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How to DIY ; TX-SR576/TX-SR606/etc HDMI daughterboard repair (for dummies?) - Page 2

post #31 of 650
6/2/10 at 9:32pm
I own a TX SR674 that's just over 3 yrs old. It recently began to show signs of premature "old age" - it took several minutes to "warm up" with an HD channel selected (through HDMI or component video in, HDMI out.)
I found this thread after much research (and a few unproductive emails to OnkyouUSA) and decided to give it a shot. The HDMI daughterboard is substantially different on the 674, and the cap numbers are not the same, but it seems to have worked. I replaced caps c8912, c8911, c8141, c8154, c8596, c8079 with 100uF 16v high temp caps. I only pulled the traces off one of em!
So far the fix seems to have worked; the HD channels fired up right away after I reinstalled it. So thanks for the DIY inspiration CZ!
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post #32 of 650
6/5/10 at 1:42am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodore King View Post

I own a TX SR674 that's just over 3 yrs old. It recently began to show signs of premature "old age" - it took several minutes to "warm up" with an HD channel selected (through HDMI or component video in, HDMI out.)
I found this thread after much research (and a few unproductive emails to OnkyouUSA) and decided to give it a shot. The HDMI daughterboard is substantially different on the 674, and the cap numbers are not the same, but it seems to have worked. I replaced caps c8912, c8911, c8141, c8154, c8596, c8079 with 100uF 16v high temp caps. I only pulled the traces off one of em!
So far the fix seems to have worked; the HD channels fired up right away after I reinstalled it. So thanks for the DIY inspiration CZ!

I appologize for the tardy response but this is making me grin...thanks for taking the time to share your similar results.
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post #33 of 650
6/11/10 at 8:39am
I have a 606 with the HDMI problem, too. Started needing to be warmed up (longer & longer), then shut off & on, to get a pic. Then one day, no pic at all. I just replaced the 100mf's (thanks!), and the HDMI works. However, still no component or composite pics, and no setup screen. What next?

Also, we got a Samsung BD-P1600 blu ray. Hooked up via HDMI, I get the start up graphic, but then after a few seconds the pic disappears (dvd player switches resolution here?). This happened even before the receiver lost its pic. DVD directly to tv works fine. Any ideas on this one?

Thanks in advance.
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post #34 of 650
6/12/10 at 3:06pm
CZ, what is your understanding about placement of the .1 or 1uF caps mentioned in the other thread? I never got to see the photos that were posted. Supposedly they are posted across the leads of some transistor for a ripple damping effect? Do you feel they are necessary if more robust 16V high temp 100uF caps are used in the initial replacement?
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post #35 of 650
6/14/10 at 7:52am
Here are the the pics from the other thread:

docs.google.com/leaf?id=0BwM-Fs8QT0bLYTU2YmViNTYtZWY2MC00YzRlLTljYmMtZjNmZGRjOGQ3Mzk0&hl=en

docs.google.com/leaf?id=0BwM-Fs8QT0bLYjJjZDYwYjAtYTEyNi00ZmY1LTk4ODAtNWNlMDYwMWQ5M2Jk&hl=en

all credits goes to spldart
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post #36 of 650
6/14/10 at 6:03pm
Thanks for the links, the placement seems pretty clear. Now I just need to order enough parts to (hopefully) repair two 606's and one 667.
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post #37 of 650
6/17/10 at 9:50am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gesav View Post

I have a 606 with the HDMI problem, too. Started needing to be warmed up (longer & longer), then shut off & on, to get a pic. Then one day, no pic at all. I just replaced the 100mf's (thanks!), and the HDMI works. However, still no component or composite pics, and no setup screen. What next?

Hey gesav it's great to hear the positives but you seem to be where navtek got to and I suspect the mods provista linked to should be considered first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gesav View Post

Also, we got a Samsung BD-P1600 blu ray. Hooked up via HDMI, I get the start up graphic, but then after a few seconds the pic disappears (dvd player switches resolution here?). This happened even before the receiver lost its pic. DVD directly to tv works fine. Any ideas on this one?

Thanks in advance.

Just a theory here but I believe HDCP might be coming into play here since it is intolerant to any corruption. Why it would be enabled (by the BD-P1600) before attempting to play a copywrited disc makes no sense however.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capricio View Post

CZ, what is your understanding about placement of the .1 or 1uF caps mentioned in the other thread? I never got to see the photos that were posted. Supposedly they are posted across the leads of some transistor for a ripple damping effect? Do you feel they are necessary if more robust 16V high temp 100uF caps are used in the initial replacement?

