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3D Television - Fad or Here To Stay? - Page 68

post #2011 of 2615
Trauma....you bought a 3D TV. I would want more 3D content, too. You spend extra for the equipment to get 3D capabilities, you want to take advantage of your investment.

But, you ask if anyone would purposely ignore a 3D set if in the market for a new display? Absolutely! I can get a great 55"-58"-60"-65", even a 70" 2D display for at a very significant discount when compared to a similar 2D set. Given that, and the new 3D BD player investment, and the extra cost of 3D BDs, it's a technology whose best shot at being successful has come and gone.

When it was first introduced, there was a small uptick of the technology, but it's been sliding since then.

Compare that to the move from VHS-BETA to DVD, or DVD to BD, which started strong at launch and grew exponentially from there.

Again, those of you who have invested in the technology, you still have content that will trickle out. And, you still have some very interesting content that will alway be available to you.

I'm watching a 2D 1080p 50" Panasonic plasma in my den that cost about $650 that I bought last Black Friday (Have a 60" Pioneer Elite KURO in my HT room with a picture that still can't be beat).

Can't see me replacing any of my displays any time in the next 6-10 years....they're that good. The 3D cost, lack of content, just isn't compelling enough for any of us to put up with its substantial downsides.
post #2012 of 2615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

Somebody is sure confusing the word must, with the word should! No, there is no "must" for wearing glasses in all of your examples. Only that they should for most of them. Especially for safety reasons when it comes to things like working with chemicals or machining, grinding & drilling steel as well as most forms of woodworking. As for wearing sunglasses while driving in strong daylight being a must, that is not even remotely a must, and maybe not even a should for some people. I certainly don't wear sunglasses while driving in strong sunlight, and never have in over 30 years of driving.

It's not even up for debate. The examples I quoted are factual, not maybe or "should". Do you ski? I doubt it because 100% of skiers and snowboarders wear eye protection because of the UV in the mountains and the reflection off of the snow is so intense, you would eventually cause eye damage. So eye wear is a MUST in the ski and snowboard sport.

As far as driving without sunglasses, you need to take a trip out to the southwest and try doing that. Just because YOU choose not wear sunglasses while driving in intense sunlight doesn't mean anything besides that your stubborn. Studies show that sunglasses help PREVENT car accidents due to glare from the sun while driving. Do you have a motorcycle? Try riding a bike without glasses.

The point is that 3D is NOT hindered by the fact that you have to wear glasses. To those who claim it is, are not being honest and factual. You can dislike 3D, that is your right, but blaming the glasses is beyond ridiculous.
post #2013 of 2615
Quote:
Originally Posted by graphicguy View Post

Trauma....you bought a 3D TV. I would want more 3D content, too. You spend extra for the equipment to get 3D capabilities, you want to take advantage of your investment.

But, you ask if anyone would purposely ignore a 3D set if in the market for a new display? Absolutely! I can get a great 55"-58"-60"-65", even a 70" 2D display for at a very significant discount when compared to a similar 2D set. Given that, and the new 3D BD player investment, and the extra cost of 3D BDs, it's a technology whose best shot at being successful has come and gone.

When it was first introduced, there was a small uptick of the technology, but it's been sliding since then.

Compare that to the move from VHS-BETA to DVD, or DVD to BD, which started strong at launch and grew exponentially from there.

Again, those of you who have invested in the technology, you still have content that will trickle out. And, you still have some very interesting content that will alway be available to you.

I'm watching a 2D 1080p 50" Panasonic plasma in my den that cost about $650 that I bought last Black Friday (Have a 60" Pioneer Elite KURO in my HT room with a picture that still can't be beat).

Can't see me replacing any of my displays any time in the next 6-10 years....they're that good. The 3D cost, lack of content, just isn't compelling enough for any of us to put up with its substantial downsides.

