AVS › AVS Forum › 3D Central › 3D Displays › The Panasonic VIERA VT25 blew me out of the water!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The Panasonic VIERA VT25 blew me out of the water!

post #1 of 82
4/27/10 at 10:01pm
Thread Starter 
While in a Best Buy today, I stumbled upon the Viera VT25. It was the 50 incher. Blew me out the water. No joke. The 3D was legit. Whew.... It was a sigh of relief for me to know that this modern day 3D really has a chance in the marketplace. After first seeing that one Samsung LCD, I was seriously worried that maybe 3D wasn't going to live up to the hype.

No more. After seeing Monsters vs. Aliens on this Panny, I was blown away. Truly amazing. The 3D was clear and crisp. I felt so much better 3D's future after seeing it. I'm convinced that if enough of the public sees 3Dtv's like that Panasonic, with lots of various 3D media sources, that 3D will be the next big thing in home entertainment.
Reply
Reply

AVS Top Picks

post #2 of 82
4/27/10 at 11:22pm
The demos to date have been VT20 s with the VT25s promised for May 6th. Of course that is a mere technicality since the viewing experience would be the same. Apparently the 25s merely add a professional adjusting feature and of course have the dark copper colored bezel rather than the gunsmoke steel gray one on the 20s. You are correct though that the Panasonic Plasma is most impressive. Can't wait to see the 58 and 65 inchers coming out in June-July.
Reply
Reply
post #3 of 82
4/28/10 at 12:14am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthTV View Post

The demos to date have been VT20 s with the VT25s promised for May 6th. Of course that is a mere technicality since the viewing experience would be the same. Apparently the 25s merely add a professional adjusting feature and of course have the dark copper colored bezel rather than the gunsmoke steel gray one on the 20s. You are correct though that the Panasonic Plasma is most impressive. Can't wait to see the 58 and 65 inchers coming out in June-July.


Yeah, the guy at Best Buy was saying that it was the same as the VT20, that the screens were basically identical, but the VT20 has the silver bezel, and the VT25 has the black. Also, a couple of extra features on the black one. For whatever reason, they had the 3D Blu Ray player hooked up to the VT25, and didn't have anything hooked up to the VT20. I know the VT20's have been available for some time now, but I've never seen one in action. Still haven't. It would be nice if these retailers could put 3D Blu Ray players under all their 3D displays, but unfortunately, that isn't the case. This Best Buy also had the Samsung 3D plasma, but didn't have anything hooked up to it, and had it in an area with tons and tons of light. It wouldn't have looked good anyways...

All I know is, that Panny had me seriously consider signing up for a Best Buy credit card, lol.
Reply
Reply
post #4 of 82
4/28/10 at 5:54pm
Yeah, I got to see the VT20. I was similarly blown away. Very nice display. The price, not-so-much.
Reply
Reply
post #5 of 82
4/28/10 at 10:24pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybereality View Post

Yeah, I got to see the VT20. I was similarly blown away. Very nice display. The price, not-so-much.

Yeah, the 3D picture quality was really fantastic. Better than my expectations. Truly impressive. I was starting to think of ways of coming up with a lot of money really quickly, lol.

But, after coming to my senses, I realized that I just can't bring myself to fork over nearly 3 grand (after tax and all the extras), just to bag a 50 inch Plasma. As amazing as the thing looked (and Boy did it look amazing!), that's just too rich for my blood. Especially with the fact that there really isn't any content currently available yet. The PS3 3D games are coming very soon, but those aren't going to be full 1080p each eye, so that's kinda lame. You can't buy (or rent) and 3D movies yet (at least not separately), and there aren't any movies out there so far besides MVA.

Sure, Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs, and Ice Age 3 are going to be out at some point, but I think those will be bundles as well, which means you can't get them separately anyways. It's pretty bizarre that this is how things are playing out. I've heard at the end of this year there might only be a total of 10 3D BD's available. That's about the lamest launch I can ever imagine. Almost like they want it to fail for some reason?

ESPN 3D is something to pay attention to, as well as the other 3 channels that are coming via Direct TV, but that isn't going to be 1080p to each eye either, so you gotta wonder just how impressive it's really going to be. Even on this amazing Panasonic. If it was a sport I was more interested in (NFL or NBA), I'd probably have to bite the bullet because I wouldn't be able to contain myself (especially the NFL), but World Cup soccer? It might be cool to watch a few times (go Italy!), but I'm sure I'd get bored of it quick.