Again, Capricio, photos have been kindly provided. As for the necessity I would say they don't compensate for poor quality 100uF replacements but rather for an imperfect design and/or degrading caps elsewhere. (BTW those 'transistors' are fixed value regulators. ie as marked: 'BA18BCO' produces 1.8 volts, '91 330' is a 3.3 volter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by provista View Post

Here are the the pics from the other thread:

docs.google.com/leaf?id=0BwM-Fs8QT0bLYTU2YmViNTYtZWY2MC00YzRlLTljYmMtZjNmZGRjOGQ3Mzk0&hl=en

docs.google.com/leaf?id=0BwM-Fs8QT0bLYjJjZDYwYjAtYTEyNi00ZmY1LTk4ODAtNWNlMDYwMWQ5M2Jk&hl=en

all credits goes to spldart

Thanks provista for forwarding these as I have appealed for this info for some time - just what other thread is this you speak of?
The value of these add-ons must be .1 uF and they are likely helping filter the 300kHz produced within the DC-DC circuits feeding these 3 pin regulators or something they themselves emit. There are other regulators that don't get this touch for some reason. I have read that HDMI board repairs have been hit or miss at the service depot level - either because more caps (besides the 100uFs) need replacing or they feel a chip(s) became damaged.
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post #38 of 650
6/17/10 at 4:36pm
I'm talking about a thread at the High Def Forum (www highdefforum.com/high-definition-receivers-recorders-players-tivos/106255-onkyo-tx-sr606-hdmi-switching-headache-6.html).
Spldart is working with Onkyo amps as a living and he shared a lot of useful information about the problems people are having with the hdmi boards.
The caps above those regulators are rated 1uf by the way.
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post #39 of 650
6/23/10 at 2:05pm
Well, my parts finally came in. I bought enough 100uF (x30 105C) and 1uF (x12 ceramic) to fix 3 receivers.

I have a 606 that is showing very bad symptoms. It used to be my main receiver but I got frustrated and ordered a new Denon AVR-790. Cool as a cucumber, but what a crap remote... I like it a lot better now with a Logitch Harmony One. ...but I digress. I lent this 606 out to a friend that had nothing but now is suffering with long wait times, etc.

CZ, the reason I was asking about the 1uF caps is because my 667 still works perfectly. I kind of interpreted (maybe incorrectly) SLPdart to be saying the root cause of the failing 100uF caps was the ripple from the regulators. At one point he says if you don't apply the 1uF across the regulators, you're bound to have another failure eventually. So, is it reasonable to assume that if I just apply the 1uF caps to my perfectly working 667, it's probably not worth the trouble "upgrading" the 100uF while I have everything apart? Or maybe just the ones he marked with a black dot in his photo? Or should I just blast all the 100uF while I'm in there, pre-emptively?

The other 606 is one I recommended to my uncle that doesn't live nearby. I feel pretty guilty about recommending a lemon to him, since he relied on my judgement for all his AV purchases. I hope I can fix them all, I'll probably start this weekend.
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post #40 of 650
6/24/10 at 4:41pm
Since i dont have any answer from my post on the sr606 thread i'm posting here, I think it a more revelent place to post for my issue.

So hi guys i'm fairly new here but i've read a lot of thread since i'm an owner of a sr-606 since almost two years.

I had some issue with my onkyo since he is not able to send 1080p to my projector but he is on my ACL. So after reading some thread about the capacitor on the dauhhtercard i've decided to open the unit and see what he look like inside.

Here is what i've found...







What you guys think? Is that normal? Do I try to change the capacitor to see if it solve my issue?

Thanks for your help.
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post #41 of 650
6/28/10 at 12:11am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capricio View Post

Well, my parts finally came in. I bought enough 100uF (x30 105C) and 1uF (x12 ceramic) to fix 3 receivers.

I have a 606 that is showing very bad symptoms. It used to be my main receiver but I got frustrated and ordered a new Denon AVR-790. Cool as a cucumber, but what a crap remote... I like it a lot better now with a Logitch Harmony One. ...but I digress. I lent this 606 out to a friend that had nothing but now is suffering with long wait times, etc.

CZ, the reason I was asking about the 1uF caps is because my 667 still works perfectly. I kind of interpreted (maybe incorrectly) SLPdart to be saying the root cause of the failing 100uF caps was the ripple from the regulators. At one point he says if you don't apply the 1uF across the regulators, you're bound to have another failure eventually. So, is it reasonable to assume that if I just apply the 1uF caps to my perfectly working 667, it's probably not worth the trouble "upgrading" the 100uF while I have everything apart? Or maybe just the ones he marked with a black dot in his photo? Or should I just blast all the 100uF while I'm in there, pre-emptively?

