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Call of Duty: Black Ops - Page 382

post #11431 of 11893
Quote:
Originally Posted by PJ_Rage View Post

Anyway, bd, you sound really in tune with the game. I'm surprised you don't notice the difference between MW2 and BLOPS. Have you played them back to back lately? You should try it and report back. I'm curious what your impression is.

Like I said about a million times, I do notice the difference. Its huge. Played them back to back the other day. The netcode and hit detection is the exact same. It's the accuracy of the weapons and the resulting protracted gunfights that make all the difference. If the MW3 guns fire straight like MW2, and don't kick like a donkey like blops, MW3 will feel just like MW1/2.
post #11432 of 11893
Then what the hell are we arguing about, lol. I call it perceived lag because I know it's not real (traditional) lag. I've said that many many times.

I've said it could be any number of things including hit detection, net code, actual lag, simply that the hit markers are way louder, animations not being synced, whatever. It could all be psychological from certain factors I haven't even guessed at yet. The point I've been trying to make since launch is that it is there. We can guess all day long as to why, as long as we agree that there is a difference. It is my preference, my very strong preference, that games play out like MW2, and not like BLOPS. I don't mind recoil, I actually quite enjoy it, but not at the expense of compromising the gameplay.

That was a theory of mine a while back, that the hit detection could seem off because the handling of recoil animations/display is not great. Particularly, I suspected that the actual bullet trajectory of the bullets out of the gun does not always match what the animation of the recoil is showing the user. This makes it "look" like one thing has happened, but that's not what *really* happened (and by really I mean where the bullets went in the server/host's opinion). If this is happening, and what you see is not well translated to what you get, then it could very well explain my problem with the game.

I'm glad you at least agree that MW2 has a huge difference. We can now further debate why that is.

You might be right, the core netcode is the same (although I'm not sure that I'm entirely convinced on this matter anyway). But a few 'key' variables being set to the same value, identical netcode it does not make. And I know the official claim is that it's the same, I don't dispute that.
post #11433 of 11893
I think part of the problem is how high a standard CoD sets for their detection. Before CoD brought ADS as a standard to basically every FPS, all we really had to go on was that little box within the crosshairs. In CoD, a hit is determined by *exactly* where the sight is. No other game does this. Pull the trigger full auto, and you can see how the sight is at the *exact* spot the shot hit. Then look at battlefield and just about every other game, and the sights fly around like mad when ADS. That might seem more realistic in some ways, but i cant stand it, and it obscures the hit detection. So you just assume all is gravy cause you cant really tell otherwise. That doesn't fly in CoD. Making the aiming perfect brings out minute flaws you otherwise might not notice.
post #11434 of 11893
On another note, here's another sticky kill from last night:

post #11435 of 11893
Quote:
Originally Posted by alberto1985 View Post

My 50 down 30 up must be upgraded to the new 110 down and 50 up, that my provider just announced. Host pro please.

Rich bytch! I hate you
post #11436 of 11893
I spent some time on the moon last night, what a crazy map. Anyone else give this one a go yesterday?
post #11437 of 11893
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbexperience View Post

On another note, here's another sticky kill from last night:

Nice, bb!
post #11438 of 11893
Quote:
Originally Posted by drudiggs View Post

Nice, bb!

Thanks! That was one of my favorites.
post #11439 of 11893
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbexperience View Post

Thanks! That was one of my favorites.

It's bad enough that you bruised his thigh, but then you had to go and blow him up, too? The nerve!
post #11440 of 11893
I have Comcast (Highest Speed) Internet so I Host 95% of the time = little to no lag.

Killin' Zombies on the Moon is a Blast!!!
post #11441 of 11893
Quote:
Originally Posted by alberto1985 View Post

My 50 down 30 up must be upgraded to the new 110 down and 50 up, that my provider just announced. Host pro please.

Who's your provider? I get 55 down, but only 7-8 up.
post #11442 of 11893
This bears repeating, but sometimes i wonder if treyarch plays there games.

