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Basic upconverting receiver

post #1 of 21
5/11/10 at 5:45am
Thread Starter 
I know this topic has been covered, but all of the threads I found were kind of old. I'm looking for the most basic / cheapest receiver that will upconvert. In my living room I have these 4 items to connect: HD satellite receiver, upscaling dvd player, nintendo Wii, old school nintendo 8-bit system. The first 2 are simple hdmi connections, but the Wii only has component and the 8-bit NES has composite. I'd like to be able to connect everything to a receiver and have the tv set to a single input. Now, I'm willing to sacrifice the 8-bit NES if it's a lot easier to find a AV the will only upconvert component to hdmi. Anyone have any suggestions? Also, my tv is 1080p.
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post #2 of 21
5/11/10 at 6:04am
The Denon 1610 will upconvert composite and component to HDMI and will provide excellent audio quality as well. Although older game machines sometimes have difficulty passing video. It's selling at a great price at Electronics Expo, although currently out of stock so you must call to see if any in store stock can be shipped out. Also, the new HDMI 1.4 1611 will be out next month.
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post #3 of 21
5/11/10 at 6:19am
A receiver featuring Anchor Bay VRS would be ideal IMO.
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post #4 of 21
5/11/10 at 8:20am
In the Onkyo line look at the SR607/RC160 and higher models. In the Harman Kardon line the 2600/3600 - the 1600 only upconverts component. The Denon 590/1610 and higher also have this capability.
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post #5 of 21
5/11/10 at 9:29am
Thread Starter 
Most of those are out of my price range. I'm trying to keep the receiver under $200. Looks like I'm going to have to settle on something that only upconverts component.

Does the Harman Kardon 1600 have the ability to do A/B speakers? I can't seem to find any documentation stating this. I'd never put more than 5.1 in my living room so I could use the other 2 spots for a 2-channel setup outside on the deck for music.
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post #6 of 21
5/11/10 at 10:15am
After reading the 1600 manual I have to correct myself - apparently it does 'transcode' composite to HDMI. What it doesn't do is convert - or transcode (in HK language) composite to component. So you can upconvert (transcode in HK manuals) analog signals to HDMI.

The 1600 has zone ll capability - if you only set up 5.1 speakers in the main listening area.
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post #7 of 21
5/11/10 at 11:07am
Thread Starter 
So you're saying everything I hook up to this thing (2 x hdmi, 1 x component, and 1 x composite) can output on a single hdmi cable?
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post #8 of 21
5/11/10 at 11:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crash11 View Post

So you're saying everything I hook up to this thing (2 x hdmi, 1 x component, and 1 x composite) can output on a single hdmi cable?

Yes - any non HDMI source will need either analog or coax/optical audio input.
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post #9 of 21
5/11/10 at 11:26am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knucklehead90 View Post

After reading the 1600 manual I have to correct myself - apparently it does 'transcode' composite to HDMI. What it doesn't do is convert - or transcode (in HK language) composite to component. So you can upconvert (transcode in HK manuals) analog signals to HDMI.

The 1600 has zone ll capability - if you only set up 5.1 speakers in the main listening area.

Can you point me to the page in the manual that mentions each of these functions (transcoding composite to hdmi and zone II capability)? I read through the manual, and I think I saw a mention of composite sources being converted to hdmi output. However, I never read anything about multizone capability.
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post #10 of 21
5/11/10 at 1:38pm
While I'm reasonably sure that all analog video is transcoded to HDMI I think this question is best asked in the 1600/2600/3600 owner's thread. Someone will know for sure. The manual doesn't have a diagram that shows for a certainty that it has this capability like some of their earlier manuals. Worst case scenario is you would have to run a composite video cable from the source or the AVR for a video signal.

What I do know for sure is composite isn't converted to component in the 1600. A very dodgy manual to read.

Multizone can be found on the back of the AVR - the speaker connections for rear surrounds is also labeled zone ll. You should find a place in the setup to switch that feature on.
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post #11 of 21
5/11/10 at 4:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knucklehead90 View Post

While I'm reasonably sure that all analog video is transcoded to HDMI I think this question is best asked in the 1600/2600/3600 owner's thread. Someone will know for sure. The manual doesn't have a diagram that shows for a certainty that it has this capability like some of their earlier manuals. Worst case scenario is you would have to run a composite video cable from the source or the AVR for a video signal.

What I do know for sure is composite isn't converted to component in the 1600. A very dodgy manual to read.

Multizone can be found on the back of the AVR - the speaker connections for rear surrounds is also labeled zone ll. You should find a place in the setup to switch that feature on.

OK...
Lets clear up the confusion for the AVR1600..

1. Analog to HDMI Conversion
The 1600 uses the ADI HDMI Rx IC that converts analog to HDMI Out, it does no scaling. So whatever comes in, goes out; 480p (480p In > 480p Out), 720p (720p In > 720p Out), 1080i (1080i In > 1080i Out).

2. Zone II
The 1600 has no Zone II capability.

Just my $0.01..
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post #12 of 21
5/11/10 at 5:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

OK...
Lets clear up the confusion for the AVR1600..

1. Analog to HDMI Conversion
The 1600 uses the ADI HDMI Rx IC that converts analog to HDMI Out, it does no scaling. So whatever comes in, goes out; 480p (480p In > 480p Out), 720p (720p In > 720p Out), 1080i (1080i In > 1080i Out).
I got the analog to HDMI right.
But I'm confused by your statement - why are 2 speaker terminals labeled 'Surround Back - Zone ll" in the manual?