The other 606 is one I recommended to my uncle that doesn't live nearby. I feel pretty guilty about recommending a lemon to him, since he relied on my judgement for all his AV purchases. I hope I can fix them all, I'll probably start this weekend.

Sorry about another delay on my part...and with your self poised to act as well. It seems I've read enough about how capacitors age to interpret what goes down as any replacement caps will again suffer premature increase in ESR and/or decrease in capacitance which can invoke oscillations from the regulator. The add-on capacitor will deter these oscillations for some extent of time.
Just knowing that my parts have been cooking for some time would inspire me to begin fresh. If you feel each cap changed presents a risk of the board being damaged then only do the prescribed ones. I was more liberal when it came to 100uFs because of a lack of specific information at the time. The add-ons which I once mused would cure more existing symptoms are instead preventers of history repeating itself (too quickly). It would be interesting to hear that someone got their AVR to resume function with just the add-ons (prior to wisely switching out the 100s)
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post #42 of 650
7/19/10 at 3:41pm
Where can I purchase these capacitors?
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post #43 of 650
7/21/10 at 3:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by noavsense View Post

where can i purchase these capacitors?


+1
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post #44 of 650
7/27/10 at 8:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8000HD View Post



So is that white stuff supposed to be there? I assume so.

I have noticed HDMI issues lately and its getting more annoying. I took a flashlight to mine but didn't notice anything obvious. I purchased mine on 8/29/08 from Crutchfield so I am still good in terms of warranty.

Is there any way to tell 100% sure the hardware went bad by looking at it?
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post #45 of 650
7/27/10 at 11:23am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoAVsense View Post

Where can I purchase these capacitors?

If I hadn't scavenged mine from a two year old DVD player (R.I.Pieces), this may have been one likely source;
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...t%252bxg%3d%3d
I didn't realize the difficulty of narrowing down candidates until I looked into it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mackworth View Post

So is that white stuff supposed to be there? I assume so.

I have noticed HDMI issues lately and its getting more annoying. I took a flashlight to mine but didn't notice anything obvious. I purchased mine on 8/29/08 from Crutchfield so I am still good in terms of warranty.

Is there any way to tell 100% sure the hardware went bad by looking at it?

In the cases of the infamous desktop motherboards several years back and for large electrolytics in general, you could/can identify failed Caps....not so however in this situation.

The white stuff is adhesive meant for vibration proofing and I mentioned it as an option but did not follow my own advice.
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post #46 of 650
8/2/10 at 11:29am
I had my receiver repaired under warranty. They just replaced some capacitors in the shop. They did however give me a copy of the technical bulletin from Onkyo and I will also include the details from my service ticket. Hopefully some will find this useful.
LL
LL
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post #47 of 650
8/4/10 at 10:44pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mycotopian View Post

I had my receiver repaired under warranty. They just replaced some capacitors in the shop. They did however give me a copy of the technical bulletin from Onkyo and I will also include the details from my service ticket. Hopefully some will find this useful.

I have to say mycotopian has contributed valuable facts that were previously speculated or otherwise unknown. A real DIYer's hero(ine) for sure ! This needs to be slipstreamed earlier in this thread and I'll make it so. Now, where or when did I put my time machine... ;-)
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post #48 of 650
8/23/10 at 12:34pm
Bump.

So, I have a 606 that's exhibiting the same issues. I have a coworker who is an electronics technician, so he said he'd do the soldering for me. I went to a local store (www.active123.com), and picked up the following:

10 x Electrolytic Cap. 25V 100MF/uF

Will these work for replacing the four old caps mentioned two posts above? The guy said I could return them if they were wrong.

edit: here's the specs from the P/N listed on the package:
http://octopart.com/sk025m0100bzf-0611-yageo-10309993
Yageo sk series 100 uf 25 v 20 % radial through hole aluminum electrolytic capacitor
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post #49 of 650
8/31/10 at 10:58am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomethingMore View Post

Bump.
...I went to a local store (www.active123.com), and picked up the following:

10 x Electrolytic Cap. 25V 100MF/uF

lol...i've actually been in there...not as much though since they moved from the Macleod Trail area...(circa 80's; I'm old!)...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SomethingMore View Post

Will these work for replacing the four old caps mentioned two posts above?

