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Official JTR Orbit Shifter Subwoofer Thread - Page 18

post #511 of 1182
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post

Ding Dong!
Honey, there is something at the door called an Orbit Shifter!?!?!?!?!?
Do you know anything about this?
photo-2.jpg
And so it begins......

Indeed ...

Great post and welcome the small and exclusive club. Someone will be contacting you shortly to discuss a special rider option for your homeowners insurance policy, as well as legal resources for family law and any possible civil actions. Guess it's too late to tell you to lift with your legs ... tongue.gif
post #512 of 1182
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post

Should we remove the plastic? Na'h, it can't be that heavy.
119
Easy does itth_IMG_1230.jpg/VIDEO]
Uh Oh! Here's a tip. Take off the plastic you idiot!
159

Oh man, that doesn't look like fun for the knees... or back. eek.gif Suddenly I'm glad I wasn't able to make it over to help, I am sorry about that though. Looks like you got it down to the room without killing yourselves, good job!

Ha, nothing like doing a front squat from WELL below parallel. biggrin.gif
post #513 of 1182
It fits!

119

Let's see what's under the plastic.

159

Well, it is downstairs but I may have to wait a bit to fire it up. I am planning on doing a lot of work on the HT next week and I will be hiring out quite a bit of the carpentry work.

I will be building a stage for the OS to sit on. Don't want to think about how much sand it will take to make it solid enough for the OS!
post #514 of 1182
Carp,
I actually tweaked my right knee a bit. Have a vacation coming up on a lake in NW Wisconsin and we usually ski quite a bit. Might need to take it easy this year.

That video needs to be rotated 90 degrees and the way it is formatted now makes me look like a frog!

edit- Ha! not much of a video at 1 second long. Guess I messed it up somehow...
post #515 of 1182
Thread Starter 
I found these handy little Isolator's thanks to another forum members post. I put 6 of them on each OS that were originally lying directly on carpet (with pad). They are an interesting polymer material and provide excellent isolation for big subs like these. The OS's are literally floating on these pads and I'm thinking they would be good for Caps also. I was considering 4 Great Gramma' pads but did not want the additional height that they would add to the OS's.

Early results are very promising as the bass is just as detailed and intense but with a bit less tactile shake which with my suspended floor ... is a good thing wink.gif.
post #516 of 1182
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I found these handy little Isolator's thanks to another forum members post. I put 6 of them on each OS that were originally lying directly on carpet (with pad). They are an interesting polymer material and provide excellent isolation for big subs like these. The OS's are literally floating on these pads and I'm thinking they would be good for Caps also. I was considering 4 Great Gramma' pads but did not want the additional height that they would add to the OS's.
Early results are very promising as the bass is just as detailed and intense but with a bit less tactile shake which with my suspended floor ... is a good thing wink.gif.

I was just about to get in touch with you RMK as I thought you were using great grammas. Did you actually use the adhesive or just slide them under w/o peeling off the backing? Not that the OS's are flabby, but without as much floor transference, did it seem to tighten up the bass at all? Mine are both on the floor too.....I have one great gramma in the closet and was considering more or to try some way to decouple them.
post #517 of 1182
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

I was just about to get in touch with you RMK as I thought you were using great grammas. Did you actually use the adhesive or just slide them under w/o peeling off the backing? Not that the OS's are flabby, but without as much floor transference, did it seem to tighten up the bass at all? Mine are both on the floor too.....I have one great gramma in the closet and was considering more or to try some way to decouple them.

I (with the help of a friend) rolled them over and stuck them to the bottom of the OS's and it did seem to "tighten up the bass" for both music and movies. Ran through the Scuba Steve Demo bluray and a couple of concert blurays with very nice results. I did not re-run Audyssey as the subs were in the same location and the only difference was less vibration transmission to the floor from the OS's. Wish I had done this from the get go.

