Digital tuner gone bad?

Check to see if the input within the menu accidentally got switched to another source (i.e. make sure it points to DTV>ATSC rather than NTSC, cable, etc.).
Try unplugging the power for a few minutes (hard reset).
Try a rescan of the DTV input within the menu.

If that all fails and your sure your antenna is good, make sure the TV will tune to alternate sources before buying some other tuner:
Try a VCR or some other device on the RF input (CH 3).
Try a VCR or some other device on the component inputs (RCA red/white/yellow) and make sure the TV is tuned for that auxillary input (line in, 00, etc.).
Try a DVD player on the s-video input and red/white RCA audio (same TV tuning bit).
That's all the outputs CECBs could have.

Of course a CECB won't give you the high def you once had but you could buy a more expensive HDTV tuner. In this case you would want to test the other input ports of your TV with a suitable source device. Component inputs, DVI, HDMI, etc.

On the 1st part, my friend had a similar problem even though it was on antenna. His TV has both ATSC (digital) and NTSC (analog) selections for antenna but it was set to NTSC and therefore wouldn't tune the digital stations.

Can you tell if the snowy stations are analog or digital? There are still some low power analog stations out there.

Chances are that if both the analog and digital tuning doesn't work then the RF input will be useless (the other inputs bypass the TV's tuners). Did you try a VCR or some other device on the RF input? (make sure the device and TV are both set to CH 3 (or both CH 4) and the TV is in analog mode).

You can use a CECB on the same inputs that worked for your Wii although only a few CECB models have s-video outputs. What I'm saying is that you will only get 480i (analog NTSC) on your high-def TV because that's all CECBs output. But the picture quality is also dependent on the output type:

RF connector - so-so
Component connector (RCA yellow) - better
s-video - best

I would check into the price of an HDTV tuner. I've never looked into them myself because I have older TVs. Maybe bundle the money into one combined with a recorder.

A weird thought but I wonder if a small cheap HDTV would have an HDMI or other suitable output? The use it for the tuner and pipe the signal over to the big TV.

If the tuner is bad, your best bet would probably be the Centronics ZAT 502 HD tuner(~$100) found in Ken's thread in the HDTV Technical forum, here.
I don't know of any TVs with HDMI output, some earlier digital TVs had SD composite output.

Nice, even includes Clear QAM. I wonder if the "ZAT" means any relation to Zinwell (ZAT 950, 970, etc.) or just a common model prefix? I suspect that just like some of the CECBs, some of these dedicated devices tune better than the tuners in the TVs themselves.

This topic gets me wondering how hard it would be for a tinkerer to replace the 'converter' (I assume integrated into the decoder) and output circuitry in a CECB to make it a full-blown HD tuner? Who knows, maybe some of these mfgers use a common platform for both types. Anyone seen a thread related to this subject?
I thought I saw some nice high-def CRTs without DTV tuners going cheap out there as folks replace them with flat panels. Of course probably better to hold off for the folks who replace their wide-screen CRTs. They're some monsters though, bring your forklift.

You can also buy DVD Recorders with ATSC HD tuners for not much more than the recommended box above.

MASTER RESET for a Vizio is to turn TV off, then press and hold both Source/Input and Vol- (minus) buttons on the TV for 5-10 sec.

I wondered about that, anything you like that stands out? Would be sweet if they have dual-tuners, especially for this situation.

That thread has a variety of other stuff but I think it was along the lines of much pricier DVRs. I only glanced at the thread though.

Good info on the Vizeo master reset, wajo.

DVDRs may be able to tune HD channels but they all output SD, which then may be upconverted, but it's SD in between and again is not HD.

Did you try a MASTER RESET as described here?

I did not know that - assuming data was data and the disks are plenty big enough. I searched and found an article on the subject which also discusses some pricier alternatives like DVRs:

http://hometheater.about.com/od/dvdr...drecgfaq14.htm

EDIT/ADD: What it didn't say was whether or not the HD signal could bypass the recorder unmodified to the TV. If so it would still do the job for rj and they said the upconverted recording quality was still better than SD (i.e. if cost is an issue vs a HD DVR, etc.). Now I suspect if a DVDR has a dual tuner then one of the tuners would deliver unmodified HD to the TV.

rj, did you try the Auto Scan in pic #2 after the resetting and Antenna selecting?

