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AVR Sound Comparison - Page 6

post #151 of 168
Max, you really should ask this question @ the ML Club forum http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/ since that's where all the owners hang out.

I did a quick search yesterday and found a couple of guys running Encores with Onkyo 807's and a guy using an old Sony AVR. Probably a lot more to be found and certainly plenty of good advice for the asking.

Been an ML owner for 21 years and loved every minute.

/Ken
post #152 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom52 View Post

Emotiva UPA5 $575 shipped. Onkyo 707 under $500(refurbed at accessories4less. Also check the the prices for the Yamaha 665/765 and the Onkyo 707 on Saturday at Newegg for their sales. If those are the speakers you want to keep, do it. Yes I also feel you should have spent more for your speakers and then gone from there. But sometimes it just doesn't work out that way. That's why I say keep your speakers if you love 'em and go from there. It may cost you more than you want to spend for the AVR and amp but it would be senseless in my opinion to buy something that won't power those speakers properly. So take your medicine and accept it. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

I agree but it seems that he didn't buy those speakers because he loves them. He bought them because he got them cheap and thought they were a great deal. When he hooked one up, it sounded better than the one it replaced but it is likely that any new speaker may have.
post #153 of 168
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RUR View Post

Max, you really should ask this question @ the ML Club forum http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/ since that's where all the owners hang out.

I did a quick search yesterday and found a couple of guys running Encores with Onkyo 807's and a guy using an old Sony AVR. Probably a lot more to be found and certainly plenty of good advice for the asking.

Been an ML owner for 21 years and loved every minute.

/Ken

Thanks... I joined that forum, but for some reason it will not let me post
post #154 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxjean View Post

Thanks... I joined that forum, but for some reason it will not let me post

As maxjean? Let me know and I'll PM a mod to fix you up.
post #155 of 168
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lhasa-lover View Post

I agree but it seems that he didn't buy those speakers because he loves them. He bought them because he got them cheap and thought they were a great deal. When he hooked one up, it sounded better than the one it replaced but it is likely that any new speaker may have.

You are correct on both counts... I will have to go dig out some speaker wire tonight and connect the other two (currently have giant monster plugs on my KM-6s), I will connect the L/R (Encores) this evening or tomorrow night (hope my Yamaha doesn't explode). I know it will be lacking, as there will be no sub (KM-6 provides decent bass), but I will get an idea of sound.
post #156 of 168
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RUR View Post

As maxjean? Let me know and I'll PM a mod to fix you up.

Yes, I believe so - thanks... I think the problem is I never received the confirmation email to completely establish the account. Although I can log-in and my name appears, but can't post.
post #157 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lhasa-lover View Post

I agree but it seems that he didn't buy those speakers because he loves them. He bought them because he got them cheap and thought they were a great deal. When he hooked one up, it sounded better than the one it replaced but it is likely that any new speaker may have.

Thank you for agreeing. Now the problem that also arises is finding speakers in his price range that will meet his requirements of cost, wall mounting(needed) and sound as good to boot. Good sounding wall mount speakers are not the easiest to find in his price range. The ones we prefer and are used to listening to are out of his price point. I haven't looked for a good set of wall mounted speakers in a while but the ones I have seen that I would have are expensive. I'm sure there are some out there I just haven't looked. Are there some you can think of? If so it may help OP a lot. I would suppose a venture over into the speaker threads may be called for.
post #158 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom52 View Post

I would suppose a venture over into the speaker threads may be called for.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...e#post18592415
post #159 of 168

Read that and agree. That's why I suggested the other equipment for those speakers. Also upon further research I happened to see that Axiom has some very nice wall mount speakers in different price ranges that will also fit the OP's budget. He may want to go to their site and check them out, just for gee gollies sake if nothing else.
post #160 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom52 View Post

Read that and agree. That's why I suggested the other equipment for those speakers. Also upon further research I happened to see that Axiom has some very nice wall mount speakers in different price ranges that will also fit the OP's budget. He may want to go to their site and check them out, just for gee gollies sake if nothing else.