2. Zone II
The 1600 has no Zone II capability.

Just my $0.01..

OK - I got the analog to HDMI right.
So why is there a set of speaker terminals on the back labeled "Back Surround/Zone ll" if there is no Zone ll?
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post #13 of 21
5/11/10 at 6:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knucklehead90 View Post

OK - I got the analog to HDMI right.
So why is there a set of speaker terminals on the back labeled "Back Surround/Zone ll" if there is no Zone ll?

The 1600 has 7 amplifiers on-board but they made no provision for Zone II.
What drawing are you looking @ ??
The 1600 Operation Guide @ www.HarmanKardon.com has no mention for Zone II..


Just my $0.01..
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post #14 of 21
5/11/10 at 6:49pm
Why have the receiver do a ADC and up-convert when the TV will do it anyways (and most likely better)? That's why I only run digital (HDMI and S/PDIF) sources into my receiver and bypass it for all analog connections.

P.S. I think you can upgrade the SNES to S-Video output.
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post #15 of 21
5/11/10 at 6:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SovietSlayer View Post

Why have the receiver do a ADC and up-convert when the TV will do it anyways (and most likely better)?

P.S. I think you can upgrade the SNES to S-Video output.

To simplify the system wiring.
So that (1) single cable can be run to the video display while the AVR is doing the video switching and audio processing..

Just my $0.01..
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post #16 of 21
5/11/10 at 6:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

To simplify the system wiring.
So that (1) single cable can be run to the video display while the AVR is doing the video switching and audio processing..

Just my $0.01..

The only comprise I would make is for the bolded part. Run a component cables for component video, an HDMI cable for HDMI video and disable HDMI conversion when using component. But I still wouldn't have the receiver do a analog-to-digital conversion over the TV.
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post #17 of 21
5/11/10 at 9:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

The 1600 has 7 amplifiers on-board but they made no provision for Zone II.
What drawing are you looking @ ??
The 1600 Operation Guide @ www.HarmanKardon.com has no mention for Zone II..


Just my $0.01..

I've been using the 1600 user manual dated Oct 2009 and labeled AVR1600_OM_Oct2009.pdf - I save manuals on my computer.

I just downloaded the Nov 2009 manual AVR1600_OM_ENG.WEB_ 11_04.pdf. Guess what? No mention of zone ll.

Apparently they had errors in the original manual - certainly this is one of them.

If you want to take a look at it email me and I'll send it to you - it's 2.2mb and AVS won't let me download any attachments larger than 500kb.

I replaced the erroneous manual.
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post #18 of 21
5/11/10 at 10:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knucklehead90 View Post

I've been using the 1600 user manual dated Oct 2009 and labeled AVR1600_OM_Oct2009.pdf - I save manuals on my computer.

I just downloaded the Nov 2009 manual AVR1600_OM_ENG.WEB_ 11_04.pdf. Guess what? No mention of zone ll.

Apparently they had errors in the original manual - certainly this is one of them.

If you want to take a look at it email me and I'll send it to you - it's 2.2mb and AVS won't let me download any attachments larger than 500kb.

I replaced the erroneous manual.



We had posted previously that the HK website has tons of errors for features and specification values. Just maybe now this situation has been corrected...

Regarding the 1600, we knew it had no Zone II as we have installed a few of them. For an entry-level AVR with a kick-butt amplifier it does very well.

For the present HK AVRs, at least in North America see below for their respective Zone II features:

1. AVR1600, no Zone II
2. AVR2600, Zone II audio (speaker out only) but no dedicated Zone II remote
3. AVR3600, Zone II audio (speaker and L/R line out) with dedicated Zone II remote
4. AVR7550HD, Zone II audio (speaker and L/R line out), Zone II video out with dedicated Zone II remote

Just my $0.01..
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post #19 of 21
5/12/10 at 5:40am
Thread Starter 
Crap. This is what I was afraid of. If the 1600 had zone 2 I would've bought one immediately. Now I'm in a pickle. Here's the overall situation:

I'd like to bump up the audio power and clarity in my living room (currently using a crappy 2.1 set fed by the audio out on the tv). I need to connect 4 devices (satellite tv, dvd player, wii, NES) and leave room for the wife to connect her mp3 player for music. It's not an IPOD so it just needs a mini jack. The HK 1600 leaves room for all of this, but then there was the idea for leaving room for a zone 2 on the deck outside the living room. Is there any avr out there that gets me these functions for under $250? Otherwise I've been looking at a Sony soundbar (CT500). It has most of this and can communicate with wireless speakers for the deck.

Am I screwed here? I'd rather not get a soundbar.
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post #20 of 21
5/12/10 at 7:37am
You should be able to snag a refurbished HK 2600 from Harman Audio. Some of them have been going for under $250. You could also look for a 254. Right now they are selling mainly the 1600 but that will change - it always does.

The Onkyo RC160 is the closest to your budget ($269) that I know of with zone ll capability. It's a well regarded low-mid range receiver.
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post #21 of 21
5/12/10 at 7:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

Regarding the 1600, we knew it had no Zone II as we have installed a few of them. For an entry-level AVR with a kick-butt amplifier it does very well.

I knew you are very familiar with the HK line due to your vocation - so my thinking was something was wrong - but my eyes wasn't deceiving me - must be the manual! It was.

I downloaded the new manuals as soon as they became available - who knew they'd be so rife with errors?

Anyway I've updated my reference library with the latest (correct I hope) manuals.

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. The last thing I want to do is steer someone wrong.
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