They are selling more 3DTVs this year then they did last year. They are releasing more 3D BDs this year then they did last year. They are creating more 3D content this year then they did lst year. So how again is the technology "come and gone?"
post #2014 of 2615
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Daddicted View Post

This is a desperate grab to validate your argument. Sorry sir, but it's not cutting it and it's a little silly.

Silly, hardly! When it's a FACT, it is not silly!
post #2015 of 2615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lbear View Post

It's not even up for debate. The examples I quoted are factual, not maybe or "should".

BS!

A lot of what you brought up as a "must" example, was nothing more than your opinion. Granted, to do some of the things you mentioned without proper safety glasses, would be foolish.
post #2016 of 2615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

They are selling more 3DTVs this year then they did last year.

That's hardly any real surprise, when considering the addition of 3D support has also worked it's way into many more lower priced sets than there was a year ago. But just because those sets may have the support for it, it does not also mean everyone that bought one of those sets is also using the sets 3D functions.
post #2017 of 2615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

That's hardly any real surprise, when considering the addition of 3D support has also worked it's way into many more lower priced sets than there was a year ago. But just because those sets may have the support for it, it does not also mean everyone that bought one of those sets is also using the sets 3D functions.

Not really relevant is it? They are selling more 3DTVs - that's all that matters. People can choose to buy just an HDTV you know.

Do you believe everyone that buys an HDTV is watching HD?
post #2018 of 2615
Millions of people go to 3D movies in theaters. They have to wear 3D glasses. So why is it problem if they watch 3D at home? What is the difference?
post #2019 of 2615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Not really relevant is it? They are selling more 3DTVs - that's all that matters. People can choose to buy just an HDTV you know.

Of course it's relevant! Say you want a new 1080p 50"/55" or 60"/65" plasma set, unless you want to buy a used set from someone or a leftover non 3D model from somewhere that may still have one. It's not like you have a lot of choices anymore to get a new 50"-65" plasma without any 3D support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Do you believe everyone that buys an HDTV is watching HD?

No, probably not everyone. You can still have something like Direct TV with no HD at all. But even people with only off-air for programming, are watching at least some HDTV if their HDTV also has a built in off air HDTV tuner and they are watching any major off air networking programming. So in that case to get HDTV, it requires nothing more than a HDTV with a internal HDTV tuner and a antenna connection. Unlike 3D, which also requires not only a 3D capable TV, but also either cable or satellite TV programming with 3D, or a 3D Blu-ray player. As of yet, there is no free off air programming for 3D, and quite possibly never will be.
post #2020 of 2615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

Of course it's relevant! Say you want a new 1080p 50"/55" or 60"/65" plasma set, unless you want to buy a used set from someone or a leftover non 3D model from somewhere that may still have one. It's not like you have a lot of choices anymore to get a new 50"-65" plasma without any 3D support.

Where do you live that has emptied all 2D models? At least in my neck of the woods, retailers are still sporting a larger selection of 2D then 3D, hell they're still selling 720p here. I've seen other people cite market saturation as a reason for the increasing sales. But I'm not seeing it.
post #2021 of 2615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

Of course it's relevant! Say you want a new 1080p 50"/55" or 60"/65" plasma set, unless you want to buy a used set from someone or a leftover non 3D model from somewhere that may still have one. It's not like you have a lot of choices anymore to get a new 50"-65" plasma without any 3D support.

Panasonic, Samsung and LG make large (50" and larger) 1080P PDPs with no 3D support. Those are the three main sellers of PDPs. You haven't looked at their websites have you?

Quote:


No, probably not everyone. You can still have something like Direct TV with no HD at all. But even people with only off-air for programming, are watching at least some HDTV if their HDTV also has a built in off air HDTV tuner and they are watching any major off air networking programming. So in that case to get HDTV, it requires nothing more than a HDTV with a internal HDTV tuner and a antenna connection. Unlike 3D, which also requires not only a 3D capable TV, but also either cable or satellite TV programming with 3D, or a 3D Blu-ray player. As of yet, there is no free off air programming for 3D, and quite possibly never will be.

