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Magnavox 2160A 6 hour loop start

post #1 of 28
5/14/10 at 3:24pm
Thread Starter 
When should the Magnavox 2160A 6 hour loop start? I thought it was automatic as soon as you turn the HDVR on but I have to go up a channel and down a channel or to the setup page or DTV and back to analog before it starts.

I have done several resets of differing types but the loop just will not start when I turn the HDVR on.

I did the firmware update and the problem still exists.

I am asking so I can decide to return this to walmart for a new one or not.


Thor
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post #2 of 28
5/14/10 at 4:05pm
My original 2160 and several others also have to change channels once (to a new channel) after turning the machine on to "activate" the autostart recording.

See Note 1 here for more details on using AR.

NOTE: The unit must be on the HDD drive or the menu won't appear and you'll think AR isn't working. Make sure you've selected the HDD drive before pressing PAUSE!
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post #3 of 28
5/14/10 at 5:53pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

My original 2160 and several others also have to change channels once (to a new channel) after turning the machine on to "activate" the autostart recording.

Damn, I actually read through your FAQ pretty good before buying, it must have slipped my mind.
This is the H2160MW9A and not the original 2160, unless you are indicating the Funai HDVR 2160 series in general?

So what do you think? Take it back and get another to see if it has this "bug"? If I take it back I can get another at the new price and save like $30, before they are all gone. BTW, standard shipping is 97 cents even at the new walmart price. I just now checked. That may be a standard "feature" at walmart online.


Thanks for the reply,
Thor
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post #4 of 28
5/14/10 at 6:00pm
I don't think it's a "bug" but just the way it works on both the original 2160 and 2160A.

When you first turn your 2160A on, you can press Pause and if the AR screen doesn't pop up, change channels once and it'll start up.

NOTE: The unit must be on the HDD drive or the menu won't appear and you'll think AR isn't working. Make sure you've selected the HDD drive before pressing PAUSE!
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post #5 of 28
5/15/10 at 10:00am
I have a 2160A, and if I want to watch a show later, but not record it, like news, etc., I just turn it on at the appointed time-- I dont bother to do anything else (even turn on the tv) -- then later, I turn on the tv and wind back the 2160A to the start to watch. Is that what you're talking about? If it's already ON the same channel when it was last turned off I dont have to do anything (like change the channel) to activate it -- I suppose it it were left in a different state (menu, for example) then it wouldn't work when first turned on. If you're talking about recording for six hrs, that's a different story, but as for watching the show I missed ... I do it almost every night, and all I do preliminarily is turn on the 2160 (preset to the station I plan to watch later). Have I been doing it wrong all this time?
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post #6 of 28
5/15/10 at 2:16pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by artwire View Post

I have a 2160A, and if I want to watch a show later, but not record it, like news, etc., I just turn it on at the appointed time-- I dont bother to do anything else (even turn on the tv) -- then later, I turn on the tv and wind back the 2160A to the start to watch. Is that what you're talking about? If it's already ON the same channel when it was last turned off I dont have to do anything (like change the channel) to activate it -- I suppose it it were left in a different state (menu, for example) then it wouldn't work when first turned on. If you're talking about recording for six hrs, that's a different story, but as for watching the show I missed ... I do it almost every night, and all I do preliminarily is turn on the 2160 (preset to the station I plan to watch later). Have I been doing it wrong all this time?

Your 2610A is working as I would expect. I am indeed talking about the auto record 6 hour loop, not a 6 hour timer recording.

If I turn my 2160A on, just turn it on with it already set to a particular channel, and then an hour later go to look at what was on half an hour ago I will see what is on now and the auto recording loop has not started. I have to change the channel or something else as mentioned above to get the loop to start recording.

I don't know if the firmware update included the entire firmware or if it was only a patch. If it was only a patch then it seems like there is an error in this firmware. If the update included the entire firmware the possibly there is a hardware issue. Something has to tell the 2160A it is on and start the auto loop, possibly the tuner? It could be something like a bad diode, cap, chip, cpu i/o line but I don't have the service manual to properly troubleshoot such events.

