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Pimp My Garage - Page 30

post #871 of 956
Thread Starter 
I've been curious about Buttkickers, and it had been literally WEEKS since I bought anything A/V related - sad I know. I found and purchased a used Buttkicker LFE kit (BKA1000-4 amp + LFE transducer + couch mounting kit) from a guy on audiogon, and have it in place now. My setup is sort of temporary, I placed the amp on the floor next to the left most seat in the front row, and placed the LFE on the couch kit under the left rear foot of the middle seat in the front row - so the middle and left seat get the thumpage. Works pretty well, very fun. Still evaluating whether I should get a few more LFEs for under the other seats in the front row, or swap out the LFE for the Buttkicker Advance transducers, and mount them inside the seats (LFEs apparently won't fit inside a Berkline 13175).

The reason the amp is on the floor instead of in the rack is that I only ran a sub cable through the riser, no speaker wire. redface.gif So I need to figure out a way to get a speaker wire run there after the fact - maybe buried under the lip on the riser or something, not sure yet. Fortunately the amp is completely silent.
post #872 of 956
Brad just a heads up. I had that amp and with minimal use pushing some Aura Pro shakers it started to smoke and I had to carry it outside. My googling on the subject was that I wasn't the first to experience the same problem. I popped the cover and found a couple of capacitors that had turned to charcoal. People said to just replace the capacitors, I sent it to the landfill. Granted this was a unit from several years ago and they may have had a problem with a supplier and bad caps. I'm sure it has been corrected. Anyway I would be sure you turn it off when you aren't in the theater.
Edited by BIGmouthinDC - 6/11/12 at 11:02am
post #873 of 956
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the heads up Big, I do recall reading about the cap issues, and yours in particular. I'm not positive, but I believe there was a range of serial numbers affected, then again, I don't know whether mine is in that range or not - will have to do some digging. I do turn it off when not in use.
post #874 of 956
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte View Post

The reason the amp is on the floor instead of in the rack is that I only ran a sub cable through the riser, no speaker wire. redface.gif So I need to figure out a way to get a speaker wire run there after the fact - maybe buried under the lip on the riser or something, not sure yet. Fortunately the amp is completely silent.
Try to determine which kickers/amps you will be using before running more speaker cables. You may end up needing more than just one speaker cable if you connect any of these in parallel to reduce ohm load.
Have you tweaked the variable cutoff to get good results? I'm trying to decide which amp I should buy for my 7 minis and some of the alternatives to the BK-1000 don't have the variable cutoff dial....not sure how significant that is.
post #875 of 956
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 235 View Post

Try to determine which kickers/amps you will be using before running more speaker cables. You may end up needing more than just one speaker cable if you connect any of these in parallel to reduce ohm load.
Have you tweaked the variable cutoff to get good results? I'm trying to decide which amp I should buy for my 7 minis and some of the alternatives to the BK-1000 don't have the variable cutoff dial....not sure how significant that is.

Yeah makes sense - I'll probably leave the amp where it is (next to the seating) for now, until l settle on how many kickers and how they'll be wired - then run the wires to the closet and relocate the amp.

I'm still experimenting with different cutoff settings, so I do find those controls in the amp useful - watched a movie with high cutoff at 80, worked well, but maybe too much for movies with a lot of music that hits low too - so switched to 60. I wonder whether there will be one setting that I can just set and forget, or whether I may need different settings for different types of movies? Not sure yet.

If you get another amp that doesn't have these settings, but you have a two channel EQ that you're using on your subs, you could use the extra channel to set filters specifically for the kickers.

Wish I could find a deal on Advance or mini kickers - all 7 chairs would be nice, but sure adds up. I'll probably just do them for the front row of three, since that's what's used most of the time.
post #876 of 956
I had two Buttkickers mounted in my floor joists and powered them with two amps. They would shake the whole entire room. I found that I liked to use as low a cutoff as possible and even set it to 20-30 Hz in JRiver Media Center (I had an extra output available which I configured for an extra sub output). I then used the crash scene from Flight of the Phoenix to set my levels. Once it was set good with that movie, I usually didn't have any issues. There were some movies when it needed to be turned down, though. After a while I sold an amp and ran two Buttkickers off one amp. It still shook the same for most content, but was less likely to bottom since it didn't have as much overhead available.

