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3D Television - Fad or Here To Stay? - Page 48

post #1411 of 2590
11/1/10 at 3:36pm
Agreed
You could get an inexpensive PC or a 32" LCD TV for the price of the Logitech remote

So..what you are saying..if you have a PC then the Logitech would not be of use to you?

By the way...I find this interesting as the Samsung remote that comes with the 9000 series is "curiously" a lot like this Logitech
It has all of those same features...when the salesman told me about and that it was a $300 option on some other Samsung TV's( but comes standard with the 9000 series)...I thought to myself...who is going to use their TV remote to browse the web etc...even though it has a flip open Qwerty keyboard...it still didn't seem very ergonomic to me
It seemed so out there..to me...granted this was a remote that came with a $4K TV...but I just thought it was over the top

So from what I understand...you have to bring internet access to the Logitech?...by either wired or wireless network?...and an additional fee added to what ever you already pay for your cable/Satellite service?

Man..this seems like for the money...such a luxury Non-Mainstream item...Joe...what's going on I thought you were all about being mainstream?..lol




But Joe..you answered my question. You are the person that would buy this type of remote...except without the $4k TV of course

By the way...does it allow you to print wirelessly?...and does sit connect to multiple TV's on the same home network I assume?


Warren
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post #1412 of 2590
11/1/10 at 5:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

Agreed
You could get an inexpensive PC or a 32" LCD TV for the price of the Logitech remote

So..what you are saying..if you have a PC then the Logitech would not be of use to you?

By the way...I find this interesting as the Samsung remote that comes with the 9000 series is "curiously" a lot like this Logitech
It has all of those same features...when the salesman told me about and that it was a $300 option on some other Samsung TV's( but comes standard with the 9000 series)...I thought to myself...who is going to use their TV remote to browse the web etc...even though it has a flip open Qwerty keyboard...it still didn't seem very ergonomic to me
It seemed so out there..to me...granted this was a remote that came with a $4K TV...but I just thought it was over the top

But Joe..you answered my question. You are the person that would buy this type of remote...except without the $4k TV of course

By the way...does it allow you to print wirelessly?...and does sit connect to multiple TV's on the same home network I assume?


Warren

Hi Warren,

You're right, if I had a P.C., wouldn't be interested in the Logitech just for the interactive features, however, since most do not have their P.C. in their living room, can see some getting it to surf the web in their living from the comfort of their $499 to $4,999 couch (everyone knocks a dollar off the price to make it appear cheaper . But since I don't have a PC, it's nice having the interaction with the cable box and TV - right now I got a small HD picture in the corner of TIm Lincecum on the mound when writing.

But no, I wouldn't buy those smaller remotes even if they went for a few dollars - don't understand why anybody would for the included keyboard is easier to maneuver than a handheld keypad.

It does have wifi connections, will interact with other media players but is programmed for only one cable box and TV - guess one could get a HDMI splitter if they wanted to use it on multiple sets but they would lose the interaction and picture in picture on one set.

Know there are other plug and play web boxes out there (apple tv, etc.) but all the reviews of the revue admitted the Logitech does so much more and has much more power and memory.
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post #1413 of 2590
11/2/10 at 5:16am
Warren & Joe,
IMO, the Revue is much more a part of the evolution of Home Theaters right now, then 3D is. Computers and the Internet have turned into a part of every household. Kids as young as can be now know their way around a computer. Computers are used in schools, libraries, work, and many job applications are now online or on a "company" terminal (like Wal-Mart).

With the evolution of the flat screen TV, we now have the connections and the size to utilize them as a computer monitor right in our living room. Many "advance" users have been using Window's Media Player, via their computers, as DVRs for video and running their iTunes through their home audio system.

Now I agree that at this point in time, the merger of computers & home theater is not enough to stop having a computer in your home for, let's say, "actual computing" (spread sheets, etc,), but in time we will get there. Processors will be made to adapt to the changes coming.

So, the merging of home computers & home theaters, to borrow a phase, "Is only logical".