So, if you don't mind, what's your date of manufacture, firmware version, exact model?

I am still on the fence as far as "putting up with it" or trying to get a 2610A that works as it should.


Thor
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post #7 of 28
5/15/10 at 2:29pm
Of the five H2160A refurbs that passed thru my hands (bought and tested for family and friends, one I kept myself), 3 start the recording buffer as soon as they are powered on and 2 operate like wajo's: they need to have the pause button or channel buttons hit to start the buffer going. I've had relatives argue with each other over how this works, it took awhile to figure out there are slight differences between units.
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post #8 of 28
5/15/10 at 6:58pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

I did some tests w/my original 2160, which I thought always needed a channel-change "goose" to start AR.

I've done just enough tests to be dangerous, but it seems like it *might* have something to do with the ORDER in which the 2160/A and the TV are turned on.

So far, it seems when I turn my 2160 on first, then my TV, the odds of AR not starting are either 100% or pretty high (not enough tests but tired of turning my unit on and off).

It might be that, if you turn your 2160/A on first (my old habit) and then turn the TV on AFTER the 2160/A tunes a channel and shows the # in the front panel, the AR *might* not activate?

I seemed to always come up activated if my TV was already on, then I turned my 2160 on.

That makes some sense: if it can't display a channel immediately, does it delay or negate an op like AR?

The certainty of this is highly suspect just cuz not enough tests of all possible combos, but others could try turning their TVs on 1st, then the 2160/A and see if any diff.? Not sure if the TV has to be "full-up" and showing a channel... my TV was showing a channel when I turned my 2160 on.

There might also be a HDMI/no-HDMI component cuz I tried both but not enough times to tell a definitive diff.

I waited ~3 sec before I pressed PAUSE to see if the AR menu appeared.

Ok, I am hooked up to a video switch. I come out of the HDVR s-video and into my analog TV s-video. I have the HDVR RF feed-through going to another magnavox VHS-DVR. I do not use HDMI as my TV doesn't have it.

I just tried with the DVR powered on and receiving a channel, same results as prior.

Pressing pause doesn't start the loop for me. Channel up/down or direct entry, go to the settings menu,Digital back to analog are the only things that start the auto loop going.

I wish there was a place to download the service manual for this thing.


Thor
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post #9 of 28
5/15/10 at 7:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thor__ View Post

I just tried with the DVR powered on and receiving a channel, same results as prior.

Pressing pause doesn't start the loop for me. Channel up/down or direct entry, go to the settings menu,Digital back to analog are the only things that start the auto loop going.

I don't understand... the TV has to be on first, then turn the DVR on. Is that what you did?

Pressing Pause is not to start the buffer, it's just an easy way to check if the buffer is running.

NOTE: The unit must be on the HDD drive or the menu won't appear and you'll think AR isn't working. Make sure you've selected the HDD drive before pressing PAUSE!
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post #10 of 28
5/15/10 at 8:31pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

I don't understand... the TV has to be on first, then turn the DVR on. Is that what you did?

Pressing Pause is not to start the buffer, it's just an easy way to check if the buffer is running.

The TV(non-HDMI) is on first always.

I was letting it be known how I connect the output of the HDRV to the TV, just in case it may have made a difference.

I should have started the entire post with enough information.

My setup is Cox cable(coax) in to a (Cox supplied and accepted)splitter, one leg goes to my analog TV and the other leg goes to the 2160A(I call this an HDVDR because of the hard drive). From the 2160A feed through I go to a magnavox DVR, this is all RF coax.

The output from the 2160A and magnavox DVR are from their respective s-video connectors to an active video switch box. The output of the active video switch box goes to the s-video input on my analog TV. My analog TV has three inputs, composite, component, s-video along with the RF coax.

2160A operation, TV is on and recieving a channel, I turn on the 2160A and change the TV to input 1 (the active video switch input). It doesn't matter if the TV is on input 1 or not.
The 2160 turns on, tries to load a DVD(a DVD is NOT in the tray) while displaying the magnavox logo, proceeds to (analog) display of the last channel selected before turned off prior.
After this initialization the Auto record loop or buffer is NOT started and does NOT start without my intervention using one of the methods mentioned above or in the FAQ.