Any decent bookshelf speaker, as long as it's front ported, could easily be wall mounted. I used to own Axiom and they are actually great speakers for the money. I'd reccomend them. Many people here love Infinity Primus (although I don't) but there is a huge thread and they are well respected. They are wall mountable an front ported and would be right in the OP's budget. There are so many out there and that's the point. He really needs to set the budget and start over. Although I love seperates and seperate power amps, it just doesn't make a lot of sense to me for somebody to invest 2/3rds of their total budget on electrontics just so they can drive $200 a pair speakers. But that's just me.
post #161 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom52 View Post

Emotiva UPA5 $575 shipped. Onkyo 707 under $500(refurbed at accessories4less. Also check the the prices for the Yamaha 665/765 and the Onkyo 707 on Saturday at Newegg for their sales. If those are the speakers you want to keep, do it. Yes I also feel you should have spent more for your speakers and then gone from there. But sometimes it just doesn't work out that way. That's why I say keep your speakers if you love 'em and go from there. It may cost you more than you want to spend for the AVR and amp but it would be senseless in my opinion to buy something that won't power those speakers properly. So take your medicine and accept it. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.


Maxjean, your speakers are being sold at amazon(martin logan Encore TF) for 200 a pop. A reviewer there has them paired with an Emotiva UPA amp and is quite happy. Picking up a couple more would round out your system for cheap.

Anyway, to the above quote, I'd add these options. I don't know much about the models other than they all have pre-outs to run an amp.

Marantz 5004 at Buy.com for 669. Pioneer VSX 1120 at amazon.com for 749. Yamaha RXV 765 at amazon for 599. Onkyo 707 at amazon for 600.

I'd recommend the emotiva UPA-5 since it's cheaper than the XPA-3 and also you really don't need the power of 300 watts at 4 ohms. For a sub, can anyone comment on the HSU VTF-1? I'd say you'd get good bang for buck with HSU.
post #162 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxjean View Post

Why didn't I say that??? Thanks...

Are you guys putting down the Encores based on an assumption?

Nope, I stand behind my opinion above.

To maximize performance you need these following two points have great importance.

1. Speakers that have great off axis response.
2. Speakers that can handle the peaks involved (+20dB), this depends on your listening distance and max SPL needs.

You just have to know the limits of any product you choose!

ML is known to not concern themselves with low dips on the impedance curves. This means better amps are required for optimal performance, I can not find the curve for the Encore to confirm this though.

You should know any AVR can drive low impedance speakers but when pushed to higher SPLs the power will be choked since the Amp can not handle the lower resistance loads.

You also know that going to the ML forum isnt going to give you anything more then a bunch of ML fans that think their speakers rock. IF you are looking for a support group then its fine but if you are looking for objective opinion then its not the sort of forum for that (like any other product owners forum).

All that being said, Im not really saying get different speakers. Im just providing you information. You can still decide that the speakers fit your needs and you will be just aware of any compromises.
post #163 of 168
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Nope, I stand behind my opinion above.

To maximize performance you need these following two points have great importance.

1. Speakers that have great off axis response.
2. Speakers that can handle the peaks involved (+20dB), this depends on your listening distance and max SPL needs.

You just have to know the limits of any product you choose!

ML is known to not concern themselves with low dips on the impedance curves. This means better amps are required for optimal performance, I can not find the curve for the Encore to confirm this though.

You should know any AVR can drive low impedance speakers but when pushed to higher SPLs the power will be choked since the Amp can not handle the lower resistance loads.

You also know that going to the ML forum isnt going to give you anything more then a bunch of ML fans that think their speakers rock. IF you are looking for a support group then its fine but if you are looking for objective opinion then its not the sort of forum for that (like any other product owners forum).

All that being said, Im not really saying get different speakers. Im just providing you information. You can still decide that the speakers fit your needs and you will be just aware of any compromises.

Appreciated...

I am seeking the ML forum to find others who have Encores and identify how/what is driving them...the 4ohms issue/concern. Not a support group - but that will be a nice warm feeling.
post #164 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxjean View Post

Appreciated...