I will say that I'm still very interested in seeing how these other things might end up looking on this Panasonic. It's definitely the clubhouse leader as far as I'm concerned in terms of the best currently available 3D display.
Reply
Reply
post #6 of 82
4/29/10 at 6:04am
Panasonic's omission of 2D to 3D conversion is a dealbreaker for me and I'm really surprised that the company decided to ignore that feature. Even though the technology is hit or miss it at least gives you some options, especially given the dearth of quality native 3D content available today and for the forseeable future. It would also improve the experience with PS3 and 360 videogames right now and overall would have made the over $1000 premium Panny is asking for their 3D TVs somewhat more palatable. Without that option, buying one of their 3D TVs right now seems somewhat pointless to me, especially given the premium Panasonic is asking for.
Reply
Reply
post #7 of 82
4/29/10 at 7:19am
Panasonic is not charging $1000 premium just for 3D. In fact the VT series has always been considerably more than the G line even before 3D was a differentiator.

As for 2D to 3D conversion, it is like an upconverting DVD player, useless. As much as I'm excited about 3D, I think fake 3D does more harm than good (people will think all 3D looks like fake 3D).
Reply
Reply
post #8 of 82
4/29/10 at 7:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdraw View Post

As for 2D to 3D conversion, it is like an upconverting DVD player, useless. As much as I'm excited about 3D, I think fake 3D does more harm than good (people will think all 3D looks like fake 3D).

3D Upconversion is very much a matter of personal taste. I've seen a few movies this way and I like the results. While I can't speak to it personally, lots of folks have played 360 and PS3 games using 3D conversion and they seem to like the results as well.

I also don't buy the argument that "fake" 3D will turn people off to real 3D; upconverting DVD players haven't seemed to hurt sales of BluRays.

3D upconversion is just a feature, like motion-flow or game mode, or THX settings or R/G/B color adjustment; if I'm going to invest in a 3D TV, I'd rather have the option to use it and choose not to than to not have it at all. That's why I'm kind of mystified - and a little miffed - at Panasonic for choosing to skip it. I love their TVs and if they'd included the capability I probably would already own one.
Reply
Reply
post #9 of 82
4/29/10 at 8:09am
I think the conversion does more harm than good. I can't tell you how many times I've checked out one of the 3-D TV demos around town and noticed they had the set in conversion mode instead of native 3-D mode. When I point this out to the sales people, 90% of the time they either play stupid or actually don't know the difference. Most people causually walking up and putting on the glasses take a look and then immediately comment on how bad the "3-D" is, when in fact, they aren't even seeing 3-D.

While I know some around here seem to love the conversion, to my eyes it ranges from ineffective to downright poor, in the worst cases distorting the image into a mess. But I've seen nearly one hundred different 3-D features projected theatrically, and plenty of field sequential content at home over the years, so I know the real thing.

I don't mind the feature being available, but I wish they could disable to 2D to faux 3-D mode when a true 3-D disc is in the machine. Why would you want to watch a 3-D disc in 2-D to faux 3-D mode anyway? I can understand changing it to flat mode if you didn't have enough glasses to go around or just weren't in the mood, but if you're going to wear the glasses, why not see actual 3-D?

I wouldn't hesitate to buy a Panasonic because it lacks this feature. Most viewers won't use it anyway, for more than a quick try. It does seem that games seem to come out better though.
Reply
Reply
post #10 of 82
4/29/10 at 9:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonydp View Post

3d upconversion is very much a matter of personal taste. I've seen a few movies this way and i like the results. While i can't speak to it personally, lots of folks have played 360 and ps3 games using 3d conversion and they seem to like the results as well.

I also don't buy the argument that "fake" 3d will turn people off to real 3d; upconverting dvd players haven't seemed to hurt sales of blurays.

