The Official Panasonic HDC-HS/SD/TM700 Owners thread - Page 2

Pete, I'm on the road now, but I can't recall the exact video card I'm using, but I think it's a Gforce and I don't think it's a real high end card. OS is Win7, 64 bit.

My computer is a stock I7, no special drivers or codecs (unless Edius installed them) and no overclocking. I haven't tried WMC, only WMP.

When I'm back from my trip I'll try WMC and let you know how it plays and the video card I have.

I agree, but Ungermann doesn't

it just shows you how hard it is to design a feature that everyone loves.

LOL I think Panasonic got most things right with the TM/SD unit (would never get the HS unit). But it's entertaining at times to see the Sony fellows (try) poking holes in the product.

One thing which I don't understand is having to remove the battery to plug the DC cord in - I just hate that: my old PV-GS250 and I think all the PV GSxxx line had this as well. I don't like having to open the LCD to plug in USB either.

One little snippet of information from CamcorderInfo user comments that has me kind of alarmed is when recording to SD-HC cards files, when files reach 4GB a new file is started, and a user has indicated he observed audio gaps and missing frames between consecutive 4GB files. I have not tested this but sure hope that this isn't true

I have recorded a concert with the GH1 in which the first take was over 4 gigs. It happened in the middle of a song and putting both clips together in Premiere, I noticed no issue at all. I don't think the TM700 should be different. Maybe the person's card wasn't fast enough.

Ok. So how do you get to that "Play All" on WMC, or is that just on W7 and not on Vista?

When you say "Keep all of your files in (sub) folders" you mean as they are automatically created?

adeflore, Media Player Classic-HC? I'll down load it and try it.

Seems to me I'll have to over-clock my Core 2 Quad 2.33 Ghz. Thoughts?

I hadn't thought of the flash card. Maybe a defective flash card or else using a marginal class 4 or lower caused the problem. When buying SD-HC flash, I picked up class 6 for a little extra margin.

Freddy, I think the same thing happened with either Sony or Canon AVCHD camcorders. The files could be stitched together with the bundled software from the camera that had that issue, but I think the stitching was quirky at times.

I'm not sure if the same is true with the Panny, but this may be something inherent in recording to SD-HC cards as I'm not sure why one brand would have the issue and not another. Maybe someone has more info on this?

I guess it must be Win7 only, because it's totally obvious in Win 7. I'm just suggesting that if you copy all the files you want to play together into a single folder, e.g. your Yosemite trip in one folder, your NYC trip in another, then you could just use the "Play All" for that particular folder, and problem solved. See the attached screen shot.

As for performance, for the 1080i playback, I'm able to play 1080i (HA) smoothly with less than 50% cycles on a Core 2 Duo 3.33Ghz, so I would imagine it should also work fine with a Quad Core 2.33 Ghz. However, I'm not sure how dependent it is upon the graphics card, and your built in integrated G45 is very weak compared to a discrete card. Having said that, if that's your only problem, a discrete card shouldn't cost too much. (unless you're talking about a laptop)

You got something evil happening on that system, for sure.

I have two PCs here, the Q9550 desktop (2.83GHz Quad Core2, nVidia 8800GT GPU, dual 1920x1200p monitors) and the 2.4GHz Core2Duo laptop(nVidia 8600M GPU, 1680x1050 display). Both run 64-bit Windows 7. And both play 1080/60p freakishly well with Windows Media Player and the stock Microsoft AVC CODEC (which is totally new for Windows 7).

Prior the Windows 7 upgrade last fall, I had the best available accelerated players and saw the laptop (Vista) struggle at 100% with slight stuttering, the desktop (XP) cycle around 60% with smooth playback if I got the right player. And this was on Sanyo 1080p, which is slightly lower bitrate than TM700 1080p... may not be much of a concern, but that's the story (and why I was playing with this last September, before the TM700 came out).

On the desktop, I see beautiful, full, smooth as silk playback at 12% CPU. 12%! On the laptop, it's very good as well... maybe suffering a little from the screen resizing, but smooth... at 25-35% CPU.

The reason is the Windows 7 AVC CODEC. They're using DXVA 2.0, which takes very reasonable advantage of a good GPU, as long as you have the right driver support. If you don't see this in Windows 7, check your drivers, check your GPU, and use one of those DX priority tools to ensure that the Windows AVC CODEC is the default.

I'll be the first to admit I'm mystified when Microsoft actually does something totally good, but this seems to be just such a case. I'm certain they're making AVC good for other nefarious reasons, but at least for video preview, they've done Win7 users a solid here.