BTW, I have Great Grammas on top of the OS's and the L&RTriple 12's are sitting on them. If I had it to do over, I would use the Isolators instead. They cost less and I think they may provide more effective vibration isolation.
post #518 of 1182
Hi KevinH,

Two Grammas would be OK for OS, I have two Grammas under Tapped Horn TH_1819 (weight 200 lbs) which is the same dimension as Orbit Shifter LFU700
post #519 of 1182
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I (with the help of a friend) rolled them over and stuck them to the bottom of the OS's and it did seem to "tighten up the bass" for both music and movies. Ran through the Scuba Steve Demo bluray and a couple of concert blurays with very nice results. I did not re-run Audyssey as the subs were in the same location and the only difference was less vibration transmission to the floor from the OS's. Wish I had done this from the get go.
BTW, I have Great Grammas on top of the OS's and the L&RTriple 12's are sitting on them. If I had it to do over, I would use the Isolators instead. They cost less and I think they may provide more effective vibration isolation.


RMK, did you actually get the 30 duro, or the 50 or 70 duro, which are meant to handle more weight?
post #520 of 1182
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

RMK, did you actually get the 30 duro, or the 50 or 70 duro, which are meant to handle more weight?

Good catch Kevin, I provided the wrong product link. I got the 50 Duro and I'm using 6 on each OS. The 2.5" 70 duro may have been a better choice based upon the OS's weight and, you would only need 4 of them.cool.gif
post #521 of 1182
Jedimastergrant was kind enough to let me borrow his OS yesterday in my room before our speaker shootout. We had a heck of a time getting the frequency response to get anywhere near flat, we basically had a mountain centered around 30hz and a small null at 60hz.

I dragged down the 30hz null a lot with the SMS-1 which helped, I'd say we were still 5db's or so hot around 30. I fired up some movies and once again was able to re-create the chest/affect the breathing thing. It's hard to describe, but the only time I had experienced it before was with dual OS. The sound quality was not as good as my Submersives but I have no doubt I could dial the OS in to be very similar as far as SQ goes.

We didn't do the delay/distance right on the OS, we were supposed to have a 14 foot greater distance on the OS than the speakers and it was set on only 5 feet (if I'm understanding this correctly Grant, correct me if that's wrong).

Next we played some music and once again I like my Submersives better but not by much!!! In fact, on one song in particular (Audioslave - Shadow of the Sun) I thought the bass sounded better than what I'm used to.

Once again, that is without dialing in the OS correctly other than a quick sms1 eq.

So, that leaves the door open to the possibility of someday going to a false wall and using 1 or probably 2 orbit shifters.

Thanks Grant, I know that was a pain and sorry for the nasty ding we put on it today.
post #522 of 1182
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Jedimastergrant was kind enough to let me borrow his OS yesterday in my room before our speaker shootout. We had a heck of a time getting the frequency response to get anywhere near flat, we basically had a mountain centered around 30hz and a small null at 60hz.
I dragged down the 30hz null a lot with the SMS-1 which helped, I'd say we were still 5db's or so hot around 30. I fired up some movies and once again was able to re-create the chest/affect the breathing thing. It's hard to describe, but the only time I had experienced it before was with dual OS. The sound quality was not as good as my Submersives but I have no doubt I could dial the OS in to be very similar as far as SQ goes.
We didn't do the delay/distance right on the OS, we were supposed to have a 14 foot greater distance on the OS than the speakers and it was set on only 5 feet (if I'm understanding this correctly Grant, correct me if that's wrong).
Next we played some music and once again I like my Submersives better but not by much!!! In fact, on one song in particular (Audioslave - Shadow of the Sun) I thought the bass sounded better than what I'm used to.
Once again, that is without dialing in the OS correctly other than a quick sms1 eq.
So, that leaves the door open to the possibility of someday going to a false wall and using 1 or probably 2 orbit shifters.
Thanks Grant, I know that was a pain and sorry for the nasty ding we put on it today.


This is OS LFU (low frequence, upright) which is some 18,51% volume bigger as OS LF and heavier too. smile.gif
post #523 of 1182
Yeah, it is the LFU and it has extra bracing in 3 areas so I am sure it is much heavier. I don't even know how much but it felt like it could be a little more than 200 lbs.

Like Carp said we did not set it up right and ran out of time because we needed to get the stuff ready for the blind speaker shootout. I am looking forward to finishing my room and seeing what kind of response I get in my room when set up properly. I am currently considering adding a Growler to smooth out room modes.
post #524 of 1182
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post

Yeah, it is the LFU and it has extra bracing in 3 areas so I am sure it is much heavier. I don't even know how much but it felt like it could be a little more than 200 lbs.
Like Carp said we did not set it up right and ran out of time because we needed to get the stuff ready for the blind speaker shootout. I am looking forward to finishing my room and seeing what kind of response I get in my room when set up properly. I am currently considering adding a Growler to smooth out room modes.