Again team death match needs a party version and non party version.

After giving up on it awhile back for the reason i will state below, a freind asked me to play he does not play much but is decent and likes team death match or hardcore team death match. We get put in a game and its two clans who have 20 some days each partied up and were on the opposing team, me and my freind again were with a bunch of new players with only a few days played. They also didnt have mic's making it very difficult.

Then the opposing guys all used g11, and last stand, again me my freind who does not play much himself were partnered with a bunch of newbs.

Now thats not really an issue, my issue is the bullying. These guys with high kd ratios in clans, team up and just get paired against random newbs, no wonder I have so many freinds who say they wont play because they turn around and get shot. They went through combat training and everything, but said no matter how good they get, they like team death match and would still get destroyed. I insisted since I played against some of them and they were good enough and that something else was at play but i usually played search and destroy (they dont like round based games) so I was unaware at the time . And that issue i found is the matchmaking in hardcore team death match.

IT would be fine if this was random but its not, its constantly happening whenever i play hc team death match, its a party or clan against random new players. The matchmaking system cannot even seem to match parties against each other or get that right.

This is also why k/d does not tell the story, these guys some of them were above 2.00 k/d ratio but i could take them one on one and my k/d is 1.20, i also have no problems playing against people with 2.00 k/d ratio one on one in hc search and destroy and I can often beat them. The issue is they would then last stand me, or they would tell there freind where I am and i would get shot from behind. I had no support from my back because my team was constantly getting shot. Its very easy to dominate and have great k/d ratio when your with great players all the time and playing against people who are new or on a random team. You also have no worries about getting attacked from behind. Some of them even walked around aimed down sight the entire game! Or camped in adjacent corners spraying g11 shots.

Then they celebrate how good they are and complained everyone leaves because they are so good and the other players are cowards. Im thinking to myself No they leave because you are a good team that practices together yet plays against random players, why dont you try playing another clan or party who has the same experience and see how good you are.

Finally another group of 4 really good players joined me and my freind and we beat them by 1500 points in and again in the second round and then they all backed out, probably to pick on more new players.

I just feel so bad for people who dont have all the time in the world to play, and they get thrown in games like that with bullies.
post #11443 of 11893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murilo View Post

This bears repeating, but sometimes i wonder if treyarch plays there games.

Again team death match needs a party version and non party version.

After giving up on it awhile back for the reason i will state below, a freind asked me to play he does not play much but is decent and likes team death match or hardcore team death match. We get put in a game and its two clans who have 20 some days each partied up and were on the opposing team, me and my freind again were with a bunch of new players with only a few days played. They also didnt have mic's making it very difficult.

Then the opposing guys all used g11, and last stand, again me my freind who does not play much himself were partnered with a bunch of newbs.

Now thats not really an issue, my issue is the bullying. These guys with high kd ratios in clans, team up and just get paired against random newbs, no wonder I have so many freinds who say they wont play because they turn around and get shot. They went through combat training and everything, but said no matter how good they get, they like team death match and would still get destroyed. I insisted since I played against some of them and they were good enough and that something else was at play but i usually played search and destroy (they dont like round based games) so I was unaware at the time . And that issue i found is the matchmaking in hardcore team death match.

IT would be fine if this was random but its not, its constantly happening whenever i play hc team death match, its a party or clan against random new players. The matchmaking system cannot even seem to match parties against each other or get that right.

This is also why k/d does not tell the story, these guys some of them were above 2.00 k/d ratio but i could take them one on one and my k/d is 1.20, i also have no problems playing against people with 2.00 k/d ratio one on one in hc search and destroy and I can often beat them. The issue is they would then last stand me, or they would tell there freind where I am and i would get shot from behind. I had no support from my back because my team was constantly getting shot. Its very easy to dominate and have great k/d ratio when your with great players all the time and playing against people who are new or on a random team. You also have no worries about getting attacked from behind. Some of them even walked around aimed down sight the entire game! Or camped in adjacent corners spraying g11 shots.