3d upconversion is just a feature, like motion-flow or game mode, or thx settings or r/g/b color adjustment; if i'm going to invest in a 3d tv, i'd rather have the option to use it and choose not to than to not have it at all. That's why i'm kind of mystified - and a little miffed - at panasonic for choosing to skip it. I love their tvs and if they'd included the capability i probably would already own one.

x100000
Reply
Reply
post #11 of 82
4/29/10 at 10:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

that's just too rich for my blood. Especially with the fact that there really isn't any content currently available yet.

Over 425 PC titles you can play in 3d . . .not much content?
Reply
Reply
post #12 of 82
4/29/10 at 1:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyDP View Post

3D Upconversion is very much a matter of personal taste. I've seen a few movies this way and I like the results. While I can't speak to it personally, lots of folks have played 360 and PS3 games using 3D conversion and they seem to like the results as well.

I also don't buy the argument that "fake" 3D will turn people off to real 3D; upconverting DVD players haven't seemed to hurt sales of BluRays.

3D upconversion is just a feature, like motion-flow or game mode, or THX settings or R/G/B color adjustment; if I'm going to invest in a 3D TV, I'd rather have the option to use it and choose not to than to not have it at all. That's why I'm kind of mystified - and a little miffed - at Panasonic for choosing to skip it. I love their TVs and if they'd included the capability I probably would already own one.

Many of the anti-3D crowd claim 3D is just a gimmick or "fake" anyway. All video and audio is "fake" since it is artificial and not the real thing! Personally, like you I like the 2D to 3D conversion (though it is not perfect) and I wouldn't buy a 3D T.V. without it. If we consider content there is literally no 3D blu-ray content and that's what a lot of consumers are waiting for. 2D to 3D conversion at least gives you an option.
Reply
Reply
post #13 of 82
4/29/10 at 1:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu View Post

Many of the anti-3D crowd claim 3D is just a gimmick or "fake" anyway. All video and audio is "fake" since it is artificial and not the real thing! Personally, like you I like the 2D to 3D conversion (though it is not perfect) and I wouldn't buy a 3D T.V. without it. If we consider content there is literally no 3D blu-ray content and that's what a lot of consumers are waiting for. 2D to 3D conversion at least gives you an option.

It will be interesting to learn how the 2D to 3D conversion offered by Samsung (and to be offered by Sony and Toshiba) will compare to each other as well as how it compares to likely 3rd party options that will eventually work on any Full HD 3D TV. (See link below.)

If the latter is no worse than what comes with the Samsung/Sony/Toshiba 3D TVs then it does seem one can have their cake and eat it too by going with the superior Panasonic Plasma 3D TV.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1237707
Reply
Reply
post #14 of 82
4/29/10 at 4:39pm
For me, I plan to buy a 3D TV with the 2d conversion technology. Even if the picture is inferior to a Panasonic. I saw the 2D to 3D conversion at Best Buy and while it was not spectacular, it was enough to convince me to buy a TV with it. I just don't see enough 3D content coming out in the next year or 2. Since I don't watch DVD movies over and over I don't plan on buying a library of 3D movies.

Does anyone know if the 2D to 3D conversions have some manual controls to dial up or down the depth of the 3D effect?
Reply
Reply
post #15 of 82
4/29/10 at 5:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthTV View Post

If the latter is no worse than what comes with the Samsung/Sony/Toshiba 3D TVs then it does seem one can have their cake and eat it too by going with the superior Panasonic Plasma 3D TV.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1237707

Do you have a link to a review that states in what ways that the Panasonic Plasma 3D TVs is superior to the Samsung 3D TVs?
Reply
Reply
post #16 of 82
4/29/10 at 5:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthTV View Post

If the latter is no worse than what comes with the Samsung/Sony/Toshiba 3D TVs then it does seem one can have their cake and eat it too by going with the superior Panasonic Plasma 3D TV.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1237707

Do you have a link to a review that states in what ways that the Panasonic Plasma 3D TVs are superior to the Samsung Plasma 3D TVs?
Reply
Reply
post #17 of 82
4/29/10 at 5:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

Do you have a link to a review that states in what ways that the Panasonic Plasma 3D TVs is superior to the Samsung 3D TVs?

