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NEW MFW-15 amps (May 2010) *pics* - Page 12

post #331 of 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by NicksHitachi View Post

Even if you get 3-400 for your MFW you'll still have to pony up 4-500 dollars. For that I would just buy a third MFW!!!!

haha, yeah three MFWs! Not gonna happen. I was lucky to get two approved by the mrs. and besides I do not have room for a third. I also do not trust AV321 enough to buy from them again, so even if I could I wouldn't buy another MFW from them.
post #332 of 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimwhite View Post

I received my Piano Black B stock MFW-15 last week and I've been pounding it all week and, simply put, it's AWESOME !! Yes, the gain in the pre-amp section, when using the line-level inputs, is about 6-10db low, but the gain through the LFE input is fine. I made two 6db attenuators and put them in line to my mains at the power amp, and now everybody is happy! This is currently a 2 channel setup, KEF 104/2's passively Bi-Amped with Carver m500t's. I plan to pull out the amp and change the gain. Will post back with the values and results.

OBTW, one feature has NOT been lost... in the center position of the little power toggle switch, the auto sleep mode works just fine.

Glad you like your new sub! I take it yours came with the new style amp. If so is there a blanking plate installed on the top back of the sub where the amp controller used to be or is the controller still there just not functional?
post #333 of 2590
In case there is any confusion, AV123 has no involvement with the Turbo kit being discussed above. Craig is pretty busy with the torturous process of starting production and shipping of his own subwoofers. Those who do the upgrade will get to experience the performance upgrade first hand. I'd put pretty significant value on the impressions of those who have lived with the original in the same system and location for months or years now.
post #334 of 2590
My amp has given me the hum of death. It happened upon turn on, as usually seems to be the case.

I have asked for a replacement and was told it will ship in a few days. I hope the V3 can pound like the V2 did, fingers crossed.
post #335 of 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimwhite View Post

I received my Piano Black B stock MFW-15 last week and I've been pounding it all week and, simply put, it's AWESOME !! Yes, the gain in the pre-amp section, when using the line-level inputs, is about 6-10db low, but the gain through the LFE input is fine. I made two 6db attenuators and put them in line to my mains at the power amp, and now everybody is happy! This is currently a 2 channel setup, KEF 104/2's passively Bi-Amped with Carver m500t's. I plan to pull out the amp and change the gain. Will post back with the values and results.

I also have a PB B stock, a beautiful finish. I am also using it in a 2 channel system, so the L/R inputs are how I have it hooked up (V2 amp). It is odd that the LFE jack gives more output, it is usually the other way around.

Questions please:

-How are you crossing over the sub if you are using the LFE jack, do you have an active XO upstream?

-Pull the amp and change the gain? The V3 amp?

Quote:


OBTW, one feature has NOT been lost... in the center position of the little power toggle switch, the auto sleep mode works just fine.

This is good to know. Thanks for posting your experience with the new amp thus far.
post #336 of 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by volta View Post

So this is the dilema I find myself in. I have two MFW's and I am on the list of Turbo upgrade. Money is real tight these days, so the only way I can really do the upgrade is if I sell one of the MFWs. Use that towards the purchase of the upgrade.
I know nothing is out yet, but do you guys think that is a wise move? It woud open up some needed space on the floor, and I should have plenty of bass, but I lose the advantage of having a sub in each opposing corner of my room.
Decisions, decisions...
What do you guys think?

Basically you'd get probably $400 at best for one of your MFW-15s. So you are talking an additional $400 for approximately the same performance you have now (this is as best we know based on the claim that one Turbo = more or less two normal MFW-15s) but you gain space and most like reliability. Only you determine whether that is worth it for you.
post #337 of 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by secstate View Post

Basically you'd get probably $400 at best for one of your MFW-15s. So you are talking an additional $400 for approximately the same performance you have now (this is as best we know based on the claim that one Turbo = more or less two normal MFW-15s) but you gain space and most like reliability. Only you determine whether that is worth it for you.