This is a longstanding Panasonic thing.. even my HMC40 has it.

There are two wins for them here. For one, they don't need battery charging circuity in the camera ... they can put that elsewhere (like, in the charger). That's not a huge deal, but it does simplify the camera's power supply design.

Second thing.. with an on-board charger, you kind of have to ensure that the wall wart is powerful enough to charge the battery and power the camera at the same time. Technically, the battery could only change when the camera's off, but that will invariable lead to angry customers, who accidently leave the camera on, and find a dead cell when they're back to fetch the charged camera.

On the plus side, you do get a stand-alone charger with every Panasonic. This is an add-on to most other camcorders.


The most critical ports to have away from the LCD are those you're going to use while shooting video. On a small camera, there's only so much space. Mic and headphones have to come first. With a larger camera body, there's plenty of space for ports, no excuse for things being behind the LCD.


It's not, but it can seem that way.

Panasonic seems to treat the video stream as one thing, and the file writing as something else. So basically, think of video going on forever as just getting blindly stuffed into 4GB buckets.

Each bucket is precisely 4GB in size... but that's a sure-fire way to tell they're not breaking a the file on I-Frame or even necessarily MPEG-2 TS packet boundaries. When you pick up an arbitrary "bucket" in the middle, it may have "garbage" at the front or back.. the left overs from the packet or frame or whatever the preceeded that bucket. So it looks like things are being dropped.

So, basically, you need to catenate all of your clips from the same continuous shoot together. At the Windows shell, you can navigate to the stream folder, type "copy /b *.mts D:\\video\\whole_schmeggie.mts", and you have the whole stream, no breaks. In UNIX or cygwin shell, do "cp *.mts >whole_schmeggie.mts".

I figured, but I can't seem to sort out what it is.

When I play the m2ts files in WMP it only shows 0.78% cpu usage. It's not even trying. The video is normal for a few seconds then stutters and speeds up to catch up with the audio, then normal for a few more and so on.

HDwriter shows 17% cpu usage and plays the video perfectly but is super slow when advancing one frame at a time.

I'll just give a few specs and see if you folks can see anything weird here.

Details of WMP codecs are shown in the attached jpg.

nVidia GeForce GTX260, driver 8.17.11.9745 (latest)
Windows7 x64 with all the latest updates
WMP12 Version 12.0.7600.16415

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Pete

For those of you that DON'T have a super CPU, I have a solution:

This plays the full RAW mts files no problem on my e6850 with 9800gt vista pc

Download KM Player
and go to options--> preferences --> video processing--->renderer---> renderer drop down box ---> Madshi's Video Renderer

Background

I tried:
-every single codec and player combination: media player classic, wmp, mpc hc, vlc, splash lite, others... (including km player with other codecs)
-this is the only combination I was able to play and play in FULL quality. Actually I can play the full raw mts files with LESS cpu usage than the converted avi from neoscene.

If this combination doesn't work, yes, you need to upgrade.

hi Rico

how do i down convert in camera, sorry if its a dumb question i cant figure it out.

Look in page 107 of the manual under section 2.

"Now, I'm just waiting for some great editing software for the 1080/60P files."

This still seems to be the $64,000 question. I've been storing 60p on that gigantic hard drive, but want to edit it. Still no known solutions?

Does Edius do this, are their codexs or whatever for CS3 Premier Pro? I gather you need Nero 10 to burn anything to a DVD?

I have a Gateway AMD Phenom X4 9750 quad-core processor and an TI Radeon HD 4650 1024MB with 8 gigs of DDR2, runnig under Windows 7 64 bit

Sorry, but if Canon and Sony can place DC access ports beside the battery and not behind the battery on their newest/current models (Vixia HF S21, Vixia S10, CX500, CX550), I believe Panasonic could have done so too.

Canon and Sony have to fight putting circuitry into a small chassis as well.
Canon goes one feature better by placing the USB/HDMI port on the bottom right side but the hand strap.

That is a good idea about concatenating multiple 4GB files with the binary append switch of "copy /b".

That said, I am an owner of the TM700 and am very happy with it - picture quality being of the highest I've ever owned in a camcorder and being the most important feature I wanted. That said, the TM700 isn't perfect either in features I thought were not worth rejecting it for - like the DC/USB/HDMI port access.

Tried it on my dual core and it was weird. It played the clips in slow motion and altered the color (desaturated & changed the hue a bit).