John (Ghpr13)
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post #1414 of 2590
11/2/10 at 6:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghpr13 View Post

Warren & Joe,
IMO, the Revue is much more a part of the evolution of Home Theaters right now, then 3D is. Computers and the Internet have turned into a part of every household. Kids as young as can be now know their way around a computer. Computers are used in schools, libraries, work, and many job applications are now online or on a "company" terminal (like Wal-Mart).

With the evolution of the flat screen TV, we now have the connections and the size to utilize them as a computer monitor right in our living room. Many "advance" users have been using Window's Media Player, via their computers, as DVRs for video and running their iTunes through their home audio system.

Now I agree that at this point in time, the merger of computers & home theater is not enough to stop having a computer in your home for, let's say, "actual computing" (spread sheets, etc,), but in time we will get there. Processors will be made to adapt to the changes coming.

So, the merging of home computers & home theaters, to borrow a phase, "Is only logical".

John (Ghpr13)

Why Mr. Spock, you almost make me believe in miracles.
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post #1415 of 2590
11/2/10 at 6:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Dubin View Post

Hi Warren,

You're right, if I had a P.C., wouldn't be interested in the Logitech just for the interactive features, however, since most do not have their P.C. in their living room, can see some getting it to surf the web in their living from the comfort of their $499 to $4,999 couch (everyone knocks a dollar off the price to make it appear cheaper . But since I don't have a PC, it's nice having the interaction with the cable box and TV - right now I got a small HD picture in the corner of TIm Lincecum on the mound when writing.

But no, I wouldn't buy those smaller remotes even if they went for a few dollars - don't understand why anybody would for the included keyboard is easier to maneuver than a handheld keypad.

It does have wifi connections, will interact with other media players but is programmed for only one cable box and TV - guess one could get a HDMI splitter if they wanted to use it on multiple sets but they would lose the interaction and picture in picture on one set.

Know there are other plug and play web boxes out there (apple tv, etc.) but all the reviews of the revue admitted the Logitech does so much more and has much more power and memory.

Joe

here is a blurb from a Samsung ad that speaks about the remote that comes with their 9000 TV series( and $300 option for selected others)

"What is this thing?!

Okay, so we're going to start describing something, and you stop us when you think you've got it figured out: Built-in Wi-Fi, DLNA networking, full QWERTY keyboard, 3.0" touchscreen . . . Maybe you're imagining a laptop computer or even a smart phone. But the correct answer is (drum roll): a remote control. A remote control?! Yes, but  as you've guessed  not your ordinary remote. However, this shouldn't be the least bit surprising, given that the RMC30C2 is designed for use with Samsung's most advanced 2010 HDTVs. Sporting wired and wireless internet capability, Samsung's 2010 HDTVs not only bring you exceptional HD video images, but they also let you immerse yourself in online video and music from providers like Netflix and Pandora radio. Naturally, with so much media at your disposal, you need a simple, powerful way to take full advantage. Enter the RMC30C2. Sync up all your home A/V components  HDTV, PC, digital camera, smart phone   with AllShare DLNA networking technology, and the RMC30C2's built-in 802.11 Wi-Fi lets you take the helm of your integrated media system. Stream audio and video directly from networked devices to your Samsung HDTV or Blu-ray player. Further, the large, clear 3.0" touchscreen offers fast, simple control, and even converts into a full QWERTY keyboard when you want to browse Samsung Apps on your HDTV. Finally, a built-in rechargeable battery ensures that you never have to worry about replacing AA batteries."

Honestly..I thought this remote was over the top and asked myself "who would use this?''....of course I understand its comes with a $4K TV...so in the interest of that $4999 couch person, practicality is not something that they necessarily subscribe to

But I guess it would allow you to broadcast you PC information, from another room, onto your TV


Warren
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post #1416 of 2590
11/2/10 at 6:44am
On another note
I have REALLY been tempted lately to indulge myself with the new Samsung 8000 series Plasma TV. It is actually less expensive than I paid for my current plasma TV, weighs 55# less, has interactivity..though I have a blu ray so I am not sure I would ever use the TV interactivity,uses significantly less energy in operation and has a much better picture( to my eyes) than my current TV...and supposedly will last much longer...though as fast as things have changed that is likely a moot point