Exactly. That is why I don't know if its really worth it. The reliability factor is very tempting, plus I trust what Kevin and Mark put together.
I lose the advantage of having two subs though, and having that bass cover my whole room. Once reports start coming in, it should be easier to decide
post #338 of 2590
I added a second MFW-15 over the father's day weekend and it has the unused controls at the top. Just like others noticed the gain on the newer unit look to be higher but that really doesn't matter to me. I used my RS meter and level matched the mains then a single sub and then the second sub. All I can say is WOW I expected it to be louder but it isn't how loud it is that impresses me. It's the sound of the bass that has me smiling from ear to ear now. I have no equipment to take measurements or anything like that but I can and will say that over all the low end sounds and feels so much better. I wish all the Turbo folks well with their upgrades and can't wait for comments. I couldn't justify to myself spending another $800 to get to where I am now when I spend just $450.
post #339 of 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProblemHouston View Post

I added a second MFW-15 over the father's day weekend and it has the unused controls at the top. Just like others noticed the gain on the newer unit look to be higher but that really doesn't matter to me. I used my RS meter and level matched the mains then a single sub and then the second sub. All I can say is WOW I expected it to be louder but it isn't how loud it is that impresses me. It's the sound of the bass that has me smiling from ear to ear now. I have no equipment to take measurements or anything like that but I can and will say that over all the low end sounds and feels so much better. I wish all the Turbo folks well with their upgrades and can't wait for comments. I couldn't justify to myself spending another $800 to get to where I am now when I spend just $450.

Seems to me as though the new v3 amps do seem to be better than the older versions, aside from a couple of reports from KlipschHead and another individual who's name escapes me at the moment. Those 2 seemed to have perhaps maybe gotten a couple of duds, but those were from some of the earlier production batches so maybe anything since then is performing fairly well.

It would be nice to get a general consensus on these amps. Especially with AV having B Stock Black Satin's in stock for 500 shipped!

It is tempting to buy 1 or 2 of those. I've been fortunate to have 2 MFW-15's with the v2's in em that work just fine.

More input on the v3's from others who have them would greatly be appreciated.
post #340 of 2590
My Satin Black US built V3 MFW has been running fine so far.
Torture tests and normal listening tests have been done without any issues.
I have the MFW and a Velodyne DLS-5000R corner loaded and co-located.
The overall sound is much bigger and more enveloping as compared to a single sub.

Still playing with the Sub Distance and Phase settings a bit but so far so good.
post #341 of 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by tesseract67 View Post

I also have a PB B stock, a beautiful finish. I am also using it in a 2 channel system, so the L/R inputs are how I have it hooked up (V2 amp). It is odd that the LFE jack gives more output, it is usually the other way around.

Questions please:

-How are you crossing over the sub if you are using the LFE jack, do you have an active XO upstream?

-Pull the amp and change the gain? The V3 amp?



This is good to know. Thanks for posting your experience with the new amp thus far.

No, I'm not using the LFE input, but I did briefly switch one channel over to it and I nearly got blown out the door! My plan (which may stay that way a while since we just moved to a new abode...) is to pull the new amp and old controller. Raising the gain by about 10db on the line inputs should be quite easy... 2 resistor adjustments. I'm also going to investigate the possibility of hooking up the controls on the old controller and eliminating the new ones on the plate. I WILL keep an ear for increased hum though, since mine is dead silent with no input. It's gonna be fun to get back to tinkering again
post #342 of 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by secstate View Post

Basically you'd get probably $400 at best for one of your MFW-15s. So you are talking an additional $400 for approximately the same performance you have now (this is as best we know based on the claim that one Turbo = more or less two normal MFW-15s) but you gain space and most like reliability. Only you determine whether that is worth it for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ProblemHouston View Post

I wish all the Turbo folks well with their upgrades and can't wait for comments. I couldn't justify to myself spending another $800 to get to where I am now when I spend just $450.

You may be forgetting that the turbo upgrade isn't just about more output (as simply adding a second MFW would provide that)- and of course it's more output in the exact same enclosure size.

It is supposed to have an improved low end response (lower F3), and improved transient response. If it performs as it has been described, it will not only provide more output/headroom but also play deeper and tighter/more responsive.

What this is worth is different to everyone, but it shouldn't be overlooked.
post #343 of 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by LilGator View Post

It is supposed to have an improved low end response (lower F3), and improved transient response. If it performs as it has been described, it will not only provide more output/headroom but also play deeper and tighter/more responsive.