WASHINGTON, Aug. 15, 2011 --The Advanced Television Systems Committee Inc. (ATSC) has launched development of a three-dimensional (3D) broadcast TV standard that will provide methods for transmission of 3D-TV content to both fixed and mobile devices, the standards development organization announced today.

"The addition of 3D-TV over-the-air TV broadcast transmission is part of our ongoing effort to expand the capabilities of the ATSC suite of digital television standards," said ATSC President Mark Richer.


http://www.atsc.org/cms/
post #2022 of 2615
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Daddicted View Post

Where do you live that has emptied all 2D models? At least in my neck of the woods, retailers are still sporting a larger selection of 2D then 3D, hell they're still selling 720p here. I've seen other people cite market saturation as a reason for the increasing sales. But I'm not seeing it.

Did I say there were none to be found? NO, I did not! I said it was getting harder to find them, and yes there are a lot of cheaper sets that do not have it. As for 720p, I have news for you even some 720p plasmas have 3D support. And yes, the fact that there are even lower cost models available with 3D, is precisely why more 3D sets have been sold this year compared to last year. Not everyone that is buying a new set, is spending $4k+ or way higher, for the very top end type models


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Panasonic, Samsung and LG make large (50" and larger) 1080P PDPs with no 3D support. Those are the three main sellers of PDPs. You haven't looked at their websites have you?

See above. Again, I NEVER said that there was NO 2D only sets, only that the ones that were available, were very limited models. Not everyone wants to buy the cheapest set, just as they may not also want 3D on a more pricey set. Try buying something like a new 55" or 65" Panasonic VT30 model, or a new 70" Sharp Elite, without 3D, oh wait that's right. You can't!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

[i]WASHINGTON, Aug. 15, 2011 --The Advanced Television Systems Committee Inc. (ATSC) has launched development of a three-dimensional (3D) broadcast TV standard that will provide methods for transmission of 3D-TV content to both fixed and mobile devices, the standards development organization announced today.

"The addition of 3D-TV over-the-air TV broadcast transmission is part of our ongoing effort to expand the capabilities of the ATSC suite of digital television standards," said ATSC President Mark Richer.


Yawn....... No such thing is here yet, so that means it's not now available. And until it is, it's really nothing more than vaporware.
post #2023 of 2615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

Did I say there were none to be found? NO, I did not! I said it was getting harder to find them, and yes there are a lot of cheaper sets that do not have it. As for 720p, I have news for you even some 720p plasmas have 3D support. And yes, the fact that there are even lower cost models available with 3D, is precisely why more 3D sets have been sold this year compared to last year. Not everyone that is buying a new set, is spending $4k+ or way higher, for the very top end type models




See above. Again, I NEVER said that there was NO 2D only sets, only that the ones that were available, were very limited models. Not everyone wants to buy the cheapest set, just as they may not also want 3D on a more pricey set. Try buying something like a new 55" or 65" Panasonic VT30 model, or a new 70" Sharp Elite, without 3D, oh wait that's right. You can't!






Yawn....... No such thing is here yet, so that means it's not now available. And until it is, it's really nothing more than vaporware.

Why are you so emotional about this? It's odd.
post #2024 of 2615
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Daddicted View Post

Why are you so emotional about this? It's odd.

Says the person who has a user name of 3Daddicted.....

What's odd about the facts, other than you don't want to accept them as being facts?
post #2025 of 2615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

Says the person who has a user name of 3Daddicted.....

What's odd about the facts, other than you don't want to accept them as being facts?


We all have a bias, I just put mine on the front page. I like 3D, don't care much if you don't - that's your right.

