Looking to upgrade some cables (ICs or Speaker wire) - Page 23

lmao, Im nervous about it

I started measuring my new waveguide yesterday. comparing only the JPS speaker wire vs my low cost 12 AWG wire. Impulse sweeps of the waveguide/CD has been done...I will post later.

I will try to listen to my other set of ribbon designs later with the JPS wire.

Huh? They seem to have high praise for those who have measured them and have built a few speakers. Geddes waveguides which are the best in the business period, do not look different. No need to post here you can post in my DIY thread if you want to explain your point. The thread is here
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post18768297


Either way, the response should change between the two speaker wires?

$10 speaker wire vs $2K speaker wire, what did the $2K speaker wire do to the response, phase, distortion, decay??? I will have to re run the tests because the answer is a "not so" surprising NOTHING. I still have to run the woofer measurements too?


extended listening tests coming next but Im already disappointed there isnt a "wow, that is far superior"

Nope, didnt post it because I didnt know what I would use. Here it is......

Notebook running Vista
ARTA measurement software.
HOLM measurement software.
Behringer ECM8000 measurement mic (professional calibration)
M-audio USB mobilepre sound card
NAD T-175 pre/pro
Outlaw M2200 monoblock amp.
RCA connection from USB card to front input on NAD. (Monster RCA IC)
RCA connection from NAD to T-175 (Monster RCA IC)

Speakers, new build, Tweeter is a waveguide with BMS4550 compression drivers.

Speaker wire test...Impulse Sweeps using ARTA and HOLM.

Speaker wire (Acoustic Research 12 AWG) from PE.
vs
JPS superconductor 3 speaker wire.

Tweeters tests show zero changes in the response, zero changes in the phase or impulse. Working still on accurate CSDs, Need to make sure things are quiet and still in the room....harder to do sometimes with kdis and Dog bugging me.

That is 100% not true. I will report exactly what I find.

As for just plugging them in. I have a 1 year old and 3 year old. Its almost impossible to get time up in the HT room believe it or not. Its easier just to work/play online with a notebook on my lap in their play room then going anywhere else. I leave and they follow.....Its not all that easy these days to do much in terms of testing.

Yes, Im trying to do more measurements before I post everything. I know the drill.

Its a no win situation for either side really

Joe and I have been emailing back and forth having a discussion. I will put ALL cables he sent me into play next, I should have measurements posted by the end of the week. Along with subjective listening tests.

IF you know any of my opinions you would know that Im not that neutral. I have been involved with many tests through the years starting back in University when I had 4 engineering roomates (I was in Mathematics). We had a so called audiophile who bragged about the quality of his setup all the time, We would roll our eyes because who cared really, he couldn't pick up chicks anyways and that is all that matter in University Anyways, we swapped his cables out with RS stuff. He never noticed for several days and he only notices because he moved his equipment.

I have also done DBTs in the past to try and win money. My roomate loved to do audio tests and bet money on who could hear the difference. Fun stuff!!

I stopped all things audio for the longest time, too many other fun hobbies out there but in the past 4 years I went heavily back into it (My wife wanted me home much more, I travelled a lot before kids). Im even building speakers now.

Conclusion, Im not that neutral.

Of course saying all that I just wish hundreds of these silly threads boasting about dramatic changes would just for once have some sort of measurements showing those differences. Trust me if someone heard better bass then the measurements would reflect the difference.

What are my goals? I want placebo enduced nirvana I also would like to see something different in the measurements. It would be nice to say, Yes $2K cables improve the measured response.

Is my setup HiFi enough? My speakers would cost over $8K per pair, the nad/outlaw combo is over $2K so my setup cost more then everyone accept maybe around 2% of the audiophile population. This means if exotic cables are not going to change my setup they are not going to change 98% of all other setups either, unless they are doing something wrong to start with.

Will my conclusions matter in the big picture? Of course not but its nice to have done a testinstead of constantly posting "asking others for measurements" without ever doing it myself.

+1.....Its a lot about nothing. I thought long and hard about posting even had some PMs figuring out a path to take.

Well here it is.......

Joe said listen for awhile and I have been (when I have time).

The measurements didnt change, no impulse response change, no distortion change, no wavelet/CSD changes.

This project definitely lost its excitement when I was not even able to hear subjective differences (I really wanted that big difference!!).

If people are waiting for some incredible post changing the current view on cables you are going to be waiting a long time. What would happen if eithe conclusion was posted, not a lot would happen...its the same old stuff.

Is my system not high end enough?? Well that would mean that 99% of all other systems are not high end enough either so maybe 99% of all people should stop wasting time thinking about expensive cables.

Do I not do critical listening? I worked on that one....I put my setup in my office (where I spend a lot of time) with my best speakers and picked CDs that I love over the years that I thought would really show the differences like Pink Floyd and Rush. I even picked up some classical crap and listened....until I felt like I should shove toothpicks up my nails

Maybe Im doing the subjective uncontrolled listening in reverse and I have convinced myself there is no change in sound? People can conclude that if they need to pick one side, I suspect some will but I tried to find a difference in the sound through measurements too and there wasnt any.

My conclusions.....

Cables holds nothing in differences compared to even a slight alteration of an XO, a change in a delay of a driver in an active XO. A Change in my overall speaker response slope. IF people think there are differences in cables alone they simply do not understand what REAL changes can do to a setup. They have no real control over their setup either and all they have is subjective belief that maybe cable X will help them out. People searching for change should instead get full control of their setup and then tweak as needed. The differences are real.

Everyone can just call it a non-conclusion if they like I do not really care since I have too many other projects on the go. I have a brand new sub to get going (the LMS5400 /w 4000Watts in a 4 cuft box) and I have a brand new full range speaker build. Now Im planning a re-build of my HT room for 2012 with monster Folded horn designs.


My last point though (its an important one!!!) is that Joe S. is simply awesome. I recommend his services to anyone looking for very well built cables (I'm not a fan of the purple color though ). They are far superior in build quality to any other cables I have purchased over the years. The high end banana clips on the supercondutor 3 are impressive (Im trying to find them alone online) but that speaker wire is a bitch to work if tight spaces exist because its a very rigid cable, someone else would have to explain what its made of, I really do not want to search at this time.

Thanks Joe for all your help!!