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/ele...k-three-d.html

http://hdguru.com/panasonic-tc-p50vt...t-review/1391/

I haven't done a review myself, but do think that Panasonic's 3D demo at CES was superior.
Reply
Reply
post #18 of 82
4/29/10 at 6:00pm
Well I haven't seen the 3D conversion on the Samsung sets but I just can't imagine it does a very good job. And I have done research into 3d conversion algorithms, its complex stuff. I think it might be possible but its just hard to believe the TV has the horse-power to do it in real-time. But some people seem to be impressed so it must do something, right?
Reply
Reply
post #19 of 82
4/29/10 at 6:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

Do you have a link to a review that states in what ways that the Panasonic Plasma 3D TVs are superior to the Samsung Plasma 3D TVs?

I don't believe anyone has seen a Samsung Plasma do 3D, in fact I don't even remember seeing one at CES.
Reply
Reply
post #20 of 82
4/29/10 at 6:55pm
See :

http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/06/s...ng-the-states/
Reply
Reply
post #21 of 82
4/29/10 at 9:06pm
Samsung has 3D plasmas for sale now in several sizes. I've extensively demoed the 8000 plasma model in native 3D mode (friends at the store) and sadly the ghosting / crosstalk is pretty bad on the MVA disc. During the 3-D Masters footage, it was much less obvious. The ghosting is the same on the Samsung LED/LCDs. 2D to faux 3D conversion did not impress me at all.

I didn't see much if any on the Panasonic.
Reply
Reply
post #22 of 82
4/29/10 at 10:30pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve P. View Post

Samsung has 3D plasmas for sale now in several sizes. I've extensively demoed the 8000 plasma model in native 3D mode (friends at the store) and sadly the ghosting / crosstalk is pretty bad on the MVA disc. During the 3-D Masters footage, it was much less obvious. The ghosting is the same on the Samsung LED/LCDs. 2D to faux 3D conversion did not impress me at all.

I didn't see much if any on the Panasonic.


Damn.... That's really unfortunate. I was thinking that maybe it was a Plasma thing, and all the plasmas would look as incredible as the Panasonic. So far, I've only seen the 55 inch Samsung LED LCD, and the VT25. (in regards to the new ones with hdmi 1.4). I was really hoping that the Samsung plasma would look as good as the Panny, because the Samsung prices are a bit lower,and I could see myself affording one of those much sooner than the Panny's.

I guess we'll have to wait and see how LG, Sony, Sharp and all the rest perform. Right now, I don't think it's even a question as to which manufacturer is doing 3D properly. It's Panasonic all the way. (at least at this early juncture).
Reply
Reply
post #23 of 82
4/30/10 at 2:45am
I feel I must be one of the few on here that is just not seeing the big step up from the Samsungs to the Pannys in PQ.

My first viewing of the Samsung was not good at a Best Buy, but since I have seen several and I have no issues with the Samsung PQ at all.
Reply
Reply
post #24 of 82
4/30/10 at 3:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

Do you have a link to a review that states in what ways that the Panasonic Plasma 3D TVs are superior to the Samsung Plasma 3D TVs?

http://g4tv.com/attackoftheshow/gadg...TV-Review.html


This Panasonic TV isn't as sleek as the Samsung 3D TV we reviewed before, but it does have twice as many inputs.
Most of them are on the back, so it'll be harder to wall mount. The rest of the inputs are along the side.
The TV measures about 3.5" thick with a plain gray and black finish.
The 3D feature is much better on this TV than the Samsung.
We immediately noticed a difference in that there was little to no cross-talk, which is the way 3D is supposed to look.
We also didn't have to warm up the TV or adjust any settings. It works perfectly right off the bat.
The reason why the 3D looks better is because the plasma has better response times and refresh rates than an LCD TV.
This means images are rendered quicker and won't leave behind "ghosts" of themselves.
Panasonic's Viera Cast service works fine with access to YouTube, Netflix and other Internet Apps.
It's easy to navigate around but might slow down when loading a lot of data.
A lot more apps like Skype and Twitter are coming soon
Overall, it's not as complete as Samsung's App store but it's promising.
The TV also looks great when not using the 3D feature.
Blacks are some of the deepest we've seen.
The colors aren't quite as vivid as yesterday's Samsung, but they are incredibly accurate.
Since it's a plasma, it doesn't have the smooth motion feature but fast moving action scenes still look terrific.
Overall, picture quality is rock solid.
Price

$2,500.00
Rating

4 Seals of Approval out of 5. (How do we rate gadgets?)
If you absolutely need to buy a 3D television right now, this is the one to get.
It's the best 3D experience on the market.
A pair of 3D glasses are included.
You'll also need a 3D Blu-ray player for $400.
The total price is about $2,900 for the full 3D effect.
Want something reviewed on Gadget Pr0n? Email us your suggestions to gadgetpron@g4tv.com.