Like Joe said earlier...as fast and furious as these prices have fallen there might be a free one with a tank of gas before this TV would go out

It is also happens to be 3D capable...though that's not really anywhere near as important as the 2D picture quality
They have made the bezels so much smaller these days that I can get the next size larger TV in the same spot as my old one...5 inches more TV viewing area..and the physical TV is only an inch taller

Tempting...I was in MHT the other day looking at Pirates of the Caribbean in one of their dark theater rooms on one of the Samsung 8000 Plasmas



Warren
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post #1417 of 2590
11/2/10 at 7:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghpr13 View Post

Warren & Joe,
IMO, the Revue is much more a part of the evolution of Home Theaters right now, then 3D is. Computers and the Internet have turned into a part of every household. Kids as young as can be now know their way around a computer. Computers are used in schools, libraries, work, and many job applications are now online or on a "company" terminal (like Wal-Mart).

With the evolution of the flat screen TV, we now have the connections and the size to utilize them as a computer monitor right in our living room. Many "advance" users have been using Window's Media Player, via their computers, as DVRs for video and running their iTunes through their home audio system.

Now I agree that at this point in time, the merger of computers & home theater is not enough to stop having a computer in your home for, let's say, "actual computing" (spread sheets, etc,), but in time we will get there. Processors will be made to adapt to the changes coming.

So, the merging of home computers & home theaters, to borrow a phase, "Is only logical".

John (Ghpr13)

John

I think a lot of families with teenage children in the home are already there
I know several families that already have the "family" network where they are already steaming wireless around house and sending files back and forth


Warren
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post #1418 of 2590
11/2/10 at 8:12am
Hi Guys! Great Topic - I am a THX Certified Home Theatre Professional and many of us are currently having the same debate... I specialize in High-End custom home theatres. The truth about todays 3D technology (even with glasses) is it's getting awesome! especially when compared to previous 3D technologies. Here are my Pro's and Con's with today's 3D technology:

PRO's:
- Panasonic 3D Plasma TV's - by far the best 3D experience that I have enjoyed.
- It's fun! Yes, FUN is important and we must not forget to have some FUN!
- It creates jobs - conversions from 2D - 3D films, equipment, and theatre rooms.

Con's:
- In a 'THX Certified' screening room, your L, C, R channels are placed behind a perforated screen for optimized audio. 3D projector technology is a far cry from 3D Plasma technology. Unless your willing to compromise your audio system, 3D video is not ideal for an 'optimal' home theatre experience - but they are working on it!
- Glasses are annoying and can break easily, require batteries and will ultimately find their way to a land fill in the near future.
- Many companies are jumping on the 3D marketing trend to sell more product! Be careful of what you buy!

In my opinion, Plasma is the way to go for an immersive and enjoyable 3D experience and Panasonic has impressed me the most, so far.

All the Best!

PS. Did somebody say Holographic??? Hmmmmm

Nick Foulds
SOUNDTRAP
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post #1419 of 2590
11/2/10 at 8:19am
Interesting

You post has me thinking of a lot of questions

1. Why is plasma definitely the way to go?
2. Why do you put Panasonic ahead of the rest in 3D technology
3. What do you mean by placement behind the screen and 3D is not optimized for hometheater sound?
4. Any "buzz" in your field about the new Toshiba technology that doesn't require glasses?


Warren
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post #1420 of 2590
11/2/10 at 9:03am
Nick: Welcome to the forum.

Thanks for your input.
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post #1421 of 2590
11/2/10 at 9:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 73shark View Post

Nick: Welcome to the forum.

Thanks for your input.

Likewise, Nick.

The big debate here is not so much the technology but whether or not 3D becomes a big consumer niche or limited to videophiles. Some of us point to the high cost, the economy, viewing habits being different in the theater than at home, more than two thirds of families already owning HD montiors and most of those being quite content with the picture quality they have.

What are your thoughts, not on the technical issues, but of the buying ones.