I have since sold both Buttkickers and amp and decided to put the money toward better subwoofer systems. I was getting close to the same feel with dual ported subs. I just recently finished my infinite baffle system and it has a better tactile feel than i had even with both Buttkickers. I have enough output that it seems like the house is coming apart. There is a much greater tactile sensation even with music than when I had the Buttkickers. Of course the Buttkickers could be used and turned up even when the volume was down low while the kids were sleeping.
post #877 of 956
Brad,

I got all of my 1/2" ply furring onto the walls in my room today but I noticed that 1/2" plywood strips are as flexible as rubber. So I got to thinking and put two of them together to simulate a frame and, yep, still incredibly flexible. When you built your frames was there a lot of flexing with them or do they magically stiffen up once glued into a square/rectangle?

After easily ripping two 4x8 sheets of plywood into a massive pile of furring strips (and the sawdust... wow!) with my table saw, I'm now waffling on my decision to use MDF for the actual frames but am now concerned about the rigidity of a plywood frame. Plus, the MDF will go faster since it just requires cutting out the middle (yep, lots of waste) rather than assembling from strips. Decisions. Decisions.
post #878 of 956
I didn't have any problem with my two strips of 1/2 inch plywood frames and their stiffness, from the Bacon Race


DSCF5855.jpg

DSCF5879.jpg

DSCF5838.jpg

It is either your choice of plywood or your width of each strip that may be the issue. I think I used 1 1/2 inches.
post #879 of 956
Hmmm... right off the bat yours has more plies than mine. I think mine was three, maybe four. I just bought the cheapest they had per Brad's earlier point. Here it is...

http://www.lowes.com/pd_12192-99899-NA_4294815996__?productId=3602778&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNs%3Dp_product_qty_sales_dollar%7C1&facetInfo=

I'm down for spending more to get the good stuff if that's the issue. What one would you recommend? I need to build a test frame tomorrow and see what happens before I condemn it.
post #880 of 956
Thread Starter 
The strips themselves are pretty floppy, but once they're assembled, the lap joints, liquid nails and brad nails make them pretty stable. For the larger frames I added a cross brace in the middle to ensure that they wouldn't bend inwards under the pull of the fabric. I'd go ahead and make a test frame out of the material you have, and see how it works.
post #881 of 956
As usual, you're both spot on. Two layers of 1 1/2" wide x 1/2" plywood glued and nailed is pretty darn straight and very inflexible. I even stumbled on to a system for building these things by making a variable jig. Got four done today in two hours including my throw away test frame. Thanks again, Gents!

c7e6cc71.jpg
post #882 of 956
Thread Starter 
Great, glad it worked out, and you're cranking them out now!
post #883 of 956
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte View Post

Great, glad it worked out, and you're cranking them out now!

Yeeeeeeah... I don't know if Id say I'm "cranking them out". wink.gif

What was your "frames per hour" rate? At my current 2/hour, I'll be lucky to premiere the new Batman when it comes out on Bluray. If its like every other part of this project, I'll get real good and fast at the very end. Never fails.
post #884 of 956
Thread Starter 
Two an hour sounds pretty good to me, that's probably as fast as I ever turned them out. BIG may well do faster than that, since I'm sure he has it down to a science now. Part of what slowed me down was obsessing over using every little leftover scrap - digging through cutoffs and seeing what I could salvage. Not that I minded the cost of another sheet of plywood, but I don't own a vehicle big enough for a full sheet, so another sheet means another Home Depot truck rental (= a extra couple wasted hours filling out paperwork, picking it up, and dropping it off).
post #885 of 956
Yeah I did the U-Haul rental van several times and could fit 10 footers in it just fine. Last time I went, back about a month ago, they've now added permanent/fixed cages behind the drivers seats which means only 8 footers.

