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DBP2011 & DBP-1611 owner's thread. All questions and comments go here. - Page 8

post #211 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwt View Post

Hi Alan ; do you use the audessey multi eq on your denon ? If you [or anyone using the multi analog ins ] do ; that 32 bit dac in the 2011 will have to be a/d converted by most likely a 24/96 adc in your avr to lpcm then d/a converted again after audessey
The 32 bit dac is a numbers marketing exercise imho ; dvd audio/ bluray concert discs usually run @ 24/96 or 24/48 and their signal/noise ratio etc far exceeds a dacs capabilities in a noisy emi/rf ridden avr or player Now if someone has a good acoustic in the room and doesnt need audessey/arc etc and has a pre pro with an analog passthrough [rare] that would be a bit different ..

Thank you for reminding me about this. I forgot that when I use the analog passthroughs on my AVR-1910 I lose all of the digital processing capabilities. DVD Audio sounds great when I play it directly, but it sounds fantastic through Dolby PLIIx-M. While I'll still be looking forward to the promised reviews, the value of the 2011 for my setup has now diminished to almost nil, though I still have a concern about SACD DSD conversion to HDMI.
post #212 of 1055
Anyone know when the DBP-1611UD will be available? The press release metioned June, but I don't even see an entry for it on the Denon USA website yet.
post #213 of 1055
^try reading
post #214 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by nwrsx View Post

Anyone know when the DBP-1611UD will be available? The press release metioned June, but I don't even see an entry for it on the Denon USA website yet.

They have confirmed it will be released in July now, well maybe, actually they have not given a release date now...
post #215 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

^try reading

After reading your post, I started at the beginning of the thread and re-read everything. I wish I had just gone back one page and read post #205.

Well at least I got to read a whole discussion about what a Universal player does and does not support.
post #216 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by nwrsx View Post

Well at least I got to read a whole discussion about what a Universal player does and does not support.

Why should you miss out on all of the fun.
post #217 of 1055
anyone have a high res picture of the remote to be able to tell if it's kept its zoom function?
post #218 of 1055
Count me in on those waiting to hear about the SACD, I've been using a 2930CI since 2006 for all my audio from red book CD to SACD into my 4308CI in '07 and a Panny BD30K for Blu-ray video waiting for Denon to come out with a "universal" player. When people ask me "why do you have 2 players" I simply put on Dark side of the moon SACD and Wizzard in Blu-ray and let the magic roll! The Kuro 6010 helps also.
post #219 of 1055
Yes it is going to be nice to no longer need a Denon 2900 and a PS3. I am going to be selling both and replace it with one Denon 1611. I am going to miss the heft of the larger 2900 but they HMDI connections is going to be nice to.
post #220 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenonLover View Post

Yes it is going to be nice to no longer need a Denon 2900 and a PS3. I am going to be selling both and replace it with one Denon 1611. I am going to miss the heft of the larger 2900 but they HMDI connections is going to be nice to.

DenonLover,

Unless shelf space is at a premium I wouldn't be so quick to sell the Denon 2900. It could serve as a nice backup if the Denon 1611 becomes finicky on SACD and DVD-A playback. I don't have any shelf space issues so I maintain an Oppo BDP-83SE, Pioneer BDP-23FD and a Yamaha DVD-S1800 in my setup.


Willie
post #221 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

DenonLover,

Unless shelf space is at a premium I wouldn't be so quick to sell the Denon 2900. It could serve as a nice backup if the Denon 1611 becomes finicky on SACD and DVD-A playback. I don't have any shelf space issues so I maintain an Oppo BDP-83SE, Pioneer BDP-23FD and a Yamaha DVD-S1800 in my setup.


Willie

You bring up a very good point Willie. I do have shelf space issues and it is limiting some of my other choices too like wanting to add amps. I have 6 slots to put things and no more. I can always keep it in the garage in a box and swap them out now that I think of it in the event of an issue.
post #222 of 1055
Well, I finally got a response from Denon. Here are the important details:

1. Full resolution SACD DSD will be output via HDMI on both players.

2. Both players will support full 24/192 stereo and 24/96 multi-channel audio through HDMI from DVD Audio.

3. Mating the 2011 wth a quality Denon AVR will lead to redundant video processing, but processing through the 2011 might be preferable.

4. No Denon Link for either player.

5. For those with AVRs which are not HDMI 1.4 compliant (ie., not 3D ready): There is no way to split the signal. For 3D, go HDMI to the set, then send digital audio from the player to the AVR - you will lose HD Audio with this connection however.

It looks like my audio needs overall will be met with the 1611.
post #223 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanwescoat View Post

5. For those with AVRs which are not HDMI 1.4 compliant (ie., not 3D ready): There is no way to split the signal. For 3D, go HDMI to the set, then send digital audio from the player to the AVR - you will lose HD Audio with this connection however.

It looks like my audio needs overall will be met with the 1611.

