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Need help picking a sub - Rythmik vs HSU

post #1 of 27
5/18/10 at 9:31pm
Thread Starter 
Budget - $1,300
Room Dimensions - 15x17x8
50% Music / 40% Movies / 10% Gaming

- Don't need to shake pictures off walls / wake my small children / disturb the neighbors - but want clean, articulate sound at lower to medium output levels to go w/ Aperion set-up 6T's (towers), 6C (center) and 5DP's (surrounds)

- Considering ONE sealed 15 inch from Rythmik vs. HSU VFT3 MK3

- I realize that this may be apples and oranges as far as price and design, but I need help in understanding whether I need all the output from the HSU (ported) vs. the sound quality of the Rythmik (sealed)

- Any thoughts (or criticism of my apparent lack of focus) are appreciated.
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post #2 of 27
5/18/10 at 9:37pm
You might want to try comparing it to the Hsu ULS which is also a 15" sealed.
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post #3 of 27
5/19/10 at 12:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by aboroth00 View Post

You might want to try comparing it to the Hsu ULS which is also a 15" sealed.

Seconded.
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post #4 of 27
5/19/10 at 12:42am
It seems to me that you have already made your choice. Just read you post carefully and you will know what im saying.
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post #5 of 27
5/19/10 at 1:03am
50% music, 40% movies, 10% gaming...I think that says it all. The Rythmik of course...I mean quality over quantity in most cases. I personally think sealed subs sound better in general anyway. I have a sealed sub myself...the Sunfire HRS-12.
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post #6 of 27
5/19/10 at 7:29am
I agree the better comparison is the Rythmik F15 versus the ULS-15.

Given your goals, I'd say the Rythmik sounds like a better fit. And if you need more output, you can always add another Rythmik (F15 or F12) down the line.
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post #7 of 27
5/19/10 at 7:40am
The servo controlled Rythmik without question.............
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post #8 of 27
5/19/10 at 9:22am
Thread Starter 
Wow - thanks for the advice. And btw, very nice psychoanalysis, RicardoJoa – I guess I really do want to be talked into the sealed sub.

I guess I really wanted to ask: “do I need a ported sub (ala HSU VFT3 MK3) to get that movie theater wow in a room that’s not huge? Said another way, is the sealed sub a very different experience?” Music is my first love, but the family likes movies and I want them to be happy as well.

If I spend that much money (about $1,400 w/ shipping for Rythmik vs $700ish w/ VFT3 MK3), I do want some versatility and would like some “wow” when watching movies. I just don’t need obscene levels of power / output. I don’t want to be paying for something that I can’t use, while losing some sound quality.

I note that many people go with 2 sealed 15’s (I assume to approach the output of a ported sub like the SVS Ultra 13 or HSU VFT3 MK3). Is that just because they like the massive excess?

Please understand that I do not yet own a sub and have limited experience with cheap (Best Buy type) subs at other people’s houses – just sound boomy & distorted. Also note that I would never consider myself an audiophile. Is the musical sound quality b/t the 2 types of subs (sealed & ported) discernibly different for normal folks?

Also, as I have previously mentioned, I am buying the Aperion 6T's. Does anybody think that a sub for music is just overkill b/c of the reputation for base extension that these have?

I realize that this is a lot of questions - I'm driving myself nuts.

Thanks for all the input.
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post #9 of 27
5/19/10 at 10:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntellSasquatch View Post

Please understand that I do not yet own a sub and have limited experience with cheap (Best Buy type) subs at other people's houses - just sound boomy & distorted. Also note that I would never consider myself an audiophile. Is the musical sound quality b/t the 2 types of subs (sealed & ported) discernibly different for normal folks?

Also, as I have previously mentioned, I am buying the Aperion 6T's. Does anybody think that a sub for music is just overkill b/c of the reputation for base extension that these have?

I can't speak for everyone, but all ported subs (including svs and hsu) that i've heard don't do that well for music compared to sealed subs. I don't think you need to have golden ears to tell the difference - it is clear as day.

i do feel that a good sub handles the <80hz better than most speakers (floorstanders included).
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post #10 of 27
5/19/10 at 10:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntellSasquatch View Post

Wow - thanks for the advice. And btw, very nice psychoanalysis, RicardoJoa - I guess I really do want to be talked into the sealed sub.

I guess I really wanted to ask: do I need a ported sub (ala HSU VFT3 MK3) to get that movie theater wow in a room that's not huge? Said another way, is the sealed sub a very different experience? Music is my first love, but the family likes movies and I want them to be happy as well.

If I spend that much money (about $1,400 w/ shipping for Rythmik vs $700ish w/ VFT3 MK3), I do want some versatility and would like some wow when watching movies. I just don't need obscene levels of power / output. I don't want to be paying for something that I can't use, while losing some sound quality.

I note that many people go with 2 sealed 15's (I assume to approach the output of a ported sub like the SVS Ultra 13 or HSU VFT3 MK3). Is that just because they like the massive excess?

Please understand that I do not yet own a sub and have limited experience with cheap (Best Buy type) subs at other