Joe
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post #1422 of 2590
11/2/10 at 9:26am
Nick, welcome to the forums. Whenever you have a moment, I'd love to read your responses to Warren's questions above.
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post #1423 of 2590
11/2/10 at 9:26am
I have also heard the Plasma is better than LCD's. I also believe you need to get a very large screen to enjoy 3d. If I was looking for the best, I would look to a 65" plasma. To small for me though. I am enjoying a 82" dlp for 3d. Sitting distance 12 1/2 feet from the screen. Perfect size for 2d. With 3d I would like it a little bit larger. Size matters to get fully emerged in 3d. Dlp's also work very well. Dlp projector is what is used in movie theaters.
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post #1424 of 2590
11/2/10 at 10:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Dubin View Post

Likewise, Nick.

The big debate here is not so much the technology but whether or not 3D becomes a big consumer niche or limited to videophiles. Some of us point to the high cost, the economy, viewing habits being different in the theater than at home, more than two thirds of families already owning HD montiors and most of those being quite content with the picture quality they have.

What are your thoughts, not on the technical issues, but of the buying ones.

Joe

Joe...I again respectfully disagree with you
There are many interested in the technical sides of things and see value in the latest technology
You don't..and thats fine
However there are those many of us that you don't call "mainstream".
From a videophile/audiophile standpoint there are many of both right here in this forum
Mainstream is a word that could mean having an analog TV( with converter box) looking at OTA channels..it would surprise me if there if there is not a significant percentage doing just that. It seems a definite that the majority of people are looking at TV using at OTA antenna. Those people aren't interested in 1080P blu ray, 3D or the better advances in sound..maybe they don't see a big difference and here we are at the $500 and $5000 couch again
And again...that's fine
But for the 13% of us that buy blu ray ...some of us are interested in technical information in order to make an informed decision

By the way I don't know what you mean by higher cost and different viewing habits in your post above...these are much less expensive than sets half their size 20 years ago( adjusted for inflation)...as for home theater environments...I have one set up in my home and I by no means live in a luxury home. People like Nick do custom installs for people that can appreciate and can typically afford those products that fall in the higher end of the product spectrum

I for one am very interested the technical aspect of the new technology.

Joe..based on your mainstream methodology...every manufacturer that produces and/or sells only high end goods should be out of business
I wonder how many $5000 couches were sold this year?...and you are not employed by Walmart are you?..as you are really selling their "brand"



Warren
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post #1425 of 2590
11/2/10 at 11:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

Interesting

You post has me thinking of a lot of questions

1. Why is plasma definitely the way to go?

Warren

http://www.tvpredictions.com/3dsets110110.htm

While I don't care about 3D TV in it's current format (glasses), I have always preferred Plasma over other technologies for TV viewing because it's phosphor based panels look most like a conventional CRT. They have more accurate color, better depth, better blacks, better viewing angles, and basically no motion blur. I have a 32" LCD in my bedroom and my THX Plasma smokes it all the way around.
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post #1426 of 2590
11/2/10 at 11:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

Joe...I again respectfully disagree with you
There are many interested in the technical sides of things and see value in the latest technology
You don't..and thats fine
However there are those many of us that you don't call "mainstream".
From a videophile/audiophile standpoint there are many of both right here in this forum
Mainstream is a word that could mean having an analog TV( with converter box) looking at OTA channels..it would surprise me if there if there is not a significant percentage doing just that. It seems a definite that the majority of people are looking at TV using at OTA antenna. Those people aren't interested in 1080P blu ray, 3D or the better advances in sound..maybe they don't see a big difference and here we are at the $500 and $5000 couch again
And again...that's fine
But for the 13% of us that buy blu ray ...some of us are interested in technical information in order to make an informed decision

By the way I don't know what you mean by higher cost and different viewing habits in your post above...these are much less expensive than sets half their size 20 years ago( adjusted for inflation)...as for home theater environments...I have one set up in my home and I by no means live in a luxury home. People like Nick do custom installs for people that can appreciate and can typically afford those products that fall in the higher end of the product spectrum

I for one am very interested the technical aspect of the new technology.

