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Official JTR Orbit Shifter Subwoofer Thread - Page 3

post #61 of 1182
Talk about midbass slam!! The Orbit Shifters punch you in the gut and rattle your rib cage, all while delivering incredibly clean, detailed, and powerful LFE. It was simultaneously exhilarating and eerie actually, resulting in a bit of cognitive dissonance - so much output, yet clean as a whistle. I'd seen the Avatar scenes we demoed in two of the best-sounding commercial theaters in the country (SF Metreon IMAX, Arclight Cineramadome in Hollywood) and this was the by far the cleanest sounding and most impactful midbass I've experienced. Very impressive. I think it sets a new bar above 25Hz. Bravo, Jeff! It was also fun watching people flinch physically from the massive impact - literally taken aback (will post photos later). Even during scenes that most of us have seen many times. Hm, perhaps I will have to get one (or two).

Here are Jeff Meier's thoughts: http://twitter.com/HomeCinemaGuru/status/16028530076

The picture thrown by the RS-35 looked absolutely stunning post-calibration on the Seymour AT screen - perfection!

Thanks for putting on the meet, Rob!
post #62 of 1182
RMK! thanks for the review.

I got to hear these subs and they were incredible. If you can accomodate them they are the best I have heard.
post #63 of 1182
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fugueness View Post

Talk about midbass slam!! The Orbit Shifters punch you in the gut and rattle your rib cage, all while delivering incredibly clean, detailed, and powerful LFE. It was simultaneously exhilarating and eerie actually, resulting in a bit of cognitive dissonance - so much output, yet clean as a whistle. I'd seen the Avatar scenes we demoed in two of the best-sounding commercial theaters in the country (SF Metreon IMAX, Arclight Cineramadome in Hollywood) and this was the by far the cleanest sounding and most impactful midbass I've experienced. Very impressive. I think it sets a new bar above 25Hz. Bravo, Jeff! It was also fun watching people flinch physically from the massive impact - literally taken aback (will post photos later). Even during scenes that most of us have seen many times. Hm, perhaps I will have to get one (or two).

Here are Jeff Meier's thoughts: http://twitter.com/HomeCinemaGuru/status/16028530076


The picture thrown by the RS-35 looked absolutely stunning post-calibration on the Seymour AT screen - perfection!

Thanks for putting on the meet, Rob!

Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

RMK! thanks for the review.

I got to hear these subs and they were incredible. If you can accomodate them they are were the best I have heard.

Wow, thanks guys ... high praise indeed coming from you two gents .
.
Jeff P. had been bugging me since his arrival to do an all out run with the Orbit Shifters using the sound canon scene from The Incredible Hulk. I didn't include that in the demo fare so last night we decided to give it a go at full tilt. We got to plus 5 on the Integra and were just tickling the clip lights on the OS amps. The bass waves that were flowing through the room were like nothing I have ever experienced. Literally waves of incredibly intense sound washing over you. It was truly an amazing tactile audio experience. I didn't think to arm myself with an SPL meter but will repeat this test soon and post the numbers.

I think I am going to enjoy these subs for a good long while.
post #64 of 1182
"I think I am going to enjoy these subs for a good long while."

Ha! Ha! Yeah, right!

Thanks for the review and teaser picks. Hopefully more pics of the fun will surface later today.
How does the two Orbit Shifters compare to the 2 Captivators and 2 spuds that you had running at once?

Tom
post #65 of 1182
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Bley View Post

"I think I am going to enjoy these subs for a good long while."

Ha! Ha! Yeah, right!

Thanks for the review and teaser picks. Hopefully more pics of the fun will surface later today.
How does the two Orbit Shifters compare to the 2 Captivators and 2 spuds that you had running at once?

Tom

Your skepticism is well founded .

The Orbit Shifters are really in a whole new (very small) class of commercial subwoofer. The huge excursion of the OS custom 18” driver, 4Kw amp and 14’ horn path make it happen. The Orbit Shifter and the lower playing Terraform XL will get people rethinking what HT bass is and can be.