But misinformation should be called out. Lee seems to have the facts taken care of quit well and I'm too lazy to invest any measure of real intellectual energy. But even so, the 3D opponents have failed to make a sound argument beyond "I don't like it because"
post #2026 of 2615
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Daddicted View Post

But even so, the 3D opponents have failed to make a sound argument beyond "I don't like it because"


And do you really think the people that are enamored with 3D, have done anything other than just say "I love it because"? Yeah like that's a real sound argument compared to someone saying that they don't like it, not! And of course you would like the posts that Lee makes no matter if they are factual or not, that is no surprise at all.
post #2027 of 2615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

Did I say there were none to be found? NO, I did not! I said it was getting harder to find them, and yes there are a lot of cheaper sets that do not have it. As for 720p, I have news for you even some 720p plasmas have 3D support. And yes, the fact that there are even lower cost models available with 3D, is precisely why more 3D sets have been sold this year compared to last year. Not everyone that is buying a new set, is spending $4k+ or way higher, for the very top end type models

See above. Again, I NEVER said that there was NO 2D only sets, only that the ones that were available, were very limited models. Not everyone wants to buy the cheapest set, just as they may not also want 3D on a more pricey set. Try buying something like a new 55" or 65" Panasonic VT30 model, or a new 70" Sharp Elite, without 3D, oh wait that's right. You can't!

Both LG and Samsung make top of the line 1080P large non 3D PDPs. Panasonic has made their very best VT series 3D. They are betting on 3DTV being a desired TV option. They are currently the best 3DTV AND the best HDTV you can buy. If you don't want a 3DTV then don't buy one. Simple as that. There are plenty to choose from.

Quote:


Yawn....... No such thing is here yet, so that means it's not now available. And until it is, it's really nothing more than vaporware.

I can see you are totally unfamiliar with television standards settings. You probably have no idea it took 8 years from the time HDTV was proposed to when the first prime time HD broadcasts went out over the air.

All I see are a bunch of opinionated statements that hold no water. You just don't want to admit you are wrong. It's OK - the facts do that nicely.
post #2028 of 2615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

And do you really think the people that are enamored with 3D, have done anything other than just say "I love it because"? Yeah like that's a real sound argument compared to someone saying that they don't like it, not! And of course you would like the posts that Lee makes no matter if they are factual or not, that is no surprise at all.

LOL! They ARE factual. I check them BEFORE I post. As opposed to the drivel you are posting which is nothing more then your jaded opinion. Like shooting fish in a barrel - that's how easy it is to disprove you.
post #2029 of 2615
Graphicguy - I bought the best picture quality TV I could find, it's only my good fortune that it was 3D capable, and my incredible luck that the emitter, glasses and 3D Bluray were bundled with it for free! I would have gotten the very same TV even if that was not included! You are happy with your TV's and don't forsee another purchase for 6-10 years... fine , when that time comes, I think you will find very little if any non 3D sets on the market (IMHO)... it is so easy and inexpensive for the manufacturers to include this, it's a no brainer for them!
Same thing goes for Bluray... many if not most homes have not made the leap from DVD to Bluray yet. When the time comes for those people to make that leap,how many Bluray players do you think will be available without such support? You could probably find the $99 Bluray at Walmart right now, but in short order, those will probably become extinct. What Bluray manufacturer would not include this feature that is inexpensive and easy for them to produce? Very few I'm sure. Bluray is slowly becoming the standard over DVD's simply because of the quality of the picture and the proliferation of 1080p sets currently on the market. The next Bluray (or in some cases, the first) most of us will be purchasing will have 3D capabilities, like it, want it , or not!
This stuff isn't just "trickling out"... check out the 3D movies threads here at AVSF and see for yourself what is happening.

Johnla - I must admit, your arguements are not convincing, and worse yet, you don't realize what you have put down actually reinforces the opposite of your opinion! Yes, people may have the equipment and ability to view 3D content and decide not to use it I'm sure. But your own statements give credit to how this is not just a fad! The title of this thread is fad vs here to stay. You may not like it, you may not want it, but everything you are saying leads to the conclusion it is here to stay!

