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Infinite Baffle - 2 Fi IB3-18s - Attic Manifold- - Page 2

post #31 of 62
5/21/10 at 12:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCaboNow View Post

Not trying to highjack here but this thread had got me thinking. I have a
5'x6'x20' storage room directly behind my screen wall. I was just getting ready to build a couple of 2' cubed sealed subs with 18" FI drivers and a EP4000. (I have not bought the hardware yet)

How much difference in performance for an IB setup compared to two subs like these?

Do it! You won't look back


Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas-W View Post

This provides some rough data, unfortunately sims aren't able to differentiate sound quality differences....

+1. I'm running 4 x AE IB15's and modeling them with my EP2500 pushing them it says I'll be way past Xmax on the low stuff... I've clipped the EP2500 into them on "Bass I Love You" a number of times without them tearing themselves apart though (warning - attempt at your own risk! )
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post #32 of 62
5/21/10 at 12:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by onesquin View Post

You could definitely get away with a smaller amp to save a few bucks. Try mocking the builds up in WinISD to compare.

Yeah, I am definately going to look further into this. I think your design would work in my setup only my port would be going between wall studs not a ceiling but same concept. Do you get much vibration into your ceiling joists? I know it's in your attic but can you tell at all? Mine would be in the basement and I wonder how much would be transmitted up into the house and bedrooms two stories up?
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post #33 of 62
5/21/10 at 12:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lennon_68 View Post

Do it! You won't look back




+1. I'm running 4 x AE IB15's and modeling them with my EP2500 pushing them it says I'll be way past Xmax on the low stuff... I've clipped the EP2500 into them on "Bass I Love You" a number of times without them tearing themselves apart though (warning - attempt at your own risk! )

What's the difference between the ep2500 and 4000? They seem to be similar priced?
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post #34 of 62
5/21/10 at 1:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCaboNow View Post

What's the difference between the ep2500 and 4000? They seem to be similar priced?

Near as everyone can tell they're identical (just a rebadge). Note, you can go with a cheaper amp but you may find, as many have, that the amount of $$ saved ends up being small compared with the amount of watts you give up as compared to the Behringer amps.
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post #35 of 62
5/22/10 at 6:09am
Thread Starter 
Quote:


I think your design would work in my setup only my port would be going between wall studs not a ceiling but same concept. Do you get much vibration into your ceiling joists?

I don't notice much more vibration than my old sub. The opposing drivers offers mechanical cancellation and all I notice is lots of air moving and not much else. My old sub vibrated my daughters floor in her room about 50' away. My floor literally moves during some scenes. Not sure if having it wall mounted instead of ceiling mounted would change this.
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post #36 of 62
5/22/10 at 10:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by onesquin View Post

I don't notice much more vibration than my old sub. The opposing drivers offers mechanical cancellation and all I notice is lots of air moving and not much else. My old sub vibrated my daughters floor in her room about 50' away. My floor literally moves during some scenes. Not sure if having it wall mounted instead of ceiling mounted would change this.

Thanks for the response! Is there much sound leakage into your attic?
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post #37 of 62
5/22/10 at 1:50pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Is there much sound leakage into your attic?

There is the backwave up there but it is not very loud outside my house and my kids still sleep through the most intense scenes played much louder than my old sub. My attic is really large so that might have something to do with it?
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post #38 of 62
5/22/10 at 2:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by onesquin View Post

There is the backwave up there but it is not very loud outside my house and my kids still sleep through the most intense scenes played much louder than my old sub. My attic is really large so that might have something to do with it?

I have a monster attic, the peaks are 20feet up and its about 80 ft by 70ft.....You can fit a good size house in my attic

There is as much displacement out the back of the woofers as there is the front so its the same loudness in the attic. Sound traveling into other rooms depends on how close they are to the drivers and how good they are insulated.
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post #39 of 62
5/22/10 at 5:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

I have a monster attic, the peaks are 20feet up and its about 80 ft by 70ft.....You can fit a good size house in my attic

There is as much displacement out the back of the woofers as there is the front so its the same loudness in the attic. Sound traveling into other rooms depends on how close they are to the drivers and how good they are insulated.

Ah, that could be problematic for my setup.
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post #40 of 62
5/22/10 at 5:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCaboNow View Post

Ah, that could be problematic for my setup.

My attic is standard attic for 1 floor 3 bd 2 bath house and I'm fine.

Go IB I love mine and the wife appeal of not having huge tubes or boxes in the living room was a huge plus.
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post #41 of 62
5/22/10 at 7:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

People here are well aware of the potential of an IB, no need to sell it

We are all drunk on the horn stuff now.