Poor advice. Use the 7.1 analog outs of the 2011 for lossless audio.

S~
post #224 of 1055
I wouldn't necessarily be so quick to agree... IMHO the difference between the lossy downmix over optical vs lossless audio is pretty minuscule, and is not worth sacrificing the Audyssey MultEQ + Dynamic EQ (which makes a huge difference) when watching movies.

The individual user should probably test both ways and decide for themselves though.... and of course the point is moot if you have a receive w/o Audyssey.
post #225 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanwescoat View Post

1. Full resolution SACD DSD will be output via HDMI on both players.

what about the DSD > PCM conversion over HDMI, for people (like you) whose receiver does not support DSD? Will it decode at the original bitrate or downsample to 48kHz PCM output?
post #226 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I wouldn't necessarily be so quick to agree... IMHO the difference between the lossy downmix over optical vs lossless audio is pretty minuscule, and is not worth sacrificing the Audyssey MultEQ + Dynamic EQ (which makes a huge difference) when watching movies.

The individual user should probably test both ways and decide for themselves though.... and of course the point is moot if you have a receive w/o Audyssey.

I would say it's a bit more than "minuscule", especially if you have a high quality setup incorporating good DACs and speakers, but you do make a good point about loosing the digital room correction.
Depending on the room and setup, some carefully placed room treatments could help yield a better sound via analog, but it all depends greatly against each individuals personal setup, and how much effort and/or money the user is willing to spend to get it right.
For most people these days, the DRC approach is most easy and convenient.
...and, with the advances that these DRC programs are implementing, very soon will come a time when DRC may just be THE very best choice period.
post #227 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanwescoat View Post

5. For those with AVRs which are not HDMI 1.4 compliant (ie., not 3D ready): There is no way to split the signal. For 3D, go HDMI to the set, then send digital audio from the player to the AVR - you will lose HD Audio with this connection however.

Not only will you lose HD audio for movies but also SACD & DVD-A via HDMI, I don't think this will support those formats via optical. It seems Denon overall should have at least included their Denon Link although that might not be offered in many of their receivers any longer. A dual HDMI solution would have made a lot of sense too. The 2011 will be high on my radar though, I need the analog section. I have to ask how Denon has been with support for their Blu Ray players, are they comitted like Sony, Panasonic & Oppo?
post #228 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by cws_kahuna View Post

Not only will you lose HD audio for movies but also SACD & DVD-A via HDMI, I don't think this will support those formats via optical.

Ya, that too. I meant to mention that in the previous post but forgot to.
post #229 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

what about the DSD > PCM conversion over HDMI, for people (like you) whose receiver does not support DSD? Will it decode at the original bitrate or downsample to 48kHz PCM output?

This is definately the question I'm waiting to hear answered.
post #230 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanwescoat View Post

Well, I finally got a response from Denon. Here are the important details:

1. Full resolution SACD DSD will be output via HDMI on both players.

2. Both players will support full 24/192 stereo and 24/96 multi-channel audio through HDMI from DVD Audio.

3. Mating the 2011 wth a quality Denon AVR will lead to redundant video processing, but processing through the 2011 might be preferable.

4. No Denon Link for either player.

5. For those with AVRs which are not HDMI 1.4 compliant (ie., not 3D ready): There is no way to split the signal. For 3D, go HDMI to the set, then send digital audio from the player to the AVR - you will lose HD Audio with this connection however.

It looks like my audio needs overall will be met with the 1611.




Thanks for the info. You answered a couple of questions that I had.
post #231 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanwescoat View Post

Well, I finally got a response from Denon. Here are the important details:


5. For those with AVRs which are not HDMI 1.4 compliant (ie., not 3D ready): There is no way to split the signal. For 3D, go HDMI to the set, then send digital audio from the player to the AVR - you will lose HD Audio with this connection however.


does this mean my 3808ci will not work properly with this player?

thanks
post #232 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by neonflx View Post

does this mean my 3808ci will not work properly with this player?

thanks

It means if you go through a non-1.4 AVR, you won't get 3D video on your 3D display.
post #233 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

what about the DSD > PCM conversion over HDMI, for people (like you) whose receiver does not support DSD? Will it decode at the original bitrate or downsample to 48kHz PCM output?

Hi. I'm sorry, I actually truncated some of my questions to make the info easier to read. Here was my original question and the answer, which I think indicates more clearly what you want to know:

1. SACD playback: Some 'universal' Blu-ray players on the market downsample SACD DSD to CD quality before sending it through HDMI. Details on the DSD to HDMI conversion process for each player would be most appreciated since we're all audiophiles.

A)Full resolution DSD can be output via HDMI on both players.

These answers came from Jeff Talmadge.

While this is not the detailed explanation I was hoping for, at least it is some kind of assurance that Denon will not be skimping on DSD conversion the way some other players have been.