But I don't think anything will help a dual core.

Yes, Edius will do it and do it in real-time. On my I7 I can do multiple layers of 1080p and still do it in real-time. The only problem thus far is that you need to output the project in something other than 1080p. You can do 1080i or lower frame rates in progressive.

The rumor is that the Edius 6.0 may output the project in 1080p 60.

Still stumped as to why my machine won't play the TM700 clips smoothly in WMP12 at 1080/60p. I've searched high and low on the web and I'm not finding any links to a problem at all.

Anyone have an suggestions as to where to go to try to get more answers?

Cheers,
Pete

I get the same experience - could you indicate how you get the list of your codec's in use by WMC? And then, hopefully the guy who has it working smoothly can do the same and we'll identify the missing codec.

I was just going over my downloaded videos trying to figure out why my laptop plays the clips much better than some people who have far more powerful computers.

Anyway, I noticed that when I play the clips in Windows Media Player, the DivX logo will occasionally pop up in the lower right hand side.

Download DivX and then play your videos in Windows Media Player and tell us if your playback gets much better.
http://www.divx.com/en/win

Their must be a good explanation for these difference in playback quality. We do know that with the PS3, the people who were having problems had the video enhancements enabled and once they disabled it, the playback ends up being normal.

Open WMP, then Help, then About WMP. There is a link down on the lower left side that says something to the effect of "Trouble shooting details". Click on that. I'm at home and my i7 machine is at my shop so I can't see the exact link, but it's something to that effect. It will pop up a web page in IE with all your WMP enviroment variables.

It would be interesting to note if it really was the wmp avc codec doing it for people or if it is another third party codec that just so happens to be used by WMP that is giving the smooth playback.

I might just try the Divx codec and see what happens. Thanks for that link Paulo!

Cheers,
Pete

I've saw that for a while now but I never bothered to post it. Years ago, I used to tell everybody who had trouble with playing back HDV files to download DivX since I noticed that HDV files on my computer played back 100% smooth whereas for some people with similarly spec'd computers or higher, were having issues.

Hopefully this will resolve some problems.

I wonder if it drops the resolution and therefore plays back more smoothly?

Installed the DivX codec and player but, it has no effect when playing in WMP12.

When I tried to play a m2ts file in the DivX player it said "Unsupported Format" - "This Video is an unsupported Format and cannot be played without installing additional DirectShow Filters"

More searching has turned up nothing so far. Any further suggestions would be appreciated.

Off to see if I can reinstall DirectShow, EVR and DXVA 2.0 in Windows7. Maybe one of those files is corrupted somehow.

Cheers,
Pete

Just found this while looking for PC upgrade parts...

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ce327cf564cd08

What are your thoughts?


Rick

Looks like it might work. It supports the proper file formats and 1080p, so I'm not sure why it wouldn't work.

Thanks for the steps, my driver list looks just like yours, and although I tested DivX it made no difference, so I uninstalled it (hence it's not in the driver list)



Windows Media Player
Version 12.0.7600.16415
Operating System
Version: 6.1.7600 System Locale: en-US
Service Pack: 0.0 User Locale: en-US
Build Lab: 7600.win7_gdr.100226-1909 Geo ID: United States
Type: Workstation DRM Version:
Architecture: x86 Indiv Version:
Processors: 4

Media Player Binaries
Name Version Name Version Name Version
wmp.dll 12.0.7600.16415 wmlaunch.exe 12.0.7600.16385 wmpconfig.exe 12.0.7600.16385
wmplayer.exe 12.0.7600.16415 wmpcm.dll 12.0.7600.16385 wmvcore.dll 12.0.7600.16385
wmploc.dll 12.0.7600.16415 mpvis.dll 12.0.7600.16385 mf.dll 12.0.7600.16385
wmpps.dll 12.0.7600.16385 wmpdxm.dll 12.0.7600.16385
wmpeffects.dll 12.0.7600.16385 wmpshell.dll 12.0.7600.16385