Then they celebrate how good they are and complained everyone leaves because they are so good and the other players are cowards. Im thinking to myself No they leave because you are a good team that practices together yet plays against random players, why dont you try playing another clan or party who has the same experience and see how good you are.

Finally another group of 4 really good players joined me and my freind and we beat them by 1500 points in and again in the second round and then they all backed out, probably to pick on more new players.

I just feel so bad for people who dont have all the time in the world to play, and they get thrown in games like that with bullies.

They do have a non-party version, It's called mercenary TDM and there is also mercenary moshpit. Of course you can't be in a lobby with any of your friends but that's the point. If you can play with your friends why can't everyone else play with theirs too? it's got to be all or nothing.
post #11444 of 11893
36 down, 6 up with Comcast here. Not sure if I ever host (I never bother to check) but its definitely fast enough to get the job done.
post #11445 of 11893
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucwylde23 View Post


They do have a non-party version, It's called mercenary TDM and there is also mercenary moshpit. Of course you can't be in a lobby with any of your friends but that's the point. If you can play with your friends why can't everyone else play with theirs too? it's got to be all or nothing.

People can party up in mercenary too, it just takes a little more effort, by joining players already in game and staying in. Its rare that there's a party free game in mercenary, but they're usually small. None that really serve the beatdown like we do. It's probably more to do with the lack of a non-DLC moshpit mode than people being dicks.
post #11446 of 11893
I have to respectfully disagree with the core of your argument, Murilo. I don't think party communication in TDM is nearly as important as you claim. I can respect the logic, and in some cases it might hold true to an extent, but by and large, TDM is completely skill based, and being in a party doesn't add much, especially in core mode. For HC mode without ready access to radar, team play and communication is much more pronounced. But in core mode, I get just as much info, actually a lot more info, from spy planes, sounds (gunshots and footsteps), unsilenced red blips on radar, disappearing teammate triangles, etc as I do from our team, and we are a damn good team when we all get together, with great communication when it's needed. But, the amount of information you can get from your radar and game sounds, if you pay proper attention, absolutely dwarfs the info from your team about "there's a guy over there" or whatever. This is not true for other modes, but for TDM, it is by far my experience. I do not play any better in TDM when I'm on a team with good communication, vs the same skilled team without communication. I do hate getting put on a team with noobs and losing when I do really well, but I never blame communication in TDM, because I just don't think it has nearly as much to do with it as you do.

Now, that is all with respect to party communication, as you were arguing was the problem. I disagree with that. I think the problem you ran into is just that you had a lot of good players playing together. I don't disagree that a party full of really good players will absolutely DESTROY noobs. We do this all the time, only it's not our communication that accomplishes it. Most of the time we are talking about something non COD related, or just cracking jokes. The reason a team full of good players is a problem, even without good communication, is because the better players have very good situational awareness as I described above, paying attention to radar, sounds, etc. No one needs to tell me where the enemy is. When a teammate dies, 9 times out of 10 I know right where that teammate was on the map, which direction they were facing, etc, and based on the direction he was facing, my knowledge of the map, and the sounds I heard, I will head straight there and know just where to look for the enemy, what gun the enemy was using, a good estimate on whether or not that enemy is reloading, which enemy it was (was it a good player?), where they might be headed, etc. This is all without any input from teammates. Half the time, even if a teammate says "He's over there", before he can finish, we just say back "he's already dead." And it's not because they told us where the enemy was. Now, in normal games there might be one maybe two players like this on the enemy team. They can be a pain, but don't necessarily dictate the victory. But if you have 6 of them doing this, that's freakin hard to overcome, whether they communicate with each other or not.

So this is all to agree that playing against a team of good players sucks and is hard/impossible/a problem, but I want to clarify that it has very little or nothing to do with them telling each other where you are. At least, in my opinion.