Anyway, I had Lowes cut the 4x8 sheets for these frames into four 24" wide pieces and it fits easily in my back seat... makes working it on the table much easier as well (another tip,from Big). And I too am obsessing now after having a couple corners tear out when routing. I find myself hunting for "solid looking" pieces.... of plywood! Sad thing is, it probably isn't even noticeable.
post #886 of 956
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unacceptable View Post

As usual, you're both spot on. Two layers of 1 1/2" wide x 1/2" plywood glued and nailed is pretty darn straight and very inflexible. I even stumbled on to a system for building these things by making a variable jig. Got four done today in two hours including my throw away test frame. Thanks again, Gents!
c7e6cc71.jpg

Unacceptable,

A few questions:

1. Do you have a build thread going? I don't want to clutter Brad's thread with questions specific to your project if I don't have to.
2. Any photos of your variable jig? I'm probably 1 week away from starting my frames and am looking for as many time-savers as possible.
3. I'm assuming the furring on the wall is 3" wide, to accept (2) 1 1/2" wide frames side by side. Is that correct?
4. It looks like the furring strip up against your soffit was held a few inches below the soffit. What was the reason for this?
5. What size roundover bit are you using?
6. In addition to glue, what type and size of fasteners are you using in each corner of your frame to join the 2 layers of ply?
7. I'm assuming you are using speaker grill pegs like Brad. One per corner? I see what appears to be a screw hole centered on the bottom of each frame. Wasn't sure what that was for.

The frames look great. I hope to be in the same spot a week from now.
post #887 of 956
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaceman View Post

Unacceptable,
A few questions:
1. Do you have a build thread going? I don't want to clutter Brad's thread with questions specific to your project if I don't have to.
2. Any photos of your variable jig? I'm probably 1 week away from starting my frames and am looking for as many time-savers as possible.
3. I'm assuming the furring on the wall is 3" wide, to accept (2) 1 1/2" wide frames side by side. Is that correct?
4. It looks like the furring strip up against your soffit was held a few inches below the soffit. What was the reason for this?
5. What size roundover bit are you using?
6. In addition to glue, what type and size of fasteners are you using in each corner of your frame to join the 2 layers of ply?
7. I'm assuming you are using speaker grill pegs like Brad. One per corner? I see what appears to be a screw hole centered on the bottom of each frame. Wasn't sure what that was for.
The frames look great. I hope to be in the same spot a week from now.

1. Nope. I'm moving slow enough and my wife would kill me. Plus, there's really not an original thought in my build except this jig I backed into on accident. biggrin.gif

2. I'll start a new thread tomorrow with pics so we don't foul up this one and link it here.

3. That is correct.

4. All panels are removable as I am doing treatments after it's all built. Leaving that gap allows the under-soffit panels (also mounted with speaker ball/guides) to pop down and out if that makes any sense.

5. 3/8" roundover, same as Brad. Bought a Bosch Colt for the job but any sub-$100 handheld router would be fine.

6. I bought an 18 Gauge Paslode gas nailer (Lucky me, I now have all three of them!biggrin.gif) just for the frames because it will shoot as small as an 18 gauge 5/8" brad nail with no annoying compressor. To your point, that's what I'm using. Bostitch brand. I also have the Porter Cable US58 upholstery stapler that also will shoot a 5/8" staple but I really hate compressors and I'm not even sure it would get it deep enough into plywood. Plus I hate compressors.

7. Damn you are observant. I am using the heavy duty guides from Parts Express ($3.XX for 12 pair), one in each corner. The hole in the bottom middle of each frame is where I sink a 2" drywall screw to hold it all in place with a small gap between each frame (I use my putty knife... 1/8" maybe?) and then I drill through the front of the frame into the furring strip behind it and remove the drywall screw. Now I know where the balls and guides go.

Side notes....

- I'm doing a "random" pattern for my frames so I need varying lengths on the frame widths. I can tell you that the widest one I have now is 36" and it doesn't need a center support. Brad's look a bit wider (and he uses a center vertical support) but I don't plan on going wider than 36" so keep that in mind if you go greater than that width.

- I'm not using Liquid Nails. Hate the stuff for anything as small as this. I'm using Titebond glue (red and blue) that I have laying around from various other stages of this project.

-Finally, my room draws VERY heavily on this room and Big/Damelon's Bacon Race project. If I had a build thread, I'd call it "The Bruce Wayne Pimp My Mini Fakin' Race Theatre". Sexy, right? Now you know why there's no build thread.

Seriously though, I say this because this is the first post I have ever had on this forum that took me 30 minutes to write and for the first time I feel like I'm finally the one helping contribute the knowledge that guys like Big, Damelon, and Brad have graciously documented in their builds rather than just leech it. I've said it before, but tip of the hat to them.

Hopefully Brad forgives me for dropping this novella in his build thread.
post #888 of 956
One other thing...