I am seeking the ML forum to find others who have Encores and identify how/what is driving them...the 4ohms issue/concern. Not a support group - but that will be a nice warm feeling.

Hey Maxjean, I keep forgetting, I have an old Yamaha HT receiver. Model RX-V2095 and it actually supports 4ohm speakers. It's about 12 years old so I don't know enough about the newer stuff, but it's heavy, built like a tank, has preouts, multi-channel inputs, supports 4ohm speakers and still runs like a top, albeit, in my bedroom now. But my experience with Yamaha was that they were quite honest in their power statements. But as I said, things may have changed in the 12 years since I bought it. I'll also say that in blind tests which were level matched utilizing ABX neither I nor anybody I know was able to pick it out of a lineup that included NAD, Denon, and a few others that slip my mind as this was a few years ago.
post #165 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxjean View Post

Appreciated...

I am seeking the ML forum to find others who have Encores and identify how/what is driving them...the 4ohms issue/concern. Not a support group - but that will be a nice warm feeling.

Hehe

Support groups can be a great thing
post #166 of 168
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lhasa-lover View Post

Hey Maxjean, I keep forgetting, I have an old Yamaha HT receiver. Model RX-V2095 and it actually supports 4ohm speakers. It's about 12 years old so I don't know enough about the newer stuff, but it's heavy, built like a tank, has preouts, multi-channel inputs, supports 4ohm speakers and still runs like a top, albeit, in my bedroom now. But my experience with Yamaha was that they were quite honest in their power statements. But as I said, things may have changed in the 12 years since I bought it. I'll also say that in blind tests which were level matched utilizing ABX neither I nor anybody I know was able to pick it out of a lineup that included NAD, Denon, and a few others that slip my mind as this was a few years ago.

The RX-V2095 was their "high-end" model - check the specs on what I have (Yamaha RX-V590) from 13/14 years ago running my KM-6s.
post #167 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxjean View Post

Appreciated...

I am seeking the ML forum to find others who have Encores and identify how/what is driving them...the 4ohms issue/concern. Not a support group - but that will be a nice warm feeling.


I poked around some "consumer" retailer websites and the Encore's appear to be quite well reviewed by people who've actually purchased them. They're efficient enough at 92dB with a nominal 4 ohm rating and don't include esl panels, so their impedence curve won't be as demanding as, oh say, a pair of Monoliths.

Some esl designs really are bears on an amp, but they've generally improved over the years, and there are a number of models you can drive without gobs of power stable into 1ohm. I really don't think you'll have a problem finding something within your budget to power the Encore's.
post #168 of 168
Thread Starter 
Ok folks, just an update to my situation (in case you care)...

This week I found an insane deal on Craigslist, which prompted a change in plans.

I bought:

- Onkyo TX-SR503
- Klipsch Synergy Series Speakers
--KSF 10.5
--KSF-C5
--KSF-S5 (white)
--SW-12 sub
(all for $2xx - insane)
Note: these are older, but they were only used for "movie night" which didn't happen that often, and the retirees are moving - every piece looks/sounds brand new.

So, I decided to return two of the ML Encore TF Speakers, and I will keep one for my center. We are not going to mount the TV in the "new" location. As a result, I will have the following system (until I upgrade the receiver probably around Christmas - best deals...):

AVR - Onkyo TX-SR503
L/R - Klipsch KM-6
C - Martin Logan Encore TF
Surround - Klipsch KSF 10.5
Sub - Klipsch SW-12

I will sell the Klipsch KSF-C5 and S5s.

Thank you to everyone who has provided their knowledge and input.

Side Note: The guy I bought the stuff from was an Audiophile (for music - Stereophile?). He let me hear his main system, which consisted of (sorry forgot the actual names) pre-amps (dirty & clean???), made by a British company, an amp that looked like house radiator, it was giant and he said it got really hot, and a super-duper CD player that was about the size of two receivers, - and it was a single CD player, and a turntable that looked like a large suitcase; no tuner. He had two speakers - DeVore Silverbacks. The sound was incredible to say the least...
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