And FWIW, I never play mercenary mode because it is harder IME. All of the good players who want to play solo think they are smart by playing merc mode, but in reality, it's just full of all the smart good players, lol. Because BLOPS allows guests, and the guests can only play in the regular TDM lobby, and because 99.99% of the time the guests are terrible (and so are the hosts), I prefer to play against these noobs, and the other noobs who don't even know what merc mode is. You might run into a group of really good players every once in a while, but that is quite rare IME. I can almost count on one hand the number of teams I've faced where more than 2 of them had a kd above 2, in the couple thousand matches I've played and probably 20 days of play time (or whatever it is). It sucks bad when you do, but it's rare enough that it doesn't really bother me.
post #11447 of 11893
Well said, mang.
post #11448 of 11893
God you guys type alot. I want to join in, but I just cant read these novels you guys are writing. Can someone give me the Cliff notes version of what we are debating about?
post #11449 of 11893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daekwan View Post

God you guys type alot. I want to join in, but I just cant read these novels you guys are writing. Can someone give me the Cliff notes version of what we are debating about?

Murilo claims parties in HC TDM and regular TDM are the reason his teams lose. PJ tells him he sucks and to get on a good team if he wants to win.

post #11450 of 11893
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbexperience View Post

Murilo claims parties in HC TDM and regular TDM are the reason his teams lose. PJ tells him he sucks and to get on a good team if he wants to win.


I'm literally laughing out loud to the point of coughing after reading that

The real cliff notes.... Murilo claims that party communication (teammates telling each other where the enemy is) is the reason that a team of people with 2+ k/d ratios beat them bad in TDM. I'm claiming that even with no communication, a team that good would have whooped them the same... simply because they are good players.

Basically, I'm claiming that communication in TDM is not that important.

Sorry to write a novel, I just start writing, and try to be really thorough to fully support my points, and that's what comes out
post #11451 of 11893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daekwan View Post

God you guys type alot. I want to join in, but I just cant read these novels you guys are writing. Can someone give me the Cliff notes version of what we are debating about?

Haha, between this and the Bad company 2 forum, this is how I feel sometimes:

post #11452 of 11893
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbexperience View Post

Murilo claims parties in HC TDM and regular TDM are the reason his teams lose. PJ tells him he sucks and to get on a good team if he wants to win.


LMAO!!! awesome! I love PJ to death!

So Murilo.. you want to come play with a real team? Ready to stop being a zero and start being a hero?
post #11453 of 11893
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucwylde23 View Post

Haha, between this and the Bad company 2 forum, this is how I feel sometimes:


And of course that image is blocked by our good friends at the EOC. Unless of course you arent using unet.. lucky mf!!
post #11454 of 11893
Quote:
Originally Posted by PJ_Rage View Post

I'm literally laughing out loud to the point of coughing after reading that

The real cliff notes.... Murilo claims that party communication (teammates telling each other where the enemy is) is the reason that a team of people with 2+ k/d ratios beat them bad in TDM. I'm claiming that even with no communication, a team that good would have whooped them the same... simply because they are good players.

Basically, I'm claiming that communication in TDM is not that important.

Sorry to write a novel, I just start writing, and try to be really thorough to fully support my points, and that's what comes out

BB's version is way better. You suck at writing novels, but youre extremely entertaining to play COD with!
post #11455 of 11893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daekwan View Post

And of course that image is blocked by our good friends at the EOC. Unless of course you arent using unet.. lucky mf!!

Private internet FTW! Unfiltered and amazing.
post #11456 of 11893
If I'm the only one online of my friends who wants to play BLOPS, I will be either playing Mercenary TDM and FFA. Useless playing regular TDM with randoms because you get put into rooms with actual parties that will slaughter the randoms 99% of the time. I like being able to just randomize who's on my time. Less raging, more kicking ass.