Growled will do just fine but if you have the space to add second OSLFU you would need no more quest for subwoofer search like RMK with two OSLF and my DIY TH_1819 is very similar to your OSLFU and I am just building the second one smile.gif
post #525 of 1182
Quote:
Originally Posted by 04FLHRCI View Post

Anybody in the KC area have an OS; I'm thinking of straying from the DIY Sub thread.


Larry

jedimastergrant has one. He lives in south Olathe kansas area.
post #526 of 1182
Xpost from the JTR speaker thread

Initial results with omnimic and minidsp. The raw response with the OS in my room wasn't great so I gave up on corner loading and ended up with it flipped around and almost in the middle of the side wall. That gave a relatively flat response from 30-100Hz. I had big peaks at 29 and 60Hz to cut and a null at 40 that took some boost. Not too concerned about the boost since the OS had the horsepower plus I have it high passed at 27Hz. My twin sealed 15's then pick up with a low pass at 27Hz and play flat to 6Hz where the built in 5Hz filter in the behringer ep4000 cuts in. This gves a nice house curve with neither sub really working all that hard. The OS takes the bulk of the content while the sealed ones take the load under the OS's tuning. I have one sub out on the 4311 y'd into both inputs on the minidsp so that the sub level on the receiver will shift the entire bass curve while I can use the gains on each system to tweak the curve itself. I have the mains crossed over at 80Hz which was the best result. The important part is it sounds fantastic! The bass is hugely powerful but clean and clear at the same time. I think the gain on the OS is at about 1/3 and the sub level at -1 on the 4311 which is 4dB hot. I did all the equalizing prior to running audessey which made almost no changes to the bass region but cleaned up the rest nicely.

Surprisingly there were no phase issues running the two types of subs together. If I messed with the delays in minidsp I could create some terrible cancellation but it was easy to avoid. Now I just need to figure out the null at 180Hz.




post #527 of 1182
That 180 hz null has such a narrow bandwidth that it probably is not that audible. Obviously you would need to slightly adjust the positions of your main speakers to deal with it. Perhaps even a slight adjustment of your seat location may fix it.
post #528 of 1182
Thread Starter 
I dredged up this old graph as I thought it my be helpful as it is the only real raw graph taken in my room of the dual Orbit Shifters. Jeff took this measurement back in 2010 the day we set them up and a day before a GTG at my house. Jeff's used his new calibrated MiC but I am not sure what software nor the settings he used.


It does show a fairly flat response down to <10hz that clearly refutes the contention that these subs will not play infrasonic bass. Add a little EQ to lop off a couple of peaks. Turn the amp gain up and watch the walls pulse. smile.gif
post #529 of 1182
Thread Starter 
I hope Lukeamdman doesn't mind my posting this here but I thought it would be good to revive this thread based upon this quick review by an avid DIY'er. There have been several disparaging comments from the DIY "bubble" about the Orbit Shifters and all of them have been anecdotal or based upon a misinterpretation this one posted graph ^.

I would like Jeff to send an OS to Josh for testing but that is a big deal and not an inexpensive proposition for Jeff. These subs are what they are (profound no tongue.gif) and having heard many alternatives they remain my favorite option. It was good to have someone with quad sealed LMS 5400 powered by uber amps give his honest and unbiased take and I'd like to extend my thanks to Luke for doing so ... cool.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeamdman

RMK was gracious enough to give a demo of his system tonight. I was in the Sacramento area for work and sent him a PM.
There were two things I wanted to hear, and both happen to be JTR products… The Triple12, and the OS. It just so happens, he recently sold the T12s and has bran new Neosis for LCR. Even better!
First off, his theater room is awesome. Aesthetically pleasing, spacious, great acoustics after what he’s done to it, and the AT screen is just beautiful. My theater room, called “the dungeon”, or “the scary room” by my wife, looks even worse now, and that shouldn’t be possible. Thanks a lot, Rob…
Anyway, on to my impressions, and I think Jeff did a fantastic job with the Neosis. I’ve been dabbling in the DIY world, most recently working on building crossovers, and for the 12s in the Neosis to blend in as well and they do with the CD, Jeff is really doing a quality job with that crossover. Just amazing. I don’t want to guess as to how many hours he put into R&D for the crossover for this speaker! Highs were crisp and clean, not harsh, and the mids blended seamlessly and were very detailed. At several points in the demo Rob exceeded +5db in the main volume, and Neosis didn’t even blink. Never sounded strained or distorted ever.
As for the bass, I feel I’ve heard the best of what’s out there, and I wasn’t expecting to being impressed by two 18s, regardless of their configuration. I was definitely wrong! For starters, the obit shifters are HUGE. Pictures don’t paint the whole picture here. Second, having never heard a horn loaded sub before, they do have a “unique” sound to them, and I’m saying that in a completely positive way. Great punch, great detail, and great sub 20hz response and tactile feel. I know for a fact that at certain points in the demo the orbit shifters exceeded 125db, and they did so effortlessly. Considering I have quad LMS 5400s and 16kw worth of power feeding them, I didn’t expect two 18s and half the power to accomplish what they did. I may have to build four “gjallarhorn” enclosures for my 5400s now
Thanks for the demo, Rob!

And, this post in the DIY Section:
Quote:
A trip over to RMK’s place a couple days ago got the wheels turning. Long story short, two JTR Orbit Shifters, which combined is two 18” drivers and 8kw of power, gave my quad 18’s and 16kw of power a run for their money! To be more specific, I feel his setup had greater output above 30hz, and mine had greater output from the mid 20’s on down.

The efficiency of the horn design definitely impressed me, so I started to look around. It didn’t take me long to find the GJALLARGORN on Ricci’s data-bass.com. From his measurements, just one gjallarhorn will outperform all four of my sealed 5400s from 16-40hz-ish, and obviously with far less power.

The plan is two build two of these, and re-use two of the 5400s from one of my sealed cabinets. That means I’ll still have two other sealed 5400s powered by a LG clone, which can help cover the top 60-80hz portion where the gjallarhorn may need some help. The only investment for me is the cost of the wood.

Ricci already emailed me the detailed plans, so all I have to do is find 4x8 sheets of quality Baltic birch and I’ll get started:)

Point of this being that hearing the OS's prompted this fellow to want to build a couple of Horn based subs using two of his super drivers that are currently installed in a sealed cabinet he built. I admire his abilities and understand Luke's priorities. For some of us, just buying something that performs at the level of the OS's is the best course. In any case, this just provides a bit more information for someone looking for a sub like the OS. cool.gif
post #530 of 1182
I don't mind at all.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't watching for the clip lights on the OS...

Just when I thought those 4kw amps would for sure be out of juice, you'd turn them up even more! And guess what, clip lights never blinked, not once.

The next day after I got home I played the Daedmau5 track in that DVD, the "Ghost 'N' stuff" Nero remix, until I saw clip lights on the LG amps. I admit, the orbit shifters had more output, and they were in a larger room than mine.
post #531 of 1182
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post

I don't mind at all.
I'd be lying if I said I wasn't watching for the clip lights on the OS...
Just when I thought those 4kw amps would for sure be out of juice, you'd turn them up even more! And guess what, clip lights never blinked, not once.
The next day after I got home I played the Daedmau5 track in that DVD, the "Ghost 'N' stuff" Nero remix, until I saw clip lights on the LG amps. I admit, the orbit shifters had more output, and they were in a larger room than mine.

Thanks Luke and AFAIR, the only time I saw clip lights on th OS was when Jeff was here and we played the Incredible Hulk "Sonic Canon" scene. That was the craziest bass I have ever heard ... eek.gifsmile.gif

BTW, I played A of F again but this time, took it to 11 ... eek.gif

Very cool and no clipping ... cool.gif
Edited by RMK! - 12/10/12 at 3:37pm
post #532 of 1182
+1 for Jeff

CAPTIVATOR 2400
CAPRIVATOR S1
CAPTIVATOR S2
ORBIT SHIFTER LF
and
ORBIT SHIFTER LFU

now available with 240 volt amplifier for extra +$100 smile.gif
post #533 of 1182
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZivkoF View Post