Read more: http://g4tv.com/attackoftheshow/gadg...#ixzz0mZtSRzFk
Reply
Reply
post #25 of 82
4/30/10 at 3:29am
http://g4tv.com/attackoftheshow/gadg...TV-Review.html



Samsung always has a leg up on the competition when it comes to design, and even with added 3D functionality, it's still incredibly sleek
All the inputs are cleverly built-in to the side, so you can wall mount it
It is only 1.1 thick
The main problem with 3D TVs is something called cross-talk, which means you're seeing a ghost of the second image on the edge of the first
This is what makes watching 3D on a TV hard for a lot of people; it very rarely looks like one singular image
This TV had more pronounced cross-talk than other sets we've looked at, which isn't good
The 3D Optimize and 3D Viewpoint options did help to make the 3D image clearer
Samsung actually told us that if you warm up the TV, 3D looks better, which it did
Overall, it's not the best 3D we've seen, but it's watchable
Samsung has also improved their web-connected apps store
The layout is more intuitive and feels more like an app store we've used before
As of now, everything is free, and there are tons of apps, like Netflix, Blockbuster, Pandora, Voodoo, Yahoo Widgets, etc.
Picture quality when you're watching non-3D content is amazing.
Blacks are deep, and colors are super vibrant
The amount of detail you can see is incredible
The 240 hertz Smooth Motion feature (which eliminates motion blur) has always been something that Samsung is the best at
Overall, it's one of the best TVs we've seen, when not watching in 3D
The 3D experience is not quite perfect on this TV, and we don't know if it's worth it to upgrade right now

Price

$2,300
You'll also need a 3D Blu-ray player for $400 and 3D glasses for $150
The total price is about $2,900 to get the full 3D experience
Another huge problem; there's only one true 3D Blu-ray you can buy, Monsters vs. Aliens

Overall Rating

3 Seals of Approval Out of 5 (How do we rate gadgets?)
Want something reviewed on Gadget Pr0n? Email us your suggestions to gadgetpron@g4tv.com.



Read more: http://g4tv.com/attackoftheshow/gadg...#ixzz0mZuBOHfc
Reply
Reply
post #26 of 82
4/30/10 at 6:28am
Both of the above reviews are comparing the Panasonic 3D Plasma with the Samsung 3D LCD and not with the Samsung 3D Plasma.
Reply
Reply
post #27 of 82
4/30/10 at 8:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

Both of the above reviews are comparing the Panasonic 3D Plasma with the Samsung 3D LCD and not with the Samsung 3D Plasma.

And I've seen ghosting on a Panasonic PDP when their "Tour" came through.
Reply
Reply
post #28 of 82
4/30/10 at 11:21am
Alot depends on how the stores set these up. I've seen the Samsung in Best Buy and it looked really good. When watching Monsters V. Aliens 3D I saw no ghosting and the depth was excellent. However, I saw the exact same set the other day in Sears and I'm not sure what the crap they did when setting it up but it looked aweful and the 3D was pretty much non-existant and there was lots of ghosting.
Reply
Reply
post #29 of 82
4/30/10 at 2:42pm
There hasn't been any reviews of the Samsung C8000 Plasma that I have seen but I will say the consumer reports video blog TOTALLY turned me off LCDs.....so many issues and the big LCD are more expensive than plasmas:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8haf9oIlkk

How anyone could be a fan of 3D LCDs over 3D plasmas after this is beyond me.....
Reply
Reply
post #30 of 82
4/30/10 at 2:53pm
Plasma's all buzz out here in the Rockies and draw even more power.

I like LCD well enough. I wish I was involved in some of this testing. I have seen good and bad demos of the same exact display and BD players hooked together at different retailers.
Reply
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: 3D Displays

AVS Top Picks

AVS › AVS Forum › 3D Central › 3D Displays › The Panasonic VIERA VT25 blew me out of the water!