Perhaps some DYI’ers and have gotten to this level but no commercial subs have tread this ground.
post #66 of 1182
Quote:
Originally Posted by fugueness View Post

Talk about midbass slam!! The Orbit Shifters punch you in the gut and rattle your rib cage, all while delivering incredibly clean, detailed, and powerful LFE. It was simultaneously exhilarating and eerie actually, resulting in a bit of cognitive dissonance - so much output, yet clean as a whistle. I'd seen the Avatar scenes we demoed in two of the best-sounding commercial theaters in the country (SF Metreon IMAX, Arclight Cineramadome in Hollywood) and this was the by far the cleanest sounding and most impactful midbass I've experienced. Very impressive. I think it sets a new bar above 25Hz. Bravo, Jeff! It was also fun watching people flinch physically from the massive impact - literally taken aback (will post photos later). Even during scenes that most of us have seen many times. Hm, perhaps I will have to get one (or two).

Here are Jeff Meier's thoughts: http://twitter.com/HomeCinemaGuru/status/16028530076

The picture thrown by the RS-35 looked absolutely stunning post-calibration on the Seymour AT screen - perfection!

Thanks for putting on the meet, Rob!

Wow that's some elite company to be in! When you say midbass are you talking just the Orbit Shifters or in combination with the Triple 12S? What bandwith are the Orbit Shifters covering?
post #67 of 1182
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

Wow that's some elite company to be in! When you say midbass are you talking just the Orbit Shifters or in combination with the Triple 12S? What bandwith are the Orbit Shifters covering?

I have them crossed @60hz. Audyssey sets the Triple12's to 40Hz. Jeff Meier and Jeff Permanian suggested 60Hz. There is no high pass but I have felt strong 15hz for the first time.

The Terraform XL will best the OS under 25Hz. Above 25Hz, the OS is king.

If someone could ever get them to play nice ... OMG ...
post #68 of 1182
Thx Rob that's great to hear, glad they live up to the hype but I honestly had no doubt comin from JP!
post #69 of 1182
These subs are amazing. Rob has had some awesome sub setups in the past but none compare to what was demonstrated yesterday. Has Jeff posted any photos of the 68 lb. woofer used in the OS? I'd love to see one.

Rob has been on a sub upgrade cycle for what, three years now? The questions is what's next? WOW!
post #70 of 1182
Orbit Shifter's raw response (no eq) at RMK's seat:
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j1...c7/RMKssit.jpg
post #71 of 1182
RMK/Fugueness how does the JTR system compare to the Seaton system?
post #72 of 1182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post

Orbit Shifter's raw response at RMK's seat:
http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j1...c7/RMKssit.jpg

Wow, look at that single-digit response! What sort of output can that do down at 10hz?
post #73 of 1182
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojomike View Post

Wow, look at that single-digit response! What sort of output can that do down at 10hz?

The stated specs are as follows:

Growler Duo~ 122db at 20hz, 106db at 10hz eighth space (corner loaded), 1 meter

Orbit Shifter~ 132db at 20hz, 115db at 10hz eighth space (corner loaded), 1 meter

That looks like pretty meaningful output for both the OS and the new Growler Duo at 10hz. Both the OS and Duo use the same amp and the figures above are based upon the 4,000 watt continuous rating, and not the 7,200 watt peak capability. Rob is rocking two OS' so he will get an additional bump over these levels.
post #74 of 1182
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffinator View Post

These subs are amazing. Rob has had some awesome sub setups in the past but none compare to what was demonstrated yesterday. Has Jeff posted any photos of the 68 lb. woofer used in the OS? I'd love to see one.

Rob has been on a sub upgrade cycle for what, three years now? The questions is what's next? WOW!

So you didn't hear me say that I was done upgrading? ...

Before Jeff left this morning he was running some in-room FR graphs and we decided to take another shot at the Incredible Hulk sound canon scene. I had my Digital SPL meter on fast C with peak hold. It read 127db peak @ LP, 13' from the horn exit. The Integra was at +5 so that's just about all I got.