+1 for Jeff
CAPTIVATOR 2400
CAPRIVATOR S1
CAPTIVATOR S2
ORBIT SHIFTER LF
and
ORBIT SHIFTER LFU
now available with 240 volt amplifier for extra +$100 smile.gif

Watched Rock of Ages last night and during the Bon Jovi "Wanted Dead or Alive" scene the OS LFU is just incredible. Peaks at the lsitening position over 115db and sounds just like a live concert with unreal tactile hit and musicality all at the same time. I guess that makes sense when you basically have a concert style sub in your basement. T12's up front and T8's in rear also keep up very well. Even at these levels no strain whatsoever anywhere is the sound.
post #534 of 1182
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post

Watched Rock of Ages last night and during the Bon Jovi "Wanted Dead or Alive" scene the OS LFU is just incredible. Peaks at the lsitening position over 115db and sounds just like a live concert with unreal tactile hit and musicality all at the same time. I guess that makes sense when you basically have a concert style sub in your basement. T12's up front and T8's in rear also keep up very well. Even at these levels no strain whatsoever anywhere is the sound.

Yeah, there really isn't anything (music included) the OS's do not do well bass wise. It's the form factor that limits their use in Home Theater ...
Edited by RMK! - 12/18/12 at 6:03pm
post #535 of 1182
These OS's arle So awesome. I wish more people could accommodate them in their Theaters. I may try To move my empire and velo 12's upstairs and add another OS in the theater. I think that plus a much larger amp for the new Neosis I have ordered would be awesome. Might need to check The hOmeowners policy abOut structural damage though. Haha
post #536 of 1182
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post

These OS's arle So awesome. I wish more people could accommodate them in their Theaters. I may try To move my empire and velo 12's upstairs and add another OS in the theater. I think that plus a much larger amp for the new Neosis I have ordered would be awesome. Might need to check The hOmeowners policy abOut structural damage though. Haha

When I bought the OS's is was due to Jeff's guarantee that I would never need to upgrade the subs again. Turns out, he was right.smile.gif
post #537 of 1182
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

When I bought the OS's is was due to Jeff's guarantee that I would never need to upgrade the subs again. Turns out, he was right.smile.gif
Rob, I know we talked about running subs on the other thread a ittle but rtefresh my memory. Are you running two OS's off one 20amp dedicated circuit without issue?
post #538 of 1182
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post

Rob, I know we talked about running subs on the other thread a ittle but rtefresh my memory. Are you running two OS's off one 20amp dedicated circuit without issue?

I have run them both off of a single 20amp with no problems but right now they each have their own 20amp circuit.
post #539 of 1182
Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post

These OS's arle So awesome. I wish more people could accommodate them in their Theaters. I may try To move my empire and velo 12's upstairs and add another OS in the theater. I think that plus a much larger amp for the new Neosis I have ordered would be awesome. Might need to check The hOmeowners policy abOut structural damage though. Haha

Hi Ibrown105,

if you add another OS LFU in the theather and if co-located you will gain +6dB and at the lsitening position you will get over 121dB to compare what you have now over 115dB and less peaks and dips and less power consumption from the wall smile.gif, do you have any photos of your OS LFU to show us here smile.gif
post #540 of 1182
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZivkoF View Post

Hi Ibrown105,
if you add another OS LFU in the theather and if co-located you will gain +6dB and at the lsitening position you will get over 121dB to compare what you have now over 115dB and less peaks and dips and less power consumption from the wall smile.gif, do you have any photos of your OS LFU to show us here smile.gif

Thanks Zivkof for the information, I don't have a great pic of it right now but it is the LFU version and you can see it in this shot taken form the main LP which is about 9.5 ft away from the horn opening. If I add another OS I will no co locate for two reasons. One, it would inhibit viewing a tiny bit from the couch that is right next to it because of the added height. The other reason is the placement now is giving a lot of gain between 20-35 hz ((10-15db) and my hope is by locating mid point along the opposite side wall that might even that out a bit So although the calculation says I should only gain 3bd if you factor in how much I currently have to cut the 20-30hz range I could end up with substantial gain if the placement is right.

Curious why will I get less consumption from the wall with two OS's running vs 1?
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