I understand the use of pause or replay is only to check if the loop has started or not and it had not started.

I hope that helps to clear any confusion caused by my initial lack of information.


Thor
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post #11 of 28
5/16/10 at 8:14pm
Maybe mine is working because I'm watching a QAM channel through the internal tuner with a split coax from the wall. It may work differently when the reception is coming from another source or through a switch box? The latter may require some kind of extra signal or channel set? ALso, I have turned off HDMI control since it was driving me crazy, so for me, it doesn't matter if the tv is on or off ... you can still start the program loop (you just cant see it). When I'm ready to watch, I turn on the tv and rewind to where I want to start watching. Are you watching analog or digital channel on the 2160? (we only have digital, now) so it may (?) work differently if you are on the analog tuner on the 2160. Also, are you 'on' the HD side when you're doing it. It may be looking for the DVD if you have disc vs drive preselected on the 2160.

Mine are both 2160A...one was a refurb, one a 'new' purchase from Wally, and I honestly cant tell them apart.I'm pretty sure both were dated May 09 and I have not done the firmware updates on any of my 2160As yet.
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post #12 of 28
5/16/10 at 10:06pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by artwire View Post

Maybe mine is working because I'm watching a QAM channel through the internal tuner with a split coax from the wall. It may work differently when the reception is coming from another source or through a switch box? The latter may require some kind of extra signal or channel set? ALso, I have turned off HDMI control since it was driving me crazy, so for me, it doesn't matter if the tv is on or off ... you can still start the program loop (you just cant see it). When I'm ready to watch, I turn on the tv and rewind to where I want to start watching. Are you watching analog or digital channel on the 2160? (we only have digital, now) so it may (?) work differently if you are on the analog tuner on the 2160. Also, are you 'on' the HD side when you're doing it. It may be looking for the DVD if you have disc vs drive preselected on the 2160.

Mine are both 2160A...one was a refurb, one a 'new' purchase from Wally, and I honestly cant tell them apart.I'm pretty sure both were dated May 09 and I have not done the firmware updates on any of my 2160As yet.

Well, we have the same coax input scenario , like I said above I go to a splitter and then directly to the TV on one leg and the 2160A on the other. I don't have anything HDMI. I am using the analog tuner on the 2160A, not the digital but it is a simple matter to test. The active switch I mention just selects one of multiple inputs to output to the television through composite or s-video, I chose s-video as it looked better. The loop /should/ start with no output connected at all, the presence of valid output connection can be tested for.

You brought up yet another bug , if it is one, in that I have the hard drive selected as default, I was on the hard drive when I shut the 2160A off that is. The 2160 shouldn't be looking for a DVD in the drive when it powers on if the DVD drive is not selected, it shouldn't be seeking the heads any way as the DVD drive should be able to tell it if there is a platter in there or not, spin up and set a bit or byte so the 2160A can read it.

They way I would program the HDVR for turn on would be poll the DVD drive, check for disc insterted bit set
Yes, load DVD
No, check last program operation and continue.
Check tuner, channel available ?
No
Don't start the auto loop, display error.
Yes
Display channel, start auto loop.

You would have to add a bunch more stuff like check for timer program and such.

I am still holding that this is a hardware or firmware error and not "just how it works".

I will test with digital selected on power on and see if the loop starts. After that I will try a factory reset with one of the skip codes. I have already tried unplugging for a couple of hours but it remembered its channel settings and clock so I don't think that will be much use.

Thanks for the reply,
Thor
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post #13 of 28
5/16/10 at 10:14pm
Thread Starter 
This 2160A was manufactured in November 2009. This is a new HDVR and not a refurb.