I'm not sure if it's fiscally a better deal but those heavy duty speaker balls require drill bits that your box store won't have. Amazon has the longer life bore bit but they'll set you back another $40 or $50. However, the box store WILL have the spade bit variety and that's what I'm using.

The spade bits at your box store (9/16" and... I'll have to check the other one tomorrow) go for less than $8 for the pair. That having been said, my 9/16" spade bit gave up the ghost early due to operator error (concrete floor is not a good backstop for a drill bit) but the other one is still going strong after 12 or so panels and I expect it will complete the build but even if it requires one replacement, I'm still way ahead.
post #889 of 956
Thread Starter 
Novellas are welcome. =). And thanks for the nice words about my semi-dormant build thread - I do hope to actually finish that last 5% one of these days - but just a few more movies first - and maybe a couple sets of speaker builds - and after I ride my bike and play some Xbox live...

p.s. Harbor Freight carries spade bit sets dirt cheap, that's what I've been using since before the HT build, and they're all still going strong.

p.s.s. the new site REALLY sucks on an iPhone.
post #890 of 956
Here is my jig, I used wood glue and banged them togther with 7/8 inch long crown staples, I think I was doing about 8-10 frames an hour.

DSCF5866.jpg
post #891 of 956
Quote:
I used wood glue and banged them togther with 7/8 inch long crown staples,

THERE'S the Tip of the DAY! I used glue and 3/4" wood screws. I can see where staples would be 10 times faster. I still have a few of these to make so I'll be keeping this one in mind.
post #892 of 956
Thanks for all that info. I was hoping I could get by with either my existing Campbell Hausfeld finish nailer or my soon-to-be-purchased upholstery stapler to join the corners of the frames, but it doesn't look like either shoot the right size. My finish nailer only goes as small as 1" and the Porter Cable upholstery stapler only goes as large as 5/8". I guess I'll also be shopping for a crown stapler. I'm assuming any that shoot a variety of 18ga narrow crown staples will work. If anyone has had a good experience with a sub-$100 model, let me know.

Oh, and I also need a sub-$100 router for the frame edges. My tool budget is officially blown.
Edited by Spaceman - 7/16/12 at 3:40pm
post #893 of 956
this is the one I'm using.

I bought new but this reconditioned is a bargain

http://www.tylertool.com/factory-reconditioned-ridgid-zrr150fsa-18-gauge-1-4-in-crown-1-1-2-in-narrow-crown-finish-stapler/rgdrzrr150fsa,default,pd.html?ref=pricegrabberZRR150FSA&zmam=31282435&zmas=47&zmac=479&zmap=ZRR150FSA

This is the router I used to cut bevels on my frames, Don't stand in the line of fire. ever.

DSCF5875-1.jpg
post #894 of 956
I was going to start a new thread but the more I think about it, I don't think Brad documented this part of his build in any detail (maybe he did, I don't remember) but if he did it would look like this so what better place for it? Hopefully Brad won't mind. biggrin.gif

Step 1: Cut a bunch of 1/2" plywood into 1.5" strips on a table saw.

700

Step 2: Use a mitre saw to cut the strips to the lengths needed. My frames are 23.5" tall and various widths wide. Since we know the strips are 1.5" wide and we're using lap joints, then we subtract 1.5 from whatever length it is we need and cut two strips at that length. Once assembled, they'll be the length we want. In this case, I need both sides of my two 23.5" tall frames that I'm doing tonight, so I cut eight strips at 22".

450

Step 3: Cut the top and bottoms of the frames using the same method as step 2.

Step 4. Take the strips to our jig for assembly. The top left corner is four pieces of stacked plywood forming a perfect right angle (use a carpenters square). Off to the right, I have marked lines off at the various widths I will be using PLUS my 23.5" mark.

450

Step 5: Get out the glue and nailer. This particular Paslode shoots 18 gauge brad nails. I'm using Titebond on Big's recommendations.

450

Step 6: Put a scrap piece of our 1.5" wide plywood into the corner of the jig. Now take one of our sides and place it into the corner as well, flush with the top. Slather it up with glue.

450

Step 7: Add same sized top piece to the mix. The scrap piece of 1.5" ply in the corner gives us the perfect offset. Double check this by looking to the right of the jig and verifying that we're at the right line on our length.