That's weird about the DTV Menu (or lack thereof) although I have seen CECBs with menus that aren't active; looked like they were saving the feature for future use but there was nothing to put in there on the current product.

It doesn't look like there's an analog selection in the Cable/Antenna menu unless it prompts for it under Auto Scan. I suppose the newer TVs may not even have analog tuners anymore (cost). Anyhow, if that were the case I would think the CH 3/4 to hook up a VCR, etc. would have to use the Cable selection (try both).

Recorders with unmodulated RF outputs pass through the RF input signal to the TV. The tuner has nothing to do with passed through RF signals. Some model recorders, e.g., the Magnavox 2160/2080 models and Philips 3575/3576 models, amplify passed through RF signals. For more information concerning these HDD/DVD Recorders see the first post in Wajo's sticky thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=940657

The VCR idea is just to test your RF input on CH 3/4.

rj needs a device to take the place of a potentially bad ATSC tuner on his TV, therefore it needs to demodulate the ATSC signal. We're trying to kill two birds with one stone by giving him a recorder too.

Make sure it can be your tuner for ya without having to record. If it were me I'd want it to tune and deliver HD for me too (when not recording).

I own one Panasonic DMR-EZ28, a decent enough DVD Recorder that has an unmodulated RF "pass through" output. I also own four Magnavox 2160 HDD/DVD Recorders that have an unmodulated RF "pass through" output. The 2160 is an outstanding product with NTSC, ATSC and clear QAM tuning and it is easy to upgrade to a larger hard drive (up to 500GB).


DVD and HDD/DVD Recorders with unmodulated RF "pass through" outputs do not downconvert HD signals to SD at the RF output. HD and other signal formats are "passed through" from the RF input to the RF output for connection to the RF input on a TV with functional NTSC, ATSC or clear QAM tuners. DVD and HDD/DVD Recorder line outputs, composite, component, S-Video, and HDMI, provide signals downconverted to SD and/or "upconverted signals" (that are not actually HD).

Perhaps I'll buy more Magnavox 2160 models to put away for the future now that walmart.com has rolled back the price to $198.00. It is not a question of whether or not to buy the 2160; the question is "how many" 2160 models to buy.

QAM would be for the cable tuner although I suppose it's possible the ATSC (digital/antenna) tuner might reside on the same board.

Yes, both the Panasonic DMR-EZ28 DVD Recorder and Magnavox 2160 HDD/DVD Recorder internally "downconvert" the HD signal to SD and then may "upconvert" the signal for HDMI output.

With the complexity of my equipment setups, many with external switching arrangements, I don't use HDMI connections due to actual or potential "handshake" issues.

If you're mainly going to use the DVDR for a tuner for a HDTV I'd probably go with the Panasonic EZ-28. If you're going to record extensively I'd think more of the Magnavox 2160. I've owned both and IMO the EZ-28 has a sharper more HD looking output, even though they are both SD within the machine.
When I had a EZ-28 hooked to a Panasonic 720p LCD and I was tuned to 720p or 480i channel it looked nearly as good and sometimes it seemed better than the TVs built in HD tuner. With 1080i channels I could tell more of a difference and definitely preferred the TVs true HD tuner. The Maggy also lacks a way to delete specific sub channels, it's either all or nothing, if that matters to you. With the Panasonic you can delete specific channels.
Again if you have lots of recording planned the Maggy with it's HDD is the way to go, otherwise for mainly tuner use I'd opt for the Panny.

I see a poster just posted about a DTVPal DVR sale ($200) at Sears.com:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...3#post18561233

Of course we're opening up an entire category here of DVDRs, DVRs, and the like vs price, features, etc. I'm not knowledgeable on that subject.