Thor
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post #14 of 28
5/17/10 at 1:44am
Kind of O/T but I temporarily moved my Mag to another TV today. It was on an NBC channel when I hooked it up. I then switched to my baseball game. During a commercial break I set up a recording for later that night. Since I don't yet know which menus will stop the buffer I decided to try backing up. It did back up. In fact it eventually backed up to the NBC channel!
I will have to try to duplicate this. I just don't understand how that could work that way.
If this is common knowledge I apologize for my ignorance. Just in the past every dvr I had needed to be on the channel to rewind.
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post #15 of 28
5/17/10 at 3:57am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by atti View Post

Kind of O/T but I temporarily moved my Mag to another TV today. It was on an NBC channel when I hooked it up. I then switched to my baseball game. During a commercial break I set up a recording for later that night. Since I don't yet know which menus will stop the buffer I decided to try backing up. It did back up. In fact it eventually backed up to the NBC channel!
I will have to try to duplicate this. I just don't understand how that could work that way.
If this is common knowledge I apologize for my ignorance. Just in the past every dvr I had needed to be on the channel to rewind.

When you change channels the loop will record the new channel. The loop started on NBC and kept going on the new channel the game was on, the loop follows your channel changes.

Easiest way to restart the loop is to go from digital to analog or the other way around. More can be found here,

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=7745


Thor
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post #16 of 28
6/4/10 at 6:31am
Okay, just another update from me in this 'official' loop thread. I thought my AR was working fine, then discovered that there was a DVD in the tray, which I thought might have been the reason it WAS working, so tried it without the dvd and then it appeared that AR was "broken." (pre-firmware update) After subsequent testing, now I'm thinking it was user -error. The other night I think I accidentally dumped the buffer by clicking the titles menu. I also discovered another way that the AR seems to NOT be working on a machine where it works perfectly. Here's my mistake -- maybe it'll apply to your situation, too . Because there had been a disk in the tray previously while I had been finalizing, the 2160 was left in DVD mode (not HD) so there was no buffer when I turned it on again. AR does begin (pressing pause brings up the top blue menu with the HD icon) IF the hard drive is 'on' .... but if the 2160 is accidentally left on DVD (after formatting, finalizing, etc) it does nothing. There is no buffer and nothing to rewind to , so I was randomly clicking buttons with nothing happening.


Final result seems to be that AR works, but it has to be on HD to engage (duh). (there was a white square icon showing at the bottom, that I mistook as the HDD icon, when the DVD mode was on, and that may be how I got confused. Presumably changing channel helps, but you also have to be on the HD not the DVD mode in order for it to take.

This is not the first time DVD mode switch has bitten me.... sometimes I forget that you have to manually return to harddrive after finalizing. I just never ran into it while trying to AR, so it didn't come to mind and I spent quite a few minutes puzzling over why the machine that used to work no longer does.

Mine is working now. Of course, your milage may vary, but suggest you double check that HDD mode is selected on the remote , too -- just in case
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post #17 of 28
6/4/10 at 7:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by artwire View Post

Okay, just another update from me in this 'official' loop thread. I thought my AR was working fine, then discovered that there was a DVD in the tray, which I thought might have been the reason it WAS working, so tried it without the dvd and then it appeared that AR was "broken." (pre-firmware update) After subsequent testing, now I'm thinking it was user -error. The other night I think I accidentally dumped the buffer by clicking the titles menu. I also discovered another way that the AR seems to NOT be working on a machine where it works perfectly. Here's my mistake -- maybe it'll apply to your situation, too . Because there had been a disk in the tray previously while I had been finalizing, the 2160 was left in DVD mode (not HD) so there was no buffer when I turned it on again. AR does begin (pressing pause brings up the top blue menu with the HD icon) IF the hard drive is 'on' .... but if the 2160 is accidentally left on DVD (after formatting, finalizing, etc) it does nothing. There is no buffer and nothing to rewind to , so I was randomly clicking buttons with nothing happening.

Unfortunately, I don't think this is true.

I can switch my original 2160 to DVD drive and it keeps buffering, it's just the buffer menu that can't be activated to show that buffering. You have to have the unit on HDD drive to bring up the buffer menu.

Note to others: IF you happen to have left your machine on the DVD drive, then turn it on, you'll think the machine isn't buffering because the menu won't appear as long as the machine is on the DVD drive!