I decided to give the Skorpion another go (those who know me, know I love the Skorp in CoD4), and this time, I'm in LOVE. What I was doing wrong was using Extended mags (which does make sense, but the rof of the skorpion paired up with it's weak damage at range makes it very, VERY hard to kill anything no matter how good you are). What you NEED to do is forgive the 20 round mag and use Rapid Fire and SoH obviously. The rof increase makes the Skorpion incredibly deadly, and incredibly accurate (as usual). The Skorpion is a laser beam, like the ACR was in MW2 (almost). From close range, make no mistake, the Skorpion destroys in 2 rounds, making it a great anti-shotty weapon.

I've got the Skorpion to be my number 5 most used gun after the FAL, AK47, AUG, and Commando. The M14 and Kiparis are right there too. Now that I got the Skorpion to be on the top list, I'm gonna work on doing the same with the Mac-11 (which is pretty much excatly like the Skorpion in terms of mag and accuracy but with a faster rof and less damage from close range (4 shots to kill from close, but rapid fire makes it stupid deadly).

I still wouldn't recommend using these in team matches as when you face multiple enemies at once, you won't be able to take them all down due to the fast rof and low mag. Been there, done that.

My end game is to have the FAL, M14, Skorpion, Mac 11, Kiparis as my most used guns....

Too many a time I have seen gamers with Famas, AK74u, and Galil on their tops. LAME. I just love to be different.
post #11457 of 11893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven Crimson View Post

If I'm the only one online of my friends who wants to play BLOPS, I will be either playing Mercenary TDM and FFA. Useless playing regular TDM with randoms because you get put into rooms with actual parties that will slaughter the randoms 99% of the time. I like being able to just randomize who's on my time. Less raging, more kicking ass.

I decided to give the Skorpion another go (those who know me, know I love the Skorp in CoD4), and this time, I'm in LOVE. What I was doing wrong was using Extended mags (which does make sense, but the rof of the skorpion paired up with it's weak damage at range makes it very, VERY hard to kill anything no matter how good you are). What you NEED to do is forgive the 20 round mag and use Rapid Fire and SoH obviously. The rof increase makes the Skorpion incredibly deadly, and incredibly accurate (as usual). The Skorpion is a laser beam, like the ACR was in MW2 (almost). From close range, make no mistake, the Skorpion destroys in 2 rounds, making it a great anti-shotty weapon.

I've got the Skorpion to be my number 5 most used gun after the FAL, AK47, AUG, and Commando. The M14 and Kiparis are right there too. Now that I got the Skorpion to be on the top list, I'm gonna work on doing the same with the Mac-11 (which is pretty much excatly like the Skorpion in terms of mag and accuracy but with a faster rof and less damage from close range (4 shots to kill from close, but rapid fire makes it stupid deadly).

I still wouldn't recommend using these in team matches as when you face multiple enemies at once, you won't be able to take them all down due to the fast rof and low mag. Been there, done that.

My end game is to have the FAL, M14, Skorpion, Mac 11, Kiparis as my most used guns....

Too many a time I have seen gamers with Famas, AK74u, and Galil on their tops. LAME. I just love to be different.

Yeah, it's a strange gun, but it's still very good. I only use it with RF as well, since it basically has no effect on it's already dead straight accuracy. It's deadly up close with a 2 hit kill point blank. But while its weak at range, every shot will hit.

SMGs in general are underrated. I remember you guys making comments the other night how we were screwing around using SMGs, like you've never seen someone use a spectre before. I assure you my use of SMGs is non-ironic.

You're just so much more mobile with them, especially while ADS. I just can't play objective games with ARs.
post #11458 of 11893
Pissed I didn't get to play with you guys last night, couldn't get on early and then Conman told me you guys got off.
post #11459 of 11893
I should be on tonight late like 8pm

BTW
Dual Scorpions + Steady aim = death.

Throw in light weight and you have a winner
post #11460 of 11893
Quote:
Originally Posted by rudubb1n View Post

I should be on tonight late like 8pm

BTW
Dual Scorpions + Steady aim = death.

Throw in light weight and you have a winner

I will be on too, not sure what time yet. Probably 9 or so.
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