Joe..based on your mainstream methodology...every manufacturer that produces and/or sells only high end goods should be out of business
I wonder how many $5000 couches were sold this year?...and you are not employed by Walmart are you?..as you are really selling their "brand"



Warren

Hi Warren,

I wasn't providing opinions this time, just the history of our debates so our new members had an idea of how the discussions were going.
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post #1427 of 2590
11/2/10 at 12:41pm
Fair enough

But I think several of us are interested in the technical aspects and advantages of the new 3D format that perhaps Nick can shed some light on.
I am FAR more interested in that aspect..personally


Warren
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post #1428 of 2590
11/2/10 at 3:49pm
Hi Warren,

Believe me, I'm not a Walmart shopper but neither do I shop in Beverly Hills - just somewhere in the middle.

As far as consumer electronics goes, put me in the middle as well. There are so many ingredients that go into a purchasing decision. Price, brand, consumer and professional reviews, differences between a unit and the model above it as far as features go (i.e., for the Yamaha receiver in the den did not need to spend an extra $50 to $75 for 20 more watts per channel but have a more powerful 6.1 in the living room). Same with the subwoofer - got (for the time) an less powerful, inexpensive KLH for the den but a much better Infinity for the living room (which is obviously the bigger of the two rooms)..

Do most purchases via the web, comparing price, return policy, site reputation and whether the site is an authorized dealer. Don't care to purchase the least expensive product put out even by a brand name. The Samsung LCD was more the exception because it was for our second home theater system. Again, wasn't looking to spend a lot for the den but didn't want to get low quality, either. So after all the research, it seemed the the Samsung was the way to go compared to similar priced sets from Panasonic, Sony, LG, etc. If none of them seemed good, would have spent more.

Sounds like an exciting and glamorous life, right? .

Joe
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post #1429 of 2590
11/2/10 at 4:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Dubin View Post

Hi Warren,

Believe me, I'm not a Walmart shopper but neither do I shop in Beverly Hills - just somewhere in the middle.

As far as consumer electronics goes, put me in the middle as well. There are so many ingredients that go into a purchasing decision. Price, brand, consumer and professional reviews, differences between a unit and the model above it as far as features go (i.e., for the Yamaha receiver in the den did not need to spend an extra $50 to $75 for 20 more watts per channel but have a more powerful 6.1 in the living room). Same with the subwoofer - got (for the time) an less powerful, inexpensive KLH for the den but a much better Infinity for the living room (which is obviously the bigger of the two rooms)..

Do most purchases via the web, comparing price, return policy, site reputation and whether the site is an authorized dealer. Don't care to purchase the least expensive product put out even by a brand name. The Samsung LCD was more the exception because it was for our second home theater system. Again, wasn't looking to spend a lot for the den but didn't want to get low quality, either. So after all the research, it seemed the the Samsung was the way to go compared to similar priced sets from Panasonic, Sony, LG, etc. If none of them seemed good, would have spent more.

Sounds like an exciting and glamorous life, right? .

Joe

Somewhere in the middle likely means 95% of the population, including myself
And there is a LOT of difference in the middle

That being said..I have always been a person that appreciated quality and made it a point to always buy the best that I can afford

I also like to see what is new technology wise( and otherwise as well) and have no issue making the change when there is better more advanced products that can make my life more enjoyable.


I still want to hear on the technical side of things to see what to expect..placement of Av gear in the room...tips etc

I was reading the Samsung C8000 Plasma vs Panasonic V25 Plasma 3D television thread...its quite lengthy and extensive and the owners seem to be sitting on both sides of the fence as to what model to get

Warren
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post #1430 of 2590
11/2/10 at 5:53pm
To me it would seem that plasma TVs would be better for 3D just because of their response time. Since LCD can have motion blur I would think that would be even more prominent in 3D.

John (Ghpr13)
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post #1431 of 2590
11/2/10 at 7:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghpr13 View Post

To me it would seem that plasma TVs would be better for 3D just because of their response time. Since LCD can have motion blur I would think that would be even more prominent in 3D.

Another big thing in favor of plasma for 3D use, is they do not suffer from poor off angle viewing like the LCD sets do.
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post #1432 of 2590
11/2/10 at 7:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

Another big thing in favor of plasma for 3D use, is they do not suffer from poor off angle viewing like the LCD sets do.