You can test this by making sure the buffer is working and noting the total time in the AR menu, switch to DVD drive which changes the on-screen menu to DVD type, get rid of menu, stay on the DVD for a short time, switch back to the HDD drive, press PAUSE and you should see a total time longer than when you left it, indicating that the buffer continued thru the drive switch.

Disclaimer: This is not to suggest there aren't machines out there that might not start buffering on power up.
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post #18 of 28
6/4/10 at 7:58am
I'll check it again when I get home, Wajo. It may have been buffering when I first turned on the machine (when it was left on DVD), but I couldn't access the menu (which I thought would confirm that it was doing the AR) so I thought it wasn't working. It didn't let me back up using << nor did it let me pause, but I didn't try then switching to HD and then << cause at that point I wasn't thinking along those lines. Will try again later to revise my "findings".

But, I'm glad it's working, even if inconsistently. I think it's probably good to just switch channel automatically, then switch back if you are planning to AR without turning on the tv to check. That way all bases are covered . There's definitely an X factor as to why it sometimes works and sometimes doesn't but in my case, user error is a definite possibility
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post #19 of 28
6/4/10 at 8:14am
I just posted these comments relating to this thread on another thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post18729424

Quote:
Originally Posted by Compubooth View Post

This morning I thought I had an AR problem but I really didn't. Each day, I continue to check to see if I find any AR issues. Before turning TV on this morning, I turned 2160A on. In a few minutes I turned TV on and immediately checked to see if AR started by pressing pause button. The display did not change from Live TV as I expected, in other words, I thought, "Uh oh, AR didn't start!". Then I remembered that last night before turning off everything, I had done a high speed dub so 2160A was in DVD mode. I pressed HDD button and then pause button and display changed to show AR had started (more importantly, it started from the time I had initially turned the 2160A on 10 minutes earlier).
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post #20 of 28
6/4/10 at 10:21am
yep, mine was exactly like that too, Compubooth. It records back to the start, even when on DVD setting, you just cant see it unless you return to HDD (and dont touch any critical buttons in the mean time) I made the mistake of clicking around and probably inadvertently dumped the buffer by selecting the title menu, because nothing was working and I could not see that I had AR engaged ( because the machine was still in DVD mode.) For some reason I always forget about the DVD mode switch, probably because I finalize so rarely, and tend to do it in bulk. Need to remember to manually switch back to HDD when I'm done...
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post #21 of 28
6/4/10 at 4:50pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Unfortunately, I don't think this is true.

I can switch my original 2160 to DVD drive and it keeps buffering, it's just the buffer menu that can't be activated to show that buffering. You have to have the unit on HDD drive to bring up the buffer menu.

Note to others: IF you happen to have left your machine on the DVD drive, then turn it on, you'll think the machine isn't buffering because the menu won't appear as long as the machine is on the DVD drive!

You can test this by making sure the buffer is working and noting the total time in the AR menu, switch to DVD drive which changes the on-screen menu to DVD type, get rid of menu, stay on the DVD for a short time, switch back to the HDD drive, press PAUSE and you should see a total time longer than when you left it, indicating that the buffer continued thru the drive switch.

Disclaimer: This is not to suggest there aren't machines out there that might not start buffering on power up.

If I recall correctly isn't the DVD menu green? I mean the upper bar. I am certain the HD menu is blue.

I am still waiting on my replacement delivery, not able to test anything further.


Thor
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post #22 of 28
6/4/10 at 4:59pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by artwire View Post

I'll check it again when I get home, Wajo. It may have been buffering when I first turned on the machine (when it was left on DVD), but I couldn't access the menu (which I thought would confirm that it was doing the AR) so I thought it wasn't working. It didn't let me back up using << nor did it let me pause, but I didn't try then switching to HD and then << cause at that point I wasn't thinking along those lines. Will try again later to revise my "findings".

But, I'm glad it's working, even if inconsistently. I think it's probably good to just switch channel automatically, then switch back if you are planning to AR without turning on the tv to check. That way all bases are covered . There's definitely an X factor as to why it sometimes works and sometimes doesn't but in my case, user error is a definite possibility


In my case I have never played a DVD in this 2160A. When I power off it is in hard drive mode and comes on hard drive mode.
As stated before, the only thing that starts the AR buffer for me is a channel change, setup menu, or have a cd or dvd in the drive. I was using a cd with a single audio track but switched to a finalized blank DVD. An audio cd tends to make a bit of a wracket that was unsettling, like it was seeking a track for more than a minute.