As for the issue of 3D-ready TVs, I am wondering if some or all of the new TVs have an HDMI audio pass-through so that users can implement the new technology without buying a new receiver. In such a setup, the HDMI 1.4 could run from the player to the TV and HDMI 1.3 audio could run from the TV to the AVR. If such a configuration is available (or even possible considering the difficulties of HDCP), it could be a simple workaround.
post #234 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanwescoat View Post

Hi. I'm sorry, I actually truncated some of my questions to make the info easier to read. Here was my original question and the answer, which I think indicates more clearly what you want to know:

1. SACD playback: Some 'universal' Blu-ray players on the market downsample SACD DSD to CD quality before sending it through HDMI. Details on the DSD to HDMI conversion process for each player would be most appreciated since we're all audiophiles.

A)Full resolution DSD can be output via HDMI on both players.

These answers came from Jeff Talmadge.

And stated in Post #30 of this thread.
post #235 of 1055
The product sheet is now up for the BDP 1611UD on the Denon USA website.

http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/5371.asp
post #236 of 1055
For those of you who are considering upgrading your AVR to take advantage of the 3D capabilities of these new players, Denon now lists no less than SEVEN new units ranging in MSRP from $349 to $1,199 which are HDMI 1.4a compliant.
post #237 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by fhfloyd40 View Post

When people ask me "why do you have 2 players" I simply put on Dark side of the moon SACD and Wizzard in Blu-ray and let the magic roll! The Kuro 6010 helps also.

LOL. "Dark Side Of the Rainbow"! What with both sources now on high rez disc, that's an excellent example of one of the pleasures of having two separate decks. I've read that "The Rushian Matrix" is a trippy cool synchronicity experience as well.
post #238 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

... IMHO the difference between the lossy downmix over optical vs lossless audio is pretty minuscule. . .

Is there technically even such a thing as a "lossy downmix"? Although some may think I'm parsing it too finely, if we use "downmix" to mean what happens with a Dolby Digital track when played back via analog 2-channel--the LFE is discarded and the center and left & right surrounds get folded into main L and R--there's no equivalent for that with lossless. It's like it was with DTS--there's no downmix.

My understanding is that what you get from playing Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA lossless via SPDIF is the same rez as the 'highest' previously possible from plain Jane Dolby Digital (444 kbps), Dolby Digital Plus (640 kbps) and what we used to call "full bitrate" DTS (1536 kbps). In other words, there's no "lossless downmix" that provides lossy of a higher rez than previously available just because the source is lossless--you're just getting the best lossy that 'prior' formats could offer (which even on my modest system is a more than miniscule difference on a lot of titles from lossless goodness).

I understand you may be loosely using the term to refer to whatever you get when you playback lossless via SPDIF, but if I understand lossless correctly, I think it's important to be clear that that's not really a "downmix." It's the "core" lossy being extracted.
post #239 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanwescoat View Post

Hi. I'm sorry, I actually truncated some of my questions to make the info easier to read. Here was my original question and the answer, which I think indicates more clearly what you want to know:

1. SACD playback: Some 'universal' Blu-ray players on the market downsample SACD DSD to CD quality before sending it through HDMI. Details on the DSD to HDMI conversion process for each player would be most appreciated since we're all audiophiles.

A)Full resolution DSD can be output via HDMI on both players.

These answers came from Jeff Talmadge.

While this is not the detailed explanation I was hoping for, at least it is some kind of assurance that Denon will not be skimping on DSD conversion the way some other players have been.

As for the issue of 3D-ready TVs, I am wondering if some or all of the new TVs have an HDMI audio pass-through so that users can implement the new technology without buying a new receiver. In such a setup, the HDMI 1.4 could run from the player to the TV and HDMI 1.3 audio could run from the TV to the AVR. If such a configuration is available (or even possible considering the difficulties of HDCP), it could be a simple workaround.

That still doesn't answer the question of DSD to PCM conversion over HDMI. The player is not putting out DSD, but PCM. I have a Denon AVR-789 which does not support DSD. What is the PCM conversion the reciever will recieve??
post #240 of 1055
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanwescoat View Post

Hi. I'm sorry, I actually truncated some of my questions to make the info easier to read. Here was my original question and the answer, which I think indicates more clearly what you want to know:

1. SACD playback: Some 'universal' Blu-ray players on the market downsample SACD DSD to CD quality before sending it through HDMI. Details on the DSD to HDMI conversion process for each player would be most appreciated since we're all audiophiles.

A)Full resolution DSD can be output via HDMI on both players.

These answers came from Jeff Talmadge.

While this is not the detailed explanation I was hoping for, at least it is some kind of assurance that Denon will not be skimping on DSD conversion the way some other players have been.

What other players downsample SACD DSD to CD quality?

The only other players where I thought I heard issues surrounding the handling of DSD were Denon's two previous Universal players the DVD-A1UDCI and DBP-4010UDCI. However, I don't recall the exact problem.

If I'm wrong about the above players someone please feel free to correct me.


Willie
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