I agree.

Ghpr13
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post #1433 of 2590
11/2/10 at 8:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

I still want to hear on the technical side of things to see what to expect..placement of Av gear in the room...tips etc
Warren

What? You mean you're not more interested in my exciting and glamorous shopping habits?

From what I've seen in the stores, if I was in the market for a replacement of the KD34XBR960, it would be a Plasma - but I'm still leery about burn-in issues with logos like CNN and those stationery sports graphics.

Also, would a Plasma playback my DVD-Rs up-converted to 1080p OK as a CRT - don't forget I can only watch them at 480p on the Samsung LCD in the den.

Ciao,
Joe
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post #1434 of 2590
11/2/10 at 9:54pm
Saw Jackass in 3D tonight and again am getting disgusted with the force feeding of 3D movies. Damn near ever preview or every sign is for 3D. Some of the stunts we're enhanced by the 3D, but overall, I still find wearing the glasses to take away from my experience. Bottom line - 3D is a money grab for an extra couple bucks per ticket for the glasses.
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post #1435 of 2590
11/3/10 at 4:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghpr13 View Post

I agree.

Ghpr13


Motion blur issues are not an issue on a higher end Sony or Samsung
Off angle is still more of an issue...though trade off exist...brightness, energy savings and sharpness of picture with the LED that can't be had with the plasma

I have both and can see pluses and minus to both


Warren
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post #1436 of 2590
11/3/10 at 4:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Dubin View Post

What? You mean you're not more interested in my exciting and glamorous shopping habits?

From what I've seen in the stores, if I was in the market for a replacement of the KD34XBR960, it would be a Plasma - but I'm still leery about burn-in issues with logos like CNN and those stationery sports graphics.

Also, would a Plasma playback my DVD-Rs up-converted to 1080p OK as a CRT - don't forget I can only watch them at 480p on the Samsung LCD in the den.

Ciao,
Joe

You should look at some of the forums with owners of the newer plasma TV's
They will tell you burn is really a non -issue. I have had mine for a few year and no issues here

As for upconversion from standard DVD...based on what you say you can and cannot see differences in...you should be fine

BB also has a blu ray player on sale this week( with streaming capability) for $85.00


Warren
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post #1437 of 2590
11/3/10 at 4:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenJF3 View Post

Saw Jackass in 3D tonight and again am getting disgusted with the force feeding of 3D movies. Damn near ever preview or every sign is for 3D. Some of the stunts we're enhanced by the 3D, but overall, I still find wearing the glasses to take away from my experience. Bottom line - 3D is a money grab for an extra couple bucks per ticket for the glasses.

Why do you think the movie has done so well?....even substantially better than the previous Jackass movies?
Clearly there are those that think its quite entertaining...I can only think the huge improvement in ticket sales can be attributed to 3D



Warren
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post #1438 of 2590
11/3/10 at 6:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

Why do you think the movie has done so well?....even substantially better than the previous Jackass movies?
Clearly there are those that think its quite entertaining...I can only think the huge improvement in ticket sales can be attributed to 3D
Warren

Once again, we may never know for sure if 3D was the reason box office takes were so huge. It could be what I mentioned before, the appeal to 18-35 yo males. Or it could be just the timing. Summer is over, outside activities slow down, nothing else that would compete with that viewer base was released from Hollywood, and the length of time since the last Jackass film.

I'm sure 3D did add to the B.O. sales, but it's hard to put a % on it.

John (Ghpr13)
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post #1439 of 2590
11/3/10 at 8:33am
The only thing that I can find that would be different about it was the 3D
The demographics haven't changed and timeliness of the release is about the same as the older movies

and I won't even suggest that this one has more artistic merit than the other 2..


Warren
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post #1440 of 2590
11/3/10 at 8:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

The only thing that I can find that would be different about it was the 3D
The demographics haven't changed and timeliness of the release is about the same as the older movies

and I won't even suggest that this one has more artistic merit than the other 2..
Warren

Really?

Ghpr13
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