Thor
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post #23 of 28
6/4/10 at 7:38pm
To keep information in one area, here are the links to my posts concerning the problem with AR not starting automatically...

They are listed in the order posted:

Possible fix for non-auto-starting AR...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=9461

Cool...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=9483

factory pressed music CD works too...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=9495

Wrote Funai support...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=9541

Track AR "anomaly" down...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=9552

move my posts?
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=9574

I will post in this thread from now on...

-----------------------------------------------------------

I did get some feedback from Funai Support:

Quote:


From: "Reyes Montemayor"

Thank you for your inquiry,

We appreciate your response in our product. We will be running tests here at our location. Once we come back with the same results, it will be forward to our QA department.

Case ID: 4203514

Reyes Montemayor
Customer Support
Funai Service Corporation
2200 Spiegel Dr.
Groveport, Ohio 43125

Phone: 1-888-290-0871
Fax: 614-409-3511
rmontemayor@funaiservice.com
Website: www.funaiservice.com

It seems as though they may be looking into it...

If anyone wants to report their problem with AR not starting automatically, it might be good to use my CASE ID: 4203514 and address to rmontemayor@funaiservice.com...

This will help to keep all info we send, together...
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post #24 of 28
6/5/10 at 8:26am
Wonder if it's a manufacturing date issue? All my old ones are from the same vintage ( May 09) .. the new one just arrived, and I'm guessing it'll be a later model, since others have reported getting Fall 09 machines. I will test AR as well as the usual introductory tests and report back if it doesn't work. (yours is dated November, right?)


EDIT ... it wasn't as new as I'd hoped, but it's new enough to mess up the AR. My new one is July 09 ... AR does NOT work without switching the source, DTV/TV, or channel.
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post #25 of 28
6/5/10 at 4:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by artwire View Post

Wonder if it's a manufacturing date issue... (yours is dated November, right?)... My new one is July 09 ... AR does NOT work without switching the source, DTV/TV, or channel.

Yup... mine was new from Walmart.com... manufactured November 2009...

You say above that your older 2160As auto-record correctly...
Do you power them on in HDD mode with no DVD/CD in the drive?
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post #26 of 28
6/5/10 at 7:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bizarro_Stormy View Post

Yup... mine was new from Walmart.com... manufactured November 2009...

You say above that your older 2160As auto-record correctly...
Do you power them on in HDD mode with no DVD/CD in the drive?

yep, the one from walmart and two refurbs from J & R all auto-record correctly in HDD with nothing in the DVD/CD tray. (May 2009 ) Most of the time I dont even bother to turn on the tv til I come back later to watch.

This latest refurb, manufactured in July 09, does not AR when you first turn it on, but works once you change DTV/TV, SOURCE, or channel. I haven't done any firmware updates.
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post #27 of 28
6/5/10 at 10:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by artwire View Post

This latest refurb, manufactured in July 09, does not AR when you first turn it on, but works once you change DTV/TV, SOURCE, or channel. I haven't done any firmware updates.

Same here. Mine, also Jul 09, does not AR upon first powering on. I'm afraid I didn't pay close attention to whether it started automatically before performing the FW update. Since the issue rose to prominence during the last few days, I did start checking to see if it did or not (wasn't too keen on the drive running so much anyways, so it doesn't really bother me).
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post #28 of 28
6/6/10 at 10:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westly-C View Post

Same here. Mine, also Jul 09, does not AR upon first powering on. I'm afraid I didn't pay close attention to whether it started automatically before performing the FW update. Since the issue rose to prominence during the last few days, I did start checking to see if it did or not (wasn't too keen on the drive running so much anyways, so it doesn't really bother me).

Hmmmm.... d'ya think it's a "feature"? That never occurred to me...
(keeping it from ARing to the loop until you ask it to -- is that an improvement? Maybe so... )
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