AFAIK, the main rationale for not using higher rated caps would be size/cost. If the lead length can still be kept minimal and/or the caps aren't laying on a hot component, then no problem. If the ESR of the cap increases (as a result of higher volt rating) past an allowable level for the circuit design, then that would be one caveat I could forsee.
Having looked at the .pdf my impression is that you've aquired lower quality (i.e. only 85degC), general purpose parts but it's not like the ones I used were premium.

PS...go Stamps!
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post #50 of 650
9/1/10 at 5:05am
I've fitted the 4 replacement 100uF caps to my 606 (85deg as a test, 105deg arriving soon so will have to open the box again) and all is looking good (for now) Has anyone tried installing any forced cooling into the box? Any thoughts as what power supply to connect a fan to (I don't want any additional noise from the fan getting on to the already problematic supply lines!!) Any ideas as to where could be a suitable mounting position?

Also, the Onkyo repair sheet referencing fix 10050402 and the TF caps...anyone know how would you tell if the parts are Toshiba and not ROHM?
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post #51 of 650
9/4/10 at 6:46am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wax_ya_paps View Post

I've fitted the 4 replacement 100uF caps to my 606 (85deg as a test, 105deg arriving soon so will have to open the box again) and all is looking good (for now) Has anyone tried installing any forced cooling into the box? Any thoughts as what power supply to connect a fan to (I don't want any additional noise from the fan getting on to the already problematic supply lines!!) Any ideas as to where could be a suitable mounting position?

Also, the Onkyo repair sheet referencing fix 10050402 and the TF caps...anyone know how would you tell if the parts are Toshiba and not ROHM?

Hi wax_ya_paps, there were TF cap mod pics submitted earlier and credited to 'spldart'. Unfortunately after trying to determine which part numbers lay beneath the added caps on the less than ideal photos I can only say with limited certainty that they probably aren't BA18BCO. When one searches that, it implies Rohm and that's what I have. IOW, if your markings differ, assume Toshiba. There are other (3.3 volt) regs on my board marked '91 330' but the closest I came to a maker is JRC - they don't appear affected by the bulletin anyways.
As for cooling, I have placed a surplus CPU fan in front of the boards to pull air through the dead space. It is wired into the HDMI board's main 12v in. To reduce voltage - and thus noise - there are two general purpose diodes also in series. I noticed this 'Phenom II' OEM fan self-adjusts RPMs relative to ambient temp...bonus. All I wanted was minimal circulation to prevent heat build-up anyways.
(---future pictures here ASAP---)
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post #52 of 650
9/4/10 at 12:00pm
I take it there's no way to buy a 606 HDMI daughterboard and replace it yourself? I'm handy, but not so handy as to replace all those capacitors. I've soldered once, and it was a mess (the mod worked though, turning an ntsc dvd player into multi-region).
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post #53 of 650
9/7/10 at 9:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodore King View Post

I own a TX SR674 that's just over 3 yrs old. It recently began to show signs of premature "old age" - it took several minutes to "warm up" with an HD channel selected (through HDMI or component video in, HDMI out.)
I found this thread after much research (and a few unproductive emails to OnkyouUSA) and decided to give it a shot. The HDMI daughterboard is substantially different on the 674, and the cap numbers are not the same, but it seems to have worked. I replaced caps c8912, c8911, c8141, c8154, c8596, c8079 with 100uF 16v high temp caps. I only pulled the traces off one of em!
So far the fix seems to have worked; the HD channels fired up right away after I reinstalled it. So thanks for the DIY inspiration CZ!

Stopped by my local electronics shop today and they only had 100uF, 16V units. No 10V. So, now that you've had yours in for almost 3 months, any issues?

CZ: Any reason not to use a 16V model? Or should I keep looking for 10V?
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post #54 of 650
9/8/10 at 11:11am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishstickjesus View Post

Stopped by my local electronics shop today and they only had 100uF, 16V units. No 10V. So, now that you've had yours in for almost 3 months, any issues?
CZ: Any reason not to use a 16V model? Or should I keep looking for 10V?