As we went out the front of the house my neighbor from across the front drive came running up (luckily with a huge grin on his face) saying my god what were you doing? He was in his back yard easily 350' from my HT room and he has a water feature (a stream really) that normally drowns out any ambient sound. He said he felt the LF pulses rushing through his yard! He demanded a demo so this may become the new neighborhood e-ticket ride .

It was loud in the room but not REALLY loud. It was wave after wave of slightly nauseating but very clean sound pressure washing over you as the canon pulsed. It appears I am going to have to be very careful with the Orbit Shifters .

Crazy yes, but really fun stuff.
post #75 of 1182
What was the equipment used to EQ the system?

RMK, you mentioned you are feeling strong 15hz, did the two captivators not have enough output at this frequency?
post #76 of 1182
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisafa View Post

What was the equipment used to EQ the system?

RMK, you mentioned you are feeling strong 15hz, did the two captivators not have enough output at this frequency?


We used the Integra DHC 80.1 Manual EQ as performed by UMR (Jeff Meier) and the Audyssey MultEQ-XT in my Integra. No other EQ was used.

Dual Captivators have less output than dual Orbit Shifters at any frequency. My recollection is the Caps roll off pretty steeply at 17Hz.
post #77 of 1182
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

We used the Integra DHC 80.1 Manual EQ as performed by UMR (Jeff Meier) and the Audyssey MultEQ-XT in my Integra. No other EQ was used.

Curious.... how did they compare? Which did you prefer?

Craig
post #78 of 1182
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Curious.... how did they compare? Which did you prefer?

Craig

The jury is still out. I may have some time as I am off work (in theory) for the next couple of days and I hope to do some comparisons.
post #79 of 1182

Interesting that the center frequencies of the Integra's manual EQ filters, (25 Hz, 40 Hz, 63 Hz and 100 Hz), come very close to hitting some problem points in the raw response. Fortuitous, for sure.

Craig
post #80 of 1182
Interesting "reverse house curve"? I heard people usually preferred higher bass at lower frequency?
In any case, insane "flatness" down to 7Hz... I can only drool....
RMK, you outdid yourself again, in less than a year??
post #81 of 1182
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post


Interesting that the center frequencies of the Integra's manual EQ filters, (25 Hz, 40 Hz, 63 Hz and 100 Hz), come very close to hitting some problem points in the raw response. Fortuitous, for sure.

Craig

Yes that is fortuitous but Jeff Meier (UMR) did not touch the low (<160Hz) frequencies other than to apply a 6db boost at 25Hz for a "house curve" that we later removed. Jeff's (UMR) measurements were based upon all three front seats and I'm sure that is why he left well enough alone. Sort of the audio version of the Hippocratic Oath . The above subs only, raw data measurements were made by Jeff Permanian (too many Jeff's) from the prime seat.

I may apply 3db boosts to 40 and 63 just to see or more correctly hear if I can detect a difference and I may break down and get a measuring setup but to me that is a slippery slope. The blind faith Audyssey approach and or hiring an expert like Jeff Meier is more in-line with my style.
post #82 of 1182
How long is the lenght of the horn in the orbit shifter compared to the growler duo?
post #83 of 1182
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodhisafa View Post

How long is the lenght of the horn in the orbit shifter compared to the growler duo?

The Orbit Shifter is 14', the Growler Duo is 8'


Having some time off I have been able to test the Orbit Shifters with music and movies. No additional measurements have been taken although I have purchased an XTZ Room Analyzer (thanks Craig John/millerwill ) and will be getting an Audyssey Pro Kit to see what I am hearing and get some limited tweaking capability (we just can't leave well enough alone, can we?).

