.

In fact, I don't understand why no AVR maker ships a receiver with Android embedded. Setup could be an app. Then the long, tiring list of network services could be replaced by "if it has an Android app, it works".

I'll stop my rant here if I want to go to sleep anytime soon

I moved this receiver to the bedroom when I got a Yamaha that had better internet functions. The thing that I really wanted to do was to have the Pioneer play music from my collection. I got a couple of squeeze box radios in the mean time and ran the squeezebox server which is now Logitech media server. I didn't realize that it was so open and is in fact open source. My Yamaha is able to play from it.

I just discovered that you can to to the server at port 9000/stream.mp3 and if something is playing, it should stream to something like the 1020. Going to port 9000 with a pc or something like that allows you to control the stream. No squeezebox needed, multi platform.

http://www.mysqueezebox.com/download

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logitech_Media_Server

Thanks for the hint, I didn't know about LMS and it's handy that it can stream in mp3 at a specific URL. Can you remotely control LMS? It's one thing to have the stream set up (other software can do this), but the other half of the equation, for me, would be for example to be able to add tunes to the stream queue using a smartphone for example. If the server software displays a control web page with that kind of functionality, then I'll definitely be very interested.

The Ampache media server for Linux came *that* close to do what I wanted. It basically has a web interface which allows browsing for content and making playlists. However, you have to actually click on a "listen" button which launches a javascript tidbit that starts the stream; there's no URL to tune the 1020 to. I bet with a bit of patience and some scripting, one could hack something using Icecast.

But my use case looks like it's easier solved by simply attaching, say, an Android thumbdrive on the 1020

Yeah, you can control it with a web browser, lms:9000 vs lms:9000/stream.mp3 for listening.

I tried pushing that type of url onto my Yamaha as a custom station, but it did not resolve. I probably need to use the ip address of the receiver.

It's nice since you can play genres using lms, something the Yamaha will not do directly.

Thanks a lot Greg for pointing out LMS / Squeezebox Server to me. For some reason I thought it would work only with genuine squeezeboxes. It does everything I want by decoupling the server software, the player hardware and the controller. The server can stream a local library or any internet station. The stream is a standard mp3 steam with a static URL which can be entered in the 1020's internet station list. The server can be controlled with either a web interface or the Logitech Squeezebox app -- which is much easier to use on a tablet or phone. The server is multi-platform.

The only downsides are that both the web interface and the app are Logitech-quality (i.e. fugly and barely functional), and there is a rather large and surprising delay when changing the content being streamed -- I've not timed it but it's close to 30 sec.

As with the Logitech Harmony remote and software, it's far from ideal but in the end it's the only thing that does the job.

Agreed, painfully slow when switching. It disappears from time to time as far as my Yamaha is concerned, sometimes fixed by rebooting w7. I believe this is a problem at the receiver side since it can be used by the squeeze boxes without rebooting. The funny thing is that I only use the squeeze boxes for internet radio...

Yes, it may be due to caching issues within the receiver. The metadata (e.g. song title) gets displayed faster than the new content gets played.

There's a "browser update" parameter in the settings that is set to 30 sec by default. Not sure what it does, will try reducing that to 5 s.

LMS/ squeezeboxserver can also get control commands through telnet (there's a CLI interface). This is great as anybody could write a new interface if talented enough.

That may squeeze more life into the 1020 for me. Yet I sorely miss the network standby feature even more now

Indeed. The Manual, p.108, states the following troubleshooting tip...

Sorry

Sorry to hear about that. I'd be curious how much it would cost to repair.

Speaking of touching plugs, I was curious if anyone has had luck using the non-banana pins in the non-banana ports of the receiver (like Speaker B). This is how I had my outdoor speakers set up. After 5 hours of work getting them installed with an outdoor volume knob, I tested them to find the receiver shutting itself off every minute. I was dejected, thinking that the wiring in the volume box (which took literally an hour to close because the 12 AWG wire was way too big for it) must've been off. Then I realized that the pin plugs were likely touching each other. After removing them and changing to putting the wire directly into the pots, everything was fine. Are these pins just not for the back of receivers?

Those pins are supposed to be made for "traditional binding posts or spring clips connectors" so I don't see what was the problem...

Note to crocodial: the receiver is probably in a protection mode. If you feel adventurous, there is probably a way to reset the receiver and get it out of protection mode. Do that at your own risk though, but if the condition that caused the fault is not there anymore (e.g. short) maybe you could be ok.

In the same boat. Checked and rechecked all connections, changed the Digital Safety feature, did a full reset and nothing helped. Plenty of room for it to cool. Haven't had it in to see how much it would cost to repair, but will probably just buy a new AVR. Kind of disappointed with this situation. I had 2 Yamahas prior to the Pio and had zero issues for nearly 20 years. Now the Pio is having issues after 3.

Hi Steve--O, curious what is "Digital Safety feature"?

I'm not sure what it does, but I gave it a try. When the AVR is in standby, hold the standby and enter buttons together at same time. Then on the AVR it will say Digital Safety and the option to choose Off, 1 or 2, with Off being the default. I've tried to research what that setting does, but haven't had much luck.


http://www.avsforum.com/t/1152684/digital-safety-on-pioneer-elites-d-safety

Hmm ... that interesting.
Don't know if this will help you or crocodial but try pressing "Zone on/off" and the "Preset down" buttons and hold them for about 5-6 seconds and see if it will power on.

Another added suggestion is to unplug all speakers and maybe all sources and then perform the above reset.
Edited by JChin - 3/12/13 at 10:06pm

Basically the receiver only allowed me to insert "just the tip", so they stuck way out and in no way were help straight in. Because of this, the speaker wire could pull them both to the side so that they touched each other. Maybe I missed some hole that should've allowed me to insert them fully?

I never used those so I can't really comment. But if they weren't fully inserted I guess they weren't securely in place. Considering those kind of connectors are principally for convenience, well, if they aren't convenient, then just use bare wires inside the spring clip connectors...