Headphone Audiophiles - Page 18

Hifiman HE6 is in a different class of headphones that is being talked about in this thread. Truly a great headphone if you can properly amp it. The HE6 is my go to headphone. The one problem with the HE6 is that most headphone amps will not power the HE6 properly.
Audeze LCD-3 is also a great headphone but there is some quality control problems that Audeze has with all of there LCD line of headphones. I had a pair of LCD-3's but sent them back and waiting for a new pair.
The nice thing about the LCD's is that they are not as demanding as the HE6's for power.
With both of these planar headphones imo they are the way go, but now you are into the high end of headphone gear. They both have a great dynamic range, 3D, very clear and neutral and with the proper gear will rival or best most any 2CH or MCH speaker system.
I have had most all of the headphones you guys are talking about including the HD-800 and D7000, but non can do what my HE6's can do with my headphone gear.

Wow, that's a really strong endorsement! Have you seen those new 400s that hifiman has just announced? They are apparently very easy to drive and can be used with an iPod or other similar source. It seems that would be the complete opposite end of the spectrum in terms of amplification needs from your HE-6s. I'm really curious how close the 400s can get you to the HE6s, and I'm sort of targeting that model as my first planar set since the price is right. I'm going to wait for more reviews though while I'm enjoying my Beyerdynamic 880s...when I finally get around to ordering them lol.

Thank you for your comments.

I didn't get my refurbed Sennheiser HD600 headphones today, so hopefully early next week.

If the HD600 headphones also put too much pressure on my head, I'll then call up DAHMART (company I ordered the refurb from) and also Sennheiser and ask if there is any way to reduce the pressure that they put on my head (without breaking them).

Comfort is 1st (after an hour+ of use), with SQ (Sound Quality) being a close 2nd.

Given that that fails, I'll look into other headphones like the AKG K702. FWIW the still heavier (and more expensive) Sennheiser HD800 look suspect on comfort so I'm not going there anytime soon. One step at a time.

You are probably just as well off sticking to your 880's, as long as you like how they sound.
Just because a headphone can be powered by a I-pod doesn't meant that they are powered to there full potential.


Why don't you start to bend the metal strap outward of the headphone band. Start with a little presser at first until you get the feel for it.

Agreed 100% with this guy. I've had the pleasure of listening to the HE-6's before. Simply incredible headphone. I had the pleasure of throwing it on my amp. It played at a "semi-loud" level but not as loud as I'd like. Definitely demanding. I've heard it on a Ray Samuels Dark Star and boy do they sing!

I've played with some other toys before too....Stax 009 comes to mind.

Anyways, as for the other posters if you want a comfy yet fun headphone check out the Denon AH-D7000. Very lightweight on the head and they are the most open sounding closed headphone I've heard.

I've never heard the 7000 but want to. Thunderpants are hard to get but also very open sounding.

I'm still another couple weeks away from pulling the trigger on my headphone rig, so I'm trying to decide if I want to stick to my plan and go with the Beyerdynamic DT880pros or throw a little more dough at the HifiMan 500s since they have come down in price a bit. They're more than twice the cost of the 880s, but everyone seems to love the hifiman stuff.

You must of used musicman's dark star, the only problem is you don't want to blow the drivers of the HE6 as Ray Samuels did at the RMCF with his DS. Anyway I am sure you heard a lot more detail, depth and sound-stage using a amp like the DS.
Yes the Stax SR-009 is a fine headphone but at 5K it should be, and then there is a high end amp to be considered, most of those will come in at about 5K+.

Yes the D7000 is the most open sounding closed headphone I have heard also. The two things I didn't care for was the vertical sondstage only, and the bass was a bit overpowering.

Fang (Hifiman) is coming out with a new amp very soon, HF-6 so you may want to take a look at that also.

I think the Thunderpants are the Fostex T50RP modded by Smeggy.

Very cool, thanks for the info...I'm intrigued by his stuff...he seems to have a massive following on head-fi.org, as well. Have you ever heard the HE-500s?

No, but I have only heard good things about them. Also It seems that headdirect (Hifiman) is offering both the pleather (not real leather) and velour earpads with the HE500's try both but imo the velour earpads are much better, at least for the HE6's.

Yes, exactly - though it's much more than a mod. More like a completely new headphone made from parts of the T50RP.

I visited him a couple months ago and listened to several pairs he had on hand. I liked them very much.

Nice...it also seems that the hifiman cans have nice synergy with the Meier amps, so even though the 500s and the Corda Jazz would put me a little over my $1k budget, it sounds like it might be worth it.

I don't know much about the Meier amps and what they out put as far as watts go, plus were would you have to send the amp for repairs if need?