Other Binaries
Name Version Name Version Name Version
psapi.dll 6.1.7600.16385 FirewallAPI.dll 6.1.7600.16385 CFGMGR32.dll 6.1.7600.16385
drmv2clt.dll 11.0.7600.16385 PortableDeviceApi.dll 6.1.7600.16385 SETUPAPI.dll 6.1.7600.16385
msnetobj.dll 11.0.7600.16385 PortableDeviceTypes.dll 6.1.7600.16385 profapi.dll 6.1.7600.16385
wkscli.dll 6.1.7600.16385 wpdsp.dll 6.1.7600.16385 MSIMG32.dll 6.1.7600.16385
sbe.dll 6.6.7600.16385 cewmdm.dll 12.0.7600.16385 WindowsCodecs.dll 6.1.7600.16385
srvcli.dll 6.1.7600.16385 webio.dll 6.1.7600.16385 SXS.DLL 6.1.7600.16385
cscapi.dll 6.1.7600.16385 WINHTTP.dll 6.1.7600.16385 RpcRtRemote.dll 6.1.7600.16385
netutils.dll 6.1.7600.16385 upnp.dll 6.1.7600.16385 rsaenh.dll 6.1.7600.16385
DAVHLPR.dll 6.1.7600.16385 mswsock.dll 6.1.7600.16385 CRYPTSP.dll 6.1.7600.16385
davclnt.dll 6.1.7600.16385 WINNSI.DLL 6.1.7600.16385 VERSION.dll 6.1.7600.16385
ntlanman.dll 6.1.7600.16385 iphlpapi.DLL 6.1.7600.16385 jscript.dll 5.8.7600.16475
drprov.dll 6.1.7600.16385 dnsapi.DLL 6.1.7600.16385 CLBCatQ.DLL 2001.12.8530.16385
MPR.dll 6.1.7600.16385 mswmdm.dll 12.0.7600.16385 COMCTL32.dll 6.10.7600.16385
NetworkExplorer.dll 6.1.7600.16385 pcwum.DLL 6.1.7600.16385 dwmapi.dll 6.1.7600.16385
apphelp.dll 6.1.7600.16385 WINTRUST.dll 6.1.7600.16493 OLEAUT32.dll 6.1.7600.16385
LINKINFO.dll 6.1.7600.16385 imapi2.dll 6.1.7600.16385 ole32.dll 6.1.7600.16385
XmlLite.dll 1.3.1000.0 slc.dll 6.1.7600.16385 gdiplus.dll 6.1.7600.16385
MSOXMLMF.DLL 11.0.8164.0 iertutil.dll 8.0.7600.16385 SHLWAPI.dll 6.1.7600.16385
fwpuclnt.dll 6.1.7600.16385 MSASN1.dll 6.1.7600.16415 SHELL32.dll 6.1.7600.16532
pnrpnsp.dll 6.1.7600.16385 CRYPT32.dll 6.1.7600.16385 uxtheme.dll 6.1.7600.16385
napinsp.dll 6.1.7600.16385 urlmon.dll 8.0.7600.16535 MSCTF.dll 6.1.7600.16385
winrnr.dll 6.1.7600.16385 Normaliz.dll 6.1.7600.16385 IMM32.DLL 6.1.7600.16385
rasadhlp.dll 6.1.7600.16385 WININET.dll 8.0.7600.16535 NSI.dll 6.1.7600.16385
sensapi.dll 6.1.7600.16385 WINSTA.dll 6.1.7600.16385 WS2_32.dll 6.1.7600.16385
rtutils.dll 6.1.7600.16385 WTSAPI32.dll 6.1.7600.16385 USP10.dll 1.626.7600.16385
rasman.dll 6.1.7600.16385 WINMM.dll 6.1.7600.16385 LPK.dll 6.1.7600.16385
RASAPI32.dll 6.1.7600.16385 SSDPAPI.dll 6.1.7600.16385 GDI32.dll 6.1.7600.16385
wmpnssci.dll 12.0.7600.16385 upnphost.dll 6.1.7600.16385 USER32.dll 6.1.7600.16385
msxml3.dll 8.110.7600.16385 npmproxy.dll 6.1.7600.16385 CRYPTBASE.dll 6.1.7600.16385
credssp.dll 6.1.7600.16385 nlaapi.dll 6.1.7600.16385 SspiCli.dll 6.1.7600.16484
AUTHZ.dll 6.1.7600.16385 netprofm.dll 6.1.7600.16385 RPCRT4.dll 6.1.7600.16385
USERENV.dll 6.1.7600.16385 AUDIOSES.DLL 6.1.7600.16385 sechost.dll 6.1.7600.16385
peerdist.dll 6.1.7600.16385 AVRT.dll 6.1.7600.16385 msvcrt.dll 7.0.7600.16385
wship6.dll 6.1.7600.16385 MFPlat.DLL 12.0.7600.16385 ADVAPI32.dll 6.1.7600.16385
wshtcpip.dll 6.1.7600.16385 MMDevApi.dll 6.1.7600.16385 KERNELBASE.dll 6.1.7600.16385
DUI70.dll 6.1.7600.16385 WLDAP32.dll 6.1.7600.16385 kernel32.dll 6.1.7600.16385
DUser.dll 6.1.7600.16385 ntmarta.dll 6.1.7600.16385 ntdll.dll 6.1.7600.16385
explorerframe.dll 6.1.7600.16385 propsys.dll 7.0.7600.16385
wmdmps.dll 12.0.7600.16385 DEVOBJ.dll 6.1.7600.16385