If you follow my suggestions for SomethingMore, I don't see a problem. Temperature rating and manufacturing materials are bigger factors. The ESR of any cap is not always easy to determine/anticipate. My repaired unit still behaves like new ; even without the added fan I would have not 'expected' a problem yet.

editguy...The question of buying a replacement board was asked already and the answer depends solely on how much you end up paying for one. I doubt the ONKYO factory sells directly to consumers so you are at the mercy of depot mark-up. Maybe you could bring your unit to a local high school electronics shop class along with this guide...
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post #55 of 650
9/12/10 at 1:16am
Bought a replacement integra 5.9 to replace one that had the HDMI die on me. Figured I give it a shot and try replacing the 4 caps per the service bulletin. Worked fine! I put in Radio Shack 100uf 35v caps. A deviation from the ones CZ_the_DAY recommended; if that is dangerous let me know. However, I had run it the past 4 hrs, having done the following - a PS3 pass through, upscaled output from component Roku, and a composite toshiba DVD player. No problems, so far... CZ_the_DAY, u r the man!!! Now I am thinking of selling both 5.9's and getting a newer model...
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post #56 of 650
9/12/10 at 2:25pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodz93 View Post

....I put in Radio Shack 100uf 35v caps. A deviation from the ones CZ_the_DAY recommended; if that is dangerous let me know....

You're surely better off running that AVR symptom-free by any means possible; plus you've shown us what can work. Consider alternate caps if you experience issues again someday. Active air circulation might postpone that for a long time.
I spent a good part of my allowance in our local Radio Shack as a teen - RIP RS (Canadian).
U R welcome woodz93 and kudos 2 U !
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post #57 of 650
9/14/10 at 9:02am
Hey everyone. First time post here. I Have a 606 that my father passed down to me after it died and after reading this thread I was about to order the 100uf 10v caps that CZ_the_Day recommended but saw the post about the radio shack 100uf 35v caps and decided to give those a shot. I replaced the four caps (C8072,C8096,C8602,and C8609) and quickly tested it out. IT WORKED! was playing Xbox for a little bit and now waiting to really test it out later tonight when I start playing Halo Reach. The OSD now works as well.

BIG thanks goes out to CZ_the_DAY, mycotopian, and everyone else who has contributed to this thread! I'll keep everyone updated on further testing.

Oh, and being a noob at electronic repair, I was caught up with figuring out which solder point was (-) or (+). After a little bit of thinking, I figured out that the small black mark on the original cap indicated the (-) side. Just a little heads up for any other newbies trying this fix.
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post #58 of 650
9/14/10 at 9:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CZ_the_DAY View Post

lol...i've actually been in there...not as much though since they moved from the Macleod Trail area...(circa 80's; I'm old!)...

Nice! Saw you were from Alberta, but didn't even cross my mind that you might be in Calgary, too!

Quote:


AFAIK, the main rationale for not using higher rated caps would be size/cost. If the lead length can still be kept minimal and/or the caps aren't laying on a hot component, then no problem. If the ESR of the cap increases (as a result of higher volt rating) past an allowable level for the circuit design, then that would be one caveat I could forsee.
Having looked at the .pdf my impression is that you've aquired lower quality (i.e. only 85degC), general purpose parts but it's not like the ones I used were premium.

Yeah, it appears that these were they only ones in stock that slightly resembled your recommendations. It seems that these should work just fine (I haven't gotten around to installing them just yet), but are susceptible to the same death as the original caps, right?

Quote:


PS...go Stamps!

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post #59 of 650
9/14/10 at 10:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chupinsky27 View Post

Hey everyone. First time post here. I Have a 606 that my father passed down to me after it died and after reading this thread I was about to order the 100uf 10v caps that CZ_the_Day recommended but saw the post about the radio shack 100uf 35v caps and decided to give those a shot. I replaced the four caps (C8072,C8096,C8602,and C8609) and quickly tested it out. IT WORKED! was playing Xbox for a little bit and now waiting to really test it out later tonight when I start playing Halo Reach. The OSD now works as well.

BIG thanks goes out to CZ_the_DAY, mycotopian, and everyone else who has contributed to this thread! I'll keep everyone updated on further testing.

Oh, and being a noob at electronic repair, I was caught up with figuring out which solder point was (-) or (+). After a little bit of thinking, I figured out that the small black mark on the original cap indicated the (-) side. Just a little heads up for any other newbies trying this fix.


Great work homie!
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post #60 of 650
9/15/10 at 10:28pm
Thread Starter 
chupinsky27, I had to read twice....thought it was your father that died at first (d'oh). I second what lostcase said and I'll attempt to address polarity related instructions you have addressed.

SomethingMore, I was born there, visited regularly in the past, but have long lived two hours south-ish.

Apparently, as per the manufacturer datasheets, the 'lifespan' of a given Cap is typically only a couple thousand hours when at the rated temperature. Hence my push to use top notch stuff in case heat build-up isn't reduced. Other variables like materials or size (result of voltage rating,etc) may have unknown subtle effects in sensitive circumstances (rocket science alert!).
Bottom line: thankfully this repair has been proven to be somewhat flexible.

-professor F.
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