I am not saying it's the best thing since sliced bread and peanutbutter, but I have enjoyed my 3D experiences in my home, limited as they have been at this point. I'm very happy to have that ability. I think most others will feel the same when it finally comes their way (thru upgrading and/or replacing their aging equipment). Those who are rabidly against such a thing (which seems to be the majority here) are unfortunately in for a rude awaking and disappointment I think.... but hey, they don't have to use this "fad" when it arrives in their home... just like they don't have to use indoor plumbing, electricity, heating, refridgeration, automobiles......
post #2030 of 2615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

They are selling more 3DTVs this year then they did last year. They are releasing more 3D BDs this year then they did last year. They are creating more 3D content this year then they did lst year. So how again is the technology "come and gone?"

+1

and to add to the comment about speculating that nothing will better a Kuro in the next 6-10 years

really?

I would say this years top of the line Panasonic and Samsung are painfully close...and they are a fraction of what the Kuro cost in its day

IMO...the Samsungs always had better color anyway..they just could not compete in black level

as for the added cost of 3D blu ray players and 3D blu ray discs

really?

BB had their Insignia 3D capable blu ray on sale last week for $83.00
Blu ray 3D movies are typically $3-5 more than their 2D counterpart...and many times includes a 2D copy of the movie as an added bonus


Warren
post #2031 of 2615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Both LG and Samsung make top of the line 1080P large non 3D PDPs.
.

I don't think that is an accurate statement

The mid line models of both manufacturers are now 3D capable

LG having both active and passive 3D available


Warren
post #2032 of 2615
I'm in the market for a 65+ set. Panasonic VT 30 seems to be the best picture quality out there right now. It only comes with 3 D included. I'm not the least interested in 3d. So, if in order to get the best picture quality, I have to go 3d, I will. Those glasses will disapear in the back of a closet.

Almost got a 55 inch set about a year ago at HH Gregg. The sales person tried to upsell me to an $800 more expensive 3D model. At that point I told him I would not mind taking the 3d if it cost me nothing extra. Looks like we've come to that point where it is just another feature.

If I had a good quality set I would not get a new tv just because of the 3d factor. I will also not pay extra for 3d content.

If Panasonic had a VT30 without 3d that sold for $800 less I would get that without thinking about it twice.

3D is here to stay because the industry wants it to stay. What that means in the end is that they'll end upeating the extra cost because evidently most consumers are not going to.
post #2033 of 2615
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

I don't think that is an accurate statement

The mid line models of both manufacturers are now 3D capable

LG having both active and passive 3D available


Warren

http://www.samsung.com/us/topic/our-smart-tvs

http://www.lg.com/us/tv-audio-video/...p?value=Plasma TV
post #2034 of 2615


again....as I said before

LG and Samsung's top of the line models are 3D

LG's top Led/LCD is the LW9800..it is 3D
top Plasma PZ850..it is 3D

Samsung's top Plasma and top LED/LCD is the D8000 series...both are 3D

please list their top model that is non 3D?


Warren
post #2035 of 2615
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigC208 View Post

I'm in the market for a 65+ set. Panasonic VT 30 seems to be the best picture quality out there right now. It only comes with 3 D included. I'm not the least interested in 3d. So, if in order to get the best picture quality, I have to go 3d, I will. Those glasses will disapear in the back of a closet.

Almost got a 55 inch set about a year ago at HH Gregg. The sales person tried to upsell me to an $800 more expensive 3D model. At that point I told him I would not mind taking the 3d if it cost me nothing extra. Looks like we've come to that point where it is just another feature.

If I had a good quality set I would not get a new tv just because of the 3d factor. I will also not pay extra for 3d content.

If Panasonic had a VT30 without 3d that sold for $800 less I would get that without thinking about it twice.

3D is here to stay because the industry wants it to stay. What that means in the end is that they'll end upeating the extra cost because evidently most consumers are not going to.


you always have to buy something extra..that you may not want..in the upper end models

Perfect example...120/240/480hz model LCD/LED's

some people hate it and turn it off.....but to buy one that didn't have it would result in decreased picture quality


Warren
post #2036 of 2615
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

again....as I said before

LG and Samsung's top of the line models are 3D

LG's top Led/LCD is the LW9800..it is 3D
top Plasma PZ850..it is 3D

Samsung's top Plasma and top LED/LCD is the D8000 series...both are 3D

please list their top model that is non 3D?