The Orbit Shifter does a kick drum like no other sub I have ever heard. The impact, speed and clarity is stunning. As for the VLF's, I am hearing/feeling content that I have never heard/felt before. The power of these subs is simply awesome. It is so good now I am reluctant to do anything different but as mentioned above tweaking is a compulsion.
post #84 of 1182
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

The Orbit Shifter is 14', the Growler Duo is 8'


Having some time off I have been able to test the Orbit Shifters with music and movies. No additional measurements have been taken although I have purchased an XTZ Room Analyzer (thanks Craig John/millerwill ) and will be getting an Audyssey Pro Kit to see what I am hearing and get some limited tweaking capability (we just can't leave well enough alone, can we?).

The Orbit Shifter does a kick drum like no other sub I have ever heard. The impact, speed and clarity is stunning. As for the VLF's, I am hearing/feeling content that I have never heard/felt before. The power of these subs is simply awesome. It is so good now I am reluctant to do anything different but as mentioned above tweaking is a compulsion.



How is the sound of the Orbit Shifter and Duo Growler for audio versus home theater? Is it better for one over the other?
post #85 of 1182
RMK! congrats!!! They look impressive. Welcome to horn subs!! If I were you I would bring down the upper bass response to the 20 hz level so you will notice the ULF even more without losing that much midbass. I like my infrasonics boosted over my midbass as that levels out the equal loudness curve and everything has the same impact, the chest slam is the same as the pressurization and shake from low frequencies. Try it out, I bet you will like it. Here is what I am talking about.



BTW, what size are the orbit shifters?
post #86 of 1182
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by peterpioli View Post

How is the sound of the Orbit Shifter and Duo Growler for audio versus home theater? Is it better for one over the other?

I haven't heard the Duo so I have no comment there. The OS is very good at both assuming you have the space (@ 45"X30"X22.5" it is kinda BIG ).
post #87 of 1182
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

RMK! congrats!!! They look impressive. Welcome to horn subs!! If I were you I would bring down the upper bass response to the 20 hz level so you will notice the ULF even more without losing that much midbass. I like my infrasonics boosted over my midbass as that levels out the equal loudness curve and everything has the same impact, the chest slam is the same as the pressurization and shake from low frequencies. Try it out, I bet you will like it. Here is what I am talking about.

BTW, what size are the orbit shifters?

See above as to size.

Thanks MK but I am a TH veteran. I had dual Danley TH-SPUDS up unitl two weeks ago (I think I was the original spudnik ). Good advice re the EQ but the graph you saw was a raw data graph. I'm pretty sure Audyssey has already lopped off those peaks but I will be getting a XTZ Room Analyzer soon and that will tell the tale.

It sounds better with every listening session.
post #88 of 1182
Any photos of the event showing people's reaction to being gut kicked?

RMK - is your room sound proofed from the rest of the house?
post #89 of 1182
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

See above as to size.

Thanks MK, good advice but the graph you saw was a raw data graph. I'm pretty sure Audyssey has already lopped off those peaks but I will be getting a XTZ Room Analyzer soon and that will tell the tale.

It sounds better with every listening session.

Thanks RMK for size, I would like to know real weight I have some stairs to climb up and DTS-10 is too heavy, OS might to be almost 1/2 of its weight! I would cross it much higher up to 100 Hz or 120 Hz, you are loseing great OS punch potential in 60 Hz - 100/120 Hz range.
post #90 of 1182
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZivkoF View Post

Thanks RMK for size, I would like to know real weight I have some stairs to climb up and DTS-10 is too heavy, OS might to be almost 1/2 of its weight! I would cross it much higher up to 100 Hz or 120 Hz, you are loseing great OS punch potential in 60 Hz - 100/120 Hz range.

The Growler Duo is listed at 120lbs
The Orbit Shifter is listed at 160lbs

As for the crossover, RMK is using the JTR Triple 12HT's up front for his L/C/R. I can attest to the fact that the Triple 12's can definitely cover the 60hz to 120hz range with plenty of punch. It would, however, be interesting to hear from RMK if he had played with the crossover levels and where he ended up.

For the LFE channel, I would assume that RMK is running his OS' all the way up to 120hz, or whatever the 0.1 channel specification is.
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