450

Step 8: Shoot about 10-20 nails into the boards depending on length. Glue might seep out... no biggie.

450

ALSO: I should also mention that these are the nails I use.

700

Step 9: Repeat for the other three sides and you'll eventually have a stack of lumber that looks like this...

450

Step 10: Now we head back to the jig to assemble our sides. Place them into the jig like before and have at it.

450

FREE TIP: When nailing the corners, don't put a nail in the middle. That's where our speaker ball will end up /and we'll need to drill out for it. Nails are not good for that.

450

Step 11: Stand back and admire your perfectly square frames.

450

Step 12: We're doing a 3/8" roundover so we're going to need a router. This is a Bosch Colt and I love it. I also have ZERO routing experience and its small size makes it much less intimidating than a full size router, IMO.

450

Step 13: Route the edges... nice and slow. Watch your fingers.


450


Step 14: Admire your nice rounded edges for a bit and then take them to your theater.

700

Step 15: So this frame is going to go on the middle row which means we want to add just a bit of a gap between it and the other frames because I'm guessing two layers of the fabric is going to be about a 1/16 to 1/8" so we need some breathing room. I'm too lazy to actually measure it so I use a knife blade. Looks good to me.

450

Step 16: Put a drywall screw into the frame to hold it in place.

450

Step 17: Drill a pilot hold through the frame and into the furring strip behind it at each location that you want a speaker grille ball and guide. We'll be doing one on each corner.

450

Step 18: Now remove the drywall screw and frame and drill out for the grille guide. I'm using the Parts Express heavy duty ones and that means a 9/16" spade bit into the furring strip.

450

Now we have four of those in the wall.

450

Step 19: Head over to your frame and drill out for the balls. These require a 7/16" bit for this part.

450

Once this is done, you've got a frame with a bunch of balls in the corners (I gotta quit saying balls).

450

Step 20: Put it on the wall. Here's the end product of about an hour of work tonight (taking these pics slowed me down a lot and reminded me why I don't actually have/want a build thread). As you can see, I have two frames in the middle row as of tonight.

450

That's it. Rinse and repeat, ad nauseum and with any luck we'll get a theater as nice as Brad's.
Edited by Unacceptable - 7/16/12 at 6:59pm
post #895 of 956
Thread Starter 
Nice docs Unacceptable, thanks for adding that. About the only things I did differently were: Liquid Nails; circular saw; and 1/8" scraps of Masonite as spacers between panels.

Oh, and I bought a Porter Cable brad nailer that does up to 2" brads, and a Porter cable narrow crown stapler.

Keep us posted on how things come together.
post #896 of 956
Unacceptable-Great write up and extremely helpful. Thanks for taking the time to document all of that.

Big-Thanks for the stapler link. Just might have to grab one of those reconditioned ones.

Brad-Thanks for allowing the thread hijack.
post #897 of 956
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte View Post

Nice docs Unacceptable, thanks for adding that. About the only things I did differently were: Liquid Nails; circular saw; and 1/8" scraps of Masonite as spacers between panels.
Oh, and I bought a Porter Cable brad nailer that does up to 2" brads, and a Porter cable narrow crown stapler.
Keep us posted on how things come together.

I can't even imagine doing this without a table saw. If I remember correctly you used a fence of some kind. I've done the old clamp a board on top of the board you're cutting and the setup alone takes forever compared to the business part of actually cutting the wood. No thanks! biggrin.gif

I used this $80 Skil table saw and I was flying through the "making strips" part. I tend to view my time as having a fixed dollar amount assigned to it and use it to justify the purchase of tools (seriously). If it's a tool I won't likely use again (table saw) then I buy the cheaper ones I can find and dump them off on a relative or friend after I'm done with it. If it's a tool I know I'll use again (like my nail guns) then I suck it up and buy the premium tools.

So what I'm trying to say is I think this is a great example of when to drop $80 just on the time savings alone. biggrin.gif
post #898 of 956
Definitely a nice write up Unacceptable. Very well documented and I look forward to your results.
post #899 of 956
Thread Starter 
Shameless plug for my new LCR build / thread bump to keep this thread out of the can:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1422024/seos-12-dna-360-jbl-2226-j-build
post #900 of 956
How did the Broadcast wall fabric do in the official "blow" test?
How does it compare to Anchorage or FR701?

Thanks.
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