Warren

NEW! 59" Class (59.06" Diag.) Plasma 8000 Series Smart TV

Right from the link I posted. That is a non 3D model
post #2037 of 2615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

NEW! 59" Class (59.06" Diag.) Plasma 8000 Series Smart TV

Right from the link I posted. That is a non 3D model

seriously?

right from the product page..that I guess you didn't read

Captivating 2D & 3D in Full HD 1080p
Whether you are viewing a premium-quality 2D picture or seeing incredible 3D depth, images are breathtakingly real in Samsung Full HD. Enjoy superb 2D 1080p clarity with 600Hz subfield motion and deep rich blacks with Real Black Filter. Samsung 3D utilizes active shutter glasses which is the only way to experience 3D in Full HD 1080 (when coupled with a 3D source such as a Samsung 3D Blu-ray player or a Full HD broadcast from satellite or cable providers). Samsung 3D TVs also offer a unique feature that allows you to intensify your 2D viewing experience by upconverting it to immersive 3D
.


I have last years 8000 series plasma...the C8000

They DID NOT drop features in this years model

also here is the CNET review of this series TV...they tested the 64"...but its the same TV

Please notice the end of the article that speaks about the 3D glasses for this TV

http://www.samsung.com/us/article/ex...sion-pn64d8000

Warren
post #2038 of 2615
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

seriously?

right from the product page..that I guess you didn't read

Captivating 2D & 3D in Full HD 1080p
Whether you are viewing a premium-quality 2D picture or seeing incredible 3D depth, images are breathtakingly real in Samsung Full HD. Enjoy superb 2D 1080p clarity with 600Hz subfield motion and deep rich blacks with Real Black Filter. Samsung 3D utilizes active shutter glasses which is the only way to experience 3D in Full HD 1080 (when coupled with a 3D source such as a Samsung 3D Blu-ray player or a Full HD broadcast from satellite or cable providers). Samsung 3D TVs also offer a unique feature that allows you to intensify your 2D viewing experience by upconverting it to immersive 3D
.


I have last years 8000 series plasma...the C8000

They DID NOT drop features in this years model

also here is the CNET review of this series TV...they tested the 64"...but its the same TV

Please notice the end of the article that speaks about the 3D glasses for this TV

http://www.samsung.com/us/article/ex...sion-pn64d8000

Warren

You are right - I didn't read it. Went by the category seperation of Smart, 3D and Thin Bezel. My bad.
post #2039 of 2615
I'm quite happy with 3d ! I just picked up a Sony es series avr for a pittance from the Sony outlet because it won't pass 3d. I don't see 3d at home anytime soon. I've a nice panny plasma and the 4400es is an excellent receiver. If 3d had not come along I'd not have had this opportunity. Most folks bought because of the digital conversion not because they are like avs forum people. You will sell 3d to the must have guy, not th e mass market....but some companies thought that there would be another turnover. Not in today's economy.

For now I'll enjoy a 308 dollar top flight receiver because of 3d.
post #2040 of 2615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post



I can see you are totally unfamiliar with television standards settings. You probably have no idea it took 8 years from the time HDTV was proposed to when the first prime time HD broadcasts went out over the air.

All I see are a bunch of opinionated statements that hold no water. You just don't want to admit you are wrong. It's OK - the facts do that nicely.

Again, it is NOT here now! It is nothing more than just talk for now.
As for facts, I seem to remember years ago someone stated that everyone would have flying cars, personal jet packs or personal hovercrafts for transportation. Hmmm, maybe all these predictions of long ago, will finally show up before free off-air 3D......

http://www.manolith.com/2009/07/30/p...-technologies/

And I don't think anyone here has posted more personal opinionated statements and twisting of facts than you have!
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