Originally Posted by Tom Danley
Since you seem to have chosen me as your DTS-10 measurements whipping boy, let's clarify a few things, shall we?
First, your hiding behind what the pro sound industry does regarding measurements is not only a weak argument, it's irrelevant to the discussion.
Bosso from my perspective, by being the most outspoken critic, of a technology you weren't familiar with and never heard, you painted the picture or at least composed it.
Also, I am pretty sure if the average person looked at the gallery of some of the installations using our products, you will see that they are mostly all larger Pro-sound / commercial sound installations, the reason is that IS in fact the industry we are in.
I disagree that is irrelevant to what we do, what spec's are required, but actually focused on it.
Most DIY products have been measured, tweaked, nit-picked, discussed, debated and argued from every conceivable angle. Wiggins, Haskins, Kyle, Ding, Beltran, Kuypers, et al, have engaged in these discussions with DIYers, representing their company's amps, drivers and theories.
I know Carlos from ages ago and Dan slightly, but weren't they trying to build a business to sell products in the home ?
My posting on the DTS-10 DIY thread occasionally was what then, not discussing it?
Keep in mind, this was not a full fledged company project, this was MY IDEA of something fun not a core business move, or even something some at the shop knew about initially. I had to press to get this to happen.
I like to build things, I have explained that, that is how I got in the business, that's how I worked with Mark and Jeff back at Servodrive, they loved to build speakers too, also fully addicted to sound, fellow coneheads (but not from Remulac).
Far from being the exception, every single and multiple driver sub from 10" to 21" in a sealed, IB, ported, bandpass and passive radiator alignments has either been measured or performance has been fairly expertly extrapolated countless times by Nousaine, Mullen, Craig, Rissanen, CJWhitehouse and many other enthusiasts with capable systems and more than adequate knowledge.
Well I know who Tom Nousain is, have met him, the rest I don't , I presume they would be writers / reviewers for home gear or something.
I guess I am not clear on your point though, are you saying the other manufacturers normally provide CEA2010 data, or, that when products are being promoted and sent for review, that these folks measure them?
At some point we will send some home products in for review but we haven't finished any yet.
In the case of the DTS-10 "DIY" project, no T/S parameters for the driver are provided, no sanctioned measurements, no maximum output @ 1M, no motor topology details... pretty much no nothing but a quasi-anechoic frequency response and amplifier rating recommendation.
Lighten up Francis says sgt Hulka.
This was my idea, it was supposed to be a just for fun project, not something we were marketing or building a business on.
Why do you think we ran no print ads, didn't promote it like our regular products , why some of the folks answering the phone didn't know about it, getting the picture? IT WAS FOR FUN.
If I can, I am going to do another limited for fun project, maybe more complicated as this one went well. Like this one, it will be open to the most experimental mindset, like this, the people who go for it will know what it does and I don't see anyone complaining they were ripped off with the DTS-10 do you?.
If you have a problem with that approach again, don't buy one, it's not for everyone, it wasn't supposed to be.. That probably sounds like weird approach but hey, there we are.
The response to my inquiries, which were based on Ricci's prog sweeps, which at least provided a tad of reference vs his XXX sealed and ported sweeps as well as MH's apparently botched attempt at 2M outdoors test, were met with an avalanche of insulting remarks, capped by your own admonition that I should simply read other's subjective comments and leave it at that.
Picture this if you can, no one was willing to go back and take more data just for you. You did leave a bad taste, you probably knew that, so your insinuations had something to do with that reluctance, that and being winter /rainy..
What is humorous is that you fully accept and let pass all of the "you will not find sub(s) that will outperform them in output, quality, and extension", "have been numerous comparisons with..." "already know it's on a par with XXX, LMS..." completely unsubstantiated claims made in this thread and many other places, but you chose to post regarding a reference to your own published ground plane measurements, singling me out as the patron of the failed exercise.
You can probably understand that my concern is much less about people that say good things as bad, or worse incorrect things, like posting the CEA2010 result that was in question without the qualifier that went with them..
Please allow me to let Danley Sound Labs off the hook. I could not care less what the DTS-10 CEA 2010 numbers may be. Do not put yourselves through the expense and trouble because I won't care in the least what the results will be.
Bosso, you overestimate your importance in the big picture and as you infer, I know nothing, not measurements, not impressions could change your opinion, but as before, when time permits we will do them again as they do appear to be a useful measure.
There was just no pressure to do so, especially while it was winter and there were / are regular products to work on.
Meanwhile, it's time to put a new deck belt on the lawn tractor and then cut the yard hay.