What this is worth is different to everyone, but it shouldn't be overlooked.

I have one on order, and per Kevin it retains the same tuning as the original MFW-15 which is about 17 Hz. However, it will produce about 6 dB more output at that level. Consequently, the frequencies below the F3 will also have more output.
post #344 of 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post

I have one on order, and per Kevin it retains the same tuning as the original MFW-15 which is about 17 Hz. However, it will produce about 6 dB more output at that level. Consequently, the frequencies below the F3 will also have more output.

Interesting, thanks. 6dB increase at 17Hz seems pretty impressive.
post #345 of 2590
6db at 17hz, how much power did they say was in this amp???

I bought a new (new to me anyway) RV so haven't been able to keep up here, sitting at a campground so finally logging in. My amp is still sitting at my house, something got goofed up at Fed-Ex so Kyle is sending me a new label.

The RV center console has a 20" Tube TV, it's the perfect place for my UFW subwoofer so I'm going to mount an arm on the ceiling and install an LED LCD and start installing a RV Home Theater.

This should be interesting!

post #346 of 2590
I thought you were going to put an X-Plosive cabinet in the RV?
post #347 of 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by LilGator View Post

Interesting, thanks. 6dB increase at 17Hz seems pretty impressive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KlipschHead281 View Post

6db at 17hz, how much power did they say was in this amp???

Moving from a 350W amp to 1000W amplifier and a driver which can both deliver/handle more power and is more efficient around port tuning easily meets a 5-6dB gain over what can be delivered by the original. While the tuning frequency is the same, the response curve is noticeably smoother and better shaped fitting a +/-3dB vs +/-4dB window, which is 2dB less variation and more in line with what I wanted the sub to do if the filtering had been available in the original amp. So in comparison to what I originally designed in the MFW-15 the Turbo kit sounds better, smoother, and plays louder, and current MFW-15 owners don't have to deal with AV321 to obtain it.
post #348 of 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

So in comparison to what I originally designed in the MFW-15 the Turbo kit sounds better, smoother, and plays louder, and current MFW-15 owners don't have to deal with AV321 to obtain it.

However, we still have to wait. Hopefully my second Turbo will be available soon. The family is out of town the first week of August and I want to calibrate everything.
post #349 of 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

Moving from a 350W amp to 1000W amplifier and a driver which can both deliver/handle more power and is more efficient around port tuning easily meets a 5-6dB gain over what can be delivered by the original. While the tuning frequency is the same, the response curve is noticeably smoother and better shaped fitting a +/-3dB vs +/-4dB window, which is 2dB less variation and more in line with what I wanted the sub to do if the filtering had been available in the original amp. So in comparison to what I originally designed in the MFW-15 the Turbo kit sounds better, smoother, and plays louder, and current MFW-15 owners don't have to deal with AV321 to obtain it.

Thank you Mark. Running some numbers what I'd have invested in a pair of these compares with Submersive pricing.

What are your thoughts on how a stacked dual Turbo Kit MFW-15 setup would compare to a single Submersive? (If you're not keen on getting into this comparison, I understand)

I have a large open room 6000+ cu ft and because response is so strange in the room (loft cathedral-ish ceiling, very open to probably 10K+ cu ft), I'm taking the brute force approach of maximum output (stacked) from the best spot, let EQ handle the rest.
post #350 of 2590
LilGator, here is a post from Mark that you may find helpful:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

The generalization of 3dB gain for separated sources comes from observation of full range sound from 2 largely separated speakers. In simple terms, no matter the origins of the sound pressure, two super-imposed sound signals of equal level and identical phasing will constructively combine to 6dB greater than either. Once sources are separated, the phasing will cycle vs. frequency, and the combination of say pink noise from 2 sources will *average* to an observed gain of ~3dB in total sound power over a wide spectrum.

If we select out specific frequencies we will see combinations of the two sources ranging from +6dB to -10dB or lower. At lower frequencies (longer wavelengths) this cycling and variation in gain spans a wider frequency range, and is greatly complicated by interactions with the room boundaries. If you imagined each wall of your room as a mirrored surface like a fun house you would see hundreds of "virtual images" of a single subwoofer while sitting at the listening position. The response we measure is the combination of ALL of those virtual sources. Lossy boundaries simply reduce the intensity of the higher order images/reflections.