I have been eyeing that 2x12 GTO TH design over at diyaudio to balance out my viewing area with my THT. Everyone besides me can close their eye's and not tell where the sub is except me. The only problem is that the wife said no more speakers after I finish up my QSC-2150 clone. Don't know how I am going to sneak in a 6 foot tall subwoofer.


Chucky I look forward to you IB build, I will get around to posting my QSC clone thread when I get the drivers and the rest of the parts. I build the front three as sealed boxes.
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post #42 of 62
5/22/10 at 8:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCaboNow View Post

Ah, that could be problematic for my setup.

This all could be a little misleading though.

As others have posted, this is really no different then have a great in room sub setup. Low frequencies travel throughout the house if you do not have a sound proof custom room.

My 2 ported subs on my HT room generate a lot of bass in the house too so the IB isnt much different in terms of waking up my young kids.
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post #43 of 62
5/22/10 at 9:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stgdz View Post

We are all drunk on the horn stuff now.

I have been eyeing that 2x12 GTO TH design over at diyaudio to balance out my viewing area with my THT. Everyone besides me can close their eye's and not tell where the sub is except me. The only problem is that the wife said no more speakers after I finish up my QSC-2150 clone. Don't know how I am going to sneak in a 6 foot tall subwoofer.


Chucky I look forward to you IB build, I will get around to posting my QSC clone thread when I get the drivers and the rest of the parts. I build the front three as sealed boxes.

I've decided to build 2 separate manifolds each holding (2) FI IB3 18's. They are going to be located just above the left and right front mains but only 1 manifold will be used at the moment since I only have (2) IB3 18's. I'll start a new build thread once completed.

Getting them powered will have to wait though since I've already hit my budget this year for the theater. I've started to finish up the walls, trim, fine details, etc. which is killing my budget.

The amp that I'm going to power the subs with is the Crown XLS 1500... more than enough power to drive the subs and I don't have to worry about any loud fans. From what I understand, this amp is really quiet. Also, it has RCA inputs so it makes it really easy to connect to the receiver's sub out.

Link: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=245-502
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post #44 of 62
5/22/10 at 11:03pm
It's always better when you can make the subs disappear.
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post #45 of 62
5/23/10 at 6:27am
Thread Starter 
Quote:


We are all drunk on the horn stuff now.

From my research there are only a couple THs that go as low as an IB.
The DTS10 kit is done, the assembled version is $3k
Building you own TH is not childs play.

I am still intrigued by them as I want to explore all options for my dedicated HT build. An IB seems to be a safe bet as far as results, budget friendly, and very easy DIY project as far as complexity of the cabinet. Integrating it in your house might be a little harder depending on your final location.
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post #46 of 62
5/23/10 at 6:51am
Definitely!! If you have the adjacent space then the IB is the easiest and will give you the lowest craziest bass you want.
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post #47 of 62
5/23/10 at 9:07am
FYI, looks like user Weverb has fallen on hard times Someone could pick up a complete IB setup for a very reasonable price:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/vbcla...do=ad&id=13610
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post #48 of 62
5/23/10 at 8:33pm
Thread Starter 
As the subs break-in, what changes? I had something weird happen today and would like to know what might be the cause. BUT I want some unbiased feedback before I post what happened.

EDIT: I don't think what happened had anything to do with sub break-in, but still would like to know what happens.
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post #49 of 62
5/24/10 at 5:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stgdz View Post

I have been eyeing that 2x12 GTO TH design over at diyaudio to balance out my viewing area with my THT.

Do you have a link?
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post #50 of 62
5/24/10 at 9:01pm
Thread Starter 
Last night I am watching Transformers ROTF and I had to turn my receiver down quite a bit. For demos I have the volume set to 54-56. I had the movie down to 45-46 at times last night and nothing had changed. I initially thought that maybe the subs had really broken in and were playing louder. But I thought that was pretty dramatic so I remembered earlier in the day that I turned the amp off and got up on the ladder to look in the manifold and see how hard it would be to paint the inside in place. When I got down a minute later and turned the amp on there was no output. I had not touched or changed anything. The clip lights stayed on for a while even though input was way down. I tried power cycling it a few more times and one clip light would turn off after a few seconds and the second one would stay on for 5-10 seconds. All connections were secure. I turned it off and checked the signal path. The LFE out on my receiver was not on all the way. I secured the connection and now the sub seems to be playing even louder as it is outplaying my mains and I had to turn the amp levels down some. It is also much punchier on music. My initial thought was break-in, but can a loose connection cause this type of gain?
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post #51 of 62
5/24/10 at 9:11pm
Thread Starter 
I added my BFD to the signal path tonight. I had to turn the SW Level down 3 on my receiver to stop the input from clipping on the BFD at demo levels.