You may want to take a look at the Schiit Lyr amp that is in your price range. That is a USA built amp and has all the power you would ever need for the 500's. The JJ tubes that it comes with are nice but depending on what type of music you play you may want to try the Siemans early 70's tubes.

Not to drive you crazy but the Oppo BDP 93/95 does a very nice job of down-mixing 5.1/7.1 MCH movie sound tracks for use with your headphones.

Really? How would I connect the headphones to the oppo? I didn't see a headphone jack on it anywhere.

And more info doesn't drive me crazy...I like to soak up as much as people are willing to share!

You would connect the Oppo to your headphone amp via RCA interconnects, the oppo is just a transport for music or movies via disc or streaming and will decode most any audio format.

yup I heard musicman's rig. I also live close to jude (admin over at head-fi) so I've had the luxury of jamming some nice high end toys.

As for the bass on the D7000, that's the reason I own them. Nothing like jamming Armin van Buuren on those cans or using them for late night movie playback. Best headphone for movies because you can really get some nice LFE effects on the headphones.

Ive been doing alot of reading over on HeadFi lately, as 1/2 of my year is spent traveling for work now, portable audio has become more important over the past few years. My current setup is cheap but great sounding, and consists of a Total Bit Head and a set of ATH-M50's. I have to say Ive owned quite a few pairs of "lower end" headphones and the M50's are by far my favorite.

Ive got a set of HiFiMan RE-262's waiting at the house for me, and am trying to get my hands on a set of Thunderpants. Unfortunately I cant justify spending a ton of money on a set of open phones as most of my listening is done in the presence of others (planes, various offices etc.) and my 2 channel setup at home alleviates any need I have to listen to phones at home!

IMO, if you travel a lot and want the best sound, IEM's are the way to go.

That's what I ordered the 262s for! Ive yet to find a pair of iem's I can wear for extended periods of time. I'm not sure if it's due to the fit or listening fatigue; but I'm hoping I'll be able to figure it out with this pair as there of good quality and offer quite a few tip options too!

The tips play a big part in comfort and sound.

Check out a company named "Comply" for excellent comfort and seal.

Given your recent input (above), I finally got around to taking a much closer look at my Sennheiser HD650 headphones, with regard to somehow bending them to lessen up the high pressure that they put on my head.

Turns out it's fairly easy to bend the left/right metal bands that connect the ear pieces.

The trick is to pull each earpiece as far down at it'll go, in order to expose as much of the metal band, so that one can get a better grip on just the metal, in order to bend it without breaking either the plastic earpiece or the plastic top piece.

Excess pressure problem solved; thank you for the prompt.

Just ordered the HD449's. Curious how they'll stack up against my open back HD595

The AKG701/702 certainly have great sound stage and incredible clarity and detail (they do need to be broken in a lot, they had weak sound stage, tough treble and an odd sort of a diving tank over your head sound to them, the first two parts went away after a few days break in, the latter part took longer but also went away; OTOH my Sennheisers didn't really seem to need any break in at all) BUT in the end I have to say that I agree with those who say they are simply to thin sounding to be as realistic as some say. It's not that they ahve super tight and precise and exactly true bass and lower-midrange it's that they simply are too thin (as with much high end audio stuff).

If you attend a classical music concert (and this is the way to judge as non-acoustic music depends upon the speakers they use which are often driven way hard) the thing that you are first struck by is NOT treble that leaps out at you, there is no sense of super noticeable and detailed treble jumping out at you as with so many speakers and headphones but a very rich presence of bass and lower mid-range, a very rounded, rich, full sound combined with a simply incredible clarity of detail. So you have insane levels of clarity AND YET there is absolutely no sense whatsoever of treble jumping out at you either!

I banged around on a piano a bit using an Audito Technica 825 mic (supposedly it is supposed to be very flat in FR, atlhough it's not some crazy high-end mic either, although i think it does list for $500, I got it used) and when I played it back through AKG701 it simply sounded too thin, the rich presence was missing even if it did have nice staging and detail but yeah just something very much missing somewhere in the bass or lower mid-range or something, too thin, NOT realistic.

I know some FR charts show the AKG701 to be super flat, however some say that the ultra-near field on ear response of the ear differs and that you actually need a roll off above 1khz to be realistic, there are all sorts of arguments about that and also the initial re-equalization model that to be applied.

OTOH, the Sennheiser HD600 and HD650 have that sense of superb clarity without any sense of a present treble and they have full richness and none of the artificial thinness of the AKG and so many others.

That said sometimes they do have just a touch too much bass to be entirely realistic either, the HD650 seems to have a reasonably smooth treble but just a bit too much bass incomparison and the HD600 seems to have a suck out around 8kHz so there is a touch of live sparkle missing.