Short answer?... Two subwoofers placed in a room can combine to yield up to 6dB greater than the louder of the two sources, regardless of placement.

Co-location eliminates a handful of variables making the resulting gain more predictable over certain ranges. Such generalizations get very confusing when we start talking about a spectrum of sound such as the 10-100Hz range a subwoofer typically operates within. While an average of this spectrum may yield a gain of 1-4dB with multiple subwoofers, there can be frequency ranges where you gain 6-20dB vs. a hole left by a lesser number or different placement of subwoofers.

The subjective result of more uniform output and level vs. frequency is one of much more detail and greater perceived power as certain acoustic events might have been lost or under-powered due to those dips or valleys.
post #351 of 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonk View Post

I thought you were going to put an X-Plosive cabinet in the RV?

It's too big...
post #352 of 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

Moving from a 350W amp to 1000W amplifier and a driver which can both deliver/handle more power and is more efficient around port tuning easily meets a 5-6dB gain over what can be delivered by the original. While the tuning frequency is the same, the response curve is noticeably smoother and better shaped fitting a +/-3dB vs +/-4dB window, which is 2dB less variation and more in line with what I wanted the sub to do if the filtering had been available in the original amp. So in comparison to what I originally designed in the MFW-15 the Turbo kit sounds better, smoother, and plays louder, and current MFW-15 owners don't have to deal with AV321 to obtain it.

Sorry Mark, I miss-read, I thought he was saying 6db between the v2 and v3. My mistake.
post #353 of 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post

LilGator, here is a post from Mark that you may find helpful:

Indeed I did, good stuff- thanks!
post #354 of 2590
has anyone heard of any news that av has for the new mfw replacement? kyle mentioned it to me by email that they have something coming up that'll be in it's place soon. not sure what kind of sub it'll be or if it's something the same size but made better.
post #355 of 2590
Well, the website has changed and an email was sent out stating that MLS stepped down as President of the company but still in charge or something like that. Not sure what it meant but the new speakers do reflect a higher price range than before reflective of being made here in the states.

If MLS stepped down from the top who is stepping in? I wouldn't mind a pair of LS6 cabinets but don't have the money right now for obvious reasons.
post #356 of 2590
KH, anything new to report on your replacement amp for your v3 that you sent back? I'm debating on getting another MFW but waiting on feedback from others on the v3. Congrats on your new RV.

Thanks.
post #357 of 2590
Quote:
Originally Posted by yadfgp View Post

KH, anything new to report on your replacement amp for your v3 that you sent back? I'm debating on getting another MFW but waiting on feedback from others on the v3. Congrats on your new RV.

Thanks.

It never made it to their office, Fed-Ex screwed the whole thing up so Kyle is sending me a new label. Have not received it yet though, so if I don't have a new label by Tuesday I'm going to ship it back at my cost.
post #358 of 2590
KH, I have been told there is now a three week waiting period for a v3 replacement amp.
post #359 of 2590
I recently picked up a used MFW-15 this weekend. It seems to be working OK, but there was a hum coming from it. I immediately got a cheater plug and the hum has gone away. I have read that these are infamous for hums and I believe the cheater plug is only a temporary fix. My question is how to determine the cause of the hum. Is it a grounding loop issue, the transformer or other. If someone could let me know what to look for or point me to somewhere with information regarding this. I would really appreciate it. I believe there were threads on AV321 just for hums, but that information is gone. Some backgroud information. The sub came with the V2 amp, and I"m praying that it lasts as I'm not a fan on how the V3 amp looks and the performance has been controversial at this point. The hum only occurs when the input cable is attached (LFE), and you turn up the gain. When nothing is attached there is no hum. I'm using a Denon 1610 receiver and I have not run audyssey with the new sub. Any help is appreciated. Thanks
post #360 of 2590
Doesn't sound like transformer hum more like a ground loop. My first thought would be to disconnect your cable connection and or satellite dish feeds. I'm talking the physical coax coming from the street or the dish outside.
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