I am using an RS SPL meter with camcorder tripod. I have the mid 20-30 degrees off vertical at ear level when sitting. I loaded the calibration file and checked C weighted.

I calibrated the SPL at 75 db.

I then ran 5-150Hz sweeps from 4 listening positions.

Looks like I have some decent loss at a couple positions. The other two seem pretty flat.

What would you recommed I do?

I have noticed LP1 to be the "hot" seat which probably gets some gain from the 12ft bow window it is right in front of. The other positions are right in front of the open staircase to the basement and are open to the rest of the house.

Any help would be appreciated. Oh yeah, my crossover is set to 90 on my receiver.

LP1
Attachment 176514
LP2
Attachment 176515
LP3
Attachment 176516
LP4
Attachment 176517
LL
LL
LL
LL
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post #52 of 62
5/24/10 at 9:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by onesquin View Post

Last night I am watching Transformers ROTF and I had to turn my receiver down quite a bit. For demos I have the volume set to 54-56. I had the movie down to 45-46 at times last night and nothing had changed. I initially thought that maybe the subs had really broken in and were playing louder. But I thought that was pretty dramatic so I remembered earlier in the day that I turned the amp off and got up on the ladder to look in the manifold and see how hard it would be to paint the inside in place. When I got down a minute later and turned the amp on there was no output. I had not touched or changed anything. The clip lights stayed on for a while even though input was way down. I tried power cycling it a few more times and one clip light would turn off after a few seconds and the second one would stay on for 5-10 seconds. All connections were secure. I turned it off and checked the signal path. The LFE out on my receiver was not on all the way. I secured the connection and now the sub seems to be playing even louder as it is outplaying my mains and I had to turn the amp levels down some. It is also much punchier on music. My initial thought was brea-in, but can a loose connection cause this type of gain?

loose connection = all bets off

Also, sometimes with cheap (old Rat Shack, in my case) interconnects the wires can come loose within the connectors and cause intermittent signal or hum.
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post #53 of 62
5/24/10 at 9:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by onesquin View Post

What would you recommed I do?

Nice install, by the way. Given that your problems are in the 40-80Hz area, I'd think your other sub placed in the back of the room might help a lot, especially if it's high-passed. Assuming you haven't already tried this...
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post #54 of 62
5/24/10 at 10:28pm
using 5db increments for the column on the left, instead of 15 may give us a better idea of what is really going on in your room.
i know i thought i had things pretty smooth in my room till i did this.
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post #55 of 62
5/25/10 at 5:55am
Thread Starter 
I forgot to do a neal field measurement as well.

Where do I do the SPL calibration at? Near field or a listening position?

I will change the graph as well.
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post #56 of 62
5/25/10 at 6:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatawan View Post

Do you have a link?

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwo...n-2x12-th.html

its come up a couple of times in the collabrative TH thread. No one's built one yet but here are a couple things

Its huge and requires 4 sheets of 4x8
Its loud at over 135db
Depending on how you wire the drivers you can use a plate amp or a proamp(2ohms)
It can hit about 18hz before it runs into X-max

Its no dts-10 but its pretty close. Also I played around with horns rep and the drivers wiring and you could boost the low end while staying in X-max but but you need an amp that can hack it to deal with the low impedance.
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post #57 of 62
5/25/10 at 7:21am
Dang, that's a beast! I wouldn't drive it past 130dB myself (run into xmax issues), but then again who would really need to? Not bad at all for $200 in drivers and $150 in materials.

Say, do you have any sims for a lower-end version? I would play with it myself, but my Windows machine crashed, and Hornresp doesn't play well with Wine.
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post #58 of 62
5/25/10 at 7:37am
I think I did this correctly, but this is series at 100w. Looks like you can do about 17hz before you run out of X-max but that is running it rite to the limit. You are going to run out of x-max in the 25-40hz range though.

I could be doing this all wrong as I am still new to hornsrep. Lilmike will probably be better at answering this then I can.
LL
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post #59 of 62
5/25/10 at 7:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatawan View Post

Do you have a link?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stgdz View Post

I think I did this correctly, but this is series at 100w. Looks like you can do about 17hz before you run out of X-max but that is running it rite to the limit. You are going to run out of x-max in the 25-40hz range though.

I could be doing this all wrong as I am still new to hornsrep.

How about not hijacking this thread with yet another horn discussion?
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post #60 of 62
5/25/10 at 8:16am
Thread Starter 
Quote:


It can hit about 18hz before it runs into X-max

I am still trying to figure out what the big deal is other than the gain you can create with a TH enclosure. But the DTS-10 does not even play flat and has 20db of gain over an octave or two?

MY AMPLIFIER and SIGNAL PROCESSING are the limiting factor in how low my IB can go, not the drivers and enclosure??? AND SQ is second to none?
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