Overall a trace too much bass if often easier on the easier than a treble push and the overall sound of the senns seems to match real live acoustic response better to me than the AKG701-type sound.

The senn may have just a trace too much treble roll off and at least one a bit of a treble suck out at one spot and the hd650 a trace of a bass boost at one point so sadly they don't seem to quite be entirely realistic, but that said they appear to be a closer match to reality than the rest I have tried (various slightly lower end current senn and older model senn, akg 701/702, grado sr60, grado sr80).

Again and again they were more realistic than the AKG701 on basically everything, even if not quite perfect themselves. With the AKG701 and other headphones or speakers like them you are always aware of the feeling of treble being present which simply is NOT realistic. Again, go to LA or NY Phil and listen and there is simply no sense that treble is present even though there is astounding clarity and detail and a rich presence. I think many headphones and speakers try to get that lifelike essence and clarity with various fake treble boots and various artificial bass/mid-range tamings.

The AKG 701 might have a touch better sound stage than the HD600 though.

I wish the HD650 has just a hair less bass and just a trace more treble bite, it's like sooo close and yet not quite 100% there. It and the HD600 do have that amazing thing where there is astounding detail and clarity even with no sense of present treble at all, which is very special, but they might overdo it just a touch too much. very, very, very close though. (on a typical not near zero impedance output though the lack of treble and bass/lower mid can get a bit more bloated, still more realistic than tbe akg701 overall but it's the issues they have are a bit more magnified)

The HD650 seemed to have a bit better sound stage than the HD600 and to have a bit more of a "live" sense to them and perhaps smoother treble, if maybe just a trace too much extra bass.

I should also say that the Senn HD600/HD650 seem quite sensitive to what drives them, a lot moreso than the AKG701, sure the AKG701 won't play loud driven by lots of things but the senn with their extreme impedance vs frequency curves tend to get some bass and lower mid-range mudding over some of the treble when they are played back with headphone outputs with too high impedance (sadly most headphone outputs are not near zero and are high enough to affect the senns to varying degree; i made the comparisons with Benchmark DAC1 PRE USB (has like .11ohm output or something, very low) to eliminate output impedance issues from clouding the game).


looking at the FR for what I have heard and haven't heard the stax 9 and the audeze LCD2 look to have some promise, althoguh I have never heard them and the audeze appear they might do what the HD650 does only even yet a bit moreso which i'm not sure would be ideal, although they might be a touch smoother on treble reponse up to 8khz??), although it's hard to say, since the FR is a tricky thing and the ear can get tricked by certain relative spikes and what you read on the FR at first glance might not be what you expect to hear

even after tons of breaking in they are still thin (if no longer shrill and now with a superb sound-stage and no longer any of the holding a shell next to your ear sort of being inside a fish tank weirdness) so they are semi-amazing but sadly simply a bit too unrealistically thin (record an acoustic instrument and playback through them or go attend a classical music concert and compare to any recording you can find and you will see that they simply are a bit too unrealistically thin)

I found them grainy and a little thin with the HeadRoom MicroAmp I had before, but smooth and not at all thin with the Burson HA-160 amp I'm using now. I had Senn 600's and then 650's before, both of which did work fine with the HeadRoom amp--they had deeper bass, but I found them very muffled-sounding on top.

BTW I have listened almost exclusively to classical music for decades, so I know what it ought to sound like over my home system when it's been well recorded.

The Benchmark DAC1 PRE USB that you have, has a great reputation as a headphone amp! Not to mention it also is considered a great DAC and great stereo pre.

Everything I've read is that the headphone amp you use is often key to getting great results with many hi-end headphones.

Between the 3 headphones, i.e. AKG 702 and Sennheiser 600/650 headphones, which did you like best overall for mid-range sound?

How recently have you heard it live though? Is there you are just basing things on how things sound on your home stereo and have gotten accustomed to that?

Anyway I do think the senns a trace muffled but maybe only a third as muffled as the AKG701 are thin, if even.
Headphones are tricky things though and the shapes of people's ears can affect them. And even if you look at tracings of FR from two different copies of a headphone sometimes things are more different than you would expect copy to copy. So it might be the shape of our respective ears, our particular copies of the headphones, etc. too.

I go to concerts once or twice a month. I sometimes go more often I have a pretty good auditory memory, too. I have been present at concerts that were recorded for CD or broadcast a few times here and once in the Concertgebouw. It wasn't hard to tell when the microphones caught something quite different from the sound in the hall ( e.g. the two Decca recordings of Mozart concerti with Uchida) and the times when the recording was closer to the real thing (the Boulez Mahler 10 and songs recorded here in Cleveland and released on both XD and BluRay).

But I agree that people can have differing opinions on headphones without either of them being wrong.