Audio Codecs
Type Name Format Binary Version
ACM Microsoft IMA ADPCM CODEC 0011 imaadp32.acm 6.1.7600.16385
ACM Microsoft CCITT G.711 A-Law and u-Law CODEC 0007 msg711.acm 6.1.7600.16385
ACM Microsoft GSM 6.10 Audio CODEC 0031 msgsm32.acm 6.1.7600.16385
ACM Microsoft ADPCM CODEC 0002 msadp32.acm 6.1.7600.16385
ACM Fraunhofer IIS MPEG Layer-3 Codec (decode only) 0055 l3codeca.acm 1.9.0.401
ACM Fraunhofer IIS MPEG Layer-3 Codec (professional) 0055 l3codeca.acm 1.9.0.401
ACM Microsoft PCM Converter 0001
DMO WMAudio Decoder DMO 0160, 0161, 0162, 0163 WMADMOD.DLL 6.1.7600.16385
DMO WMAPro over S/PDIF DMO 0162 WMADMOD.DLL 6.1.7600.16385
DMO WMSpeech Decoder DMO 000A, 000B WMSPDMOD.DLL 6.1.7600.16385
DMO MP3 Decoder DMO 0055 mp3dmod.dll 6.1.7600.16385

Video Codecs
Type Name Format Binary Version
ICM Microsoft RLE MRLE msrle32.dll 6.1.7600.16490
ICM Microsoft Video 1 MSVC msvidc32.dll 6.1.7600.16490
ICM Microsoft YUV UYVY msyuv.dll 6.1.7600.16490
ICM Intel IYUV codec IYUV iyuv_32.dll 6.1.7600.16490
ICM Logitech Video (I420) i420 lvcodec2.dll 12.10.1110.0
ICM Toshiba YUV Codec Y411 tsbyuv.dll 6.1.7600.16490
ICM Cinepak Codec by Radius cvid iccvid.dll 1.10.0.12
ICM VMnc v2 VMC2
DMO Mpeg4s Decoder DMO mp4s, MP4S, m4s2, M4S2, MP4V, mp4v, XVID, xvid, DIVX, DX50 mp4sdecd.dll 6.1.7600.16385
DMO WMV Screen decoder DMO MSS1, MSS2 wmvsdecd.dll 6.1.7600.16385
DMO WMVideo Decoder DMO WMV1, WMV2, WMV3, WMVA, WVC1, WMVP, WVP2 wmvdecod.dll 6.1.7600.16385
DMO Mpeg43 Decoder DMO mp43, MP43 mp43decd.dll 6.1.7600.16385
DMO MS ATC Screen Decoder 1 MSA1 scdec.dll 8.0.6362.143
DMO Mpeg4 Decoder DMO MPG4, mpg4, mp42, MP42 mpg4decd.dll 6.1.7600.16385

MPEG/DVD Filters
Type Name Binary Version
video MainConcept (AdobeEncore) MPEG Video Decoder
video "MainConcept (Adobe2) MPEG Video Decoder"
video Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder msmpeg2vdec.dll 6.1.7140.0
video P2G Video Decoder P2GVSD.ax 6.0.0.2310
audio MainConcept (AdobeEncore) MPEG Audio Decoder
audio Microsoft DTV-DVD Audio Decoder msmpeg2adec.dll 6.1.7140.0
audio "MainConcept (Adobe2) MPEG Audio Decoder"
audio P2G Audio Decoder P2GAud.ax 6.1.0.3601

Plug-ins
None Found

Services
Name Key Binary Version
Audible.com Audible
eMusic emusic
FaroLatino Music and Video FaroLatino11_EN
Media Guide MediaGuide
MIXPLAY MIXPLAY_USA

Content Partner
None Found

I sent them an email asking if they've tested it with the native 1080/60p foootage.

Thanks for the link Rick! That looks like a great option for playing back our footage outside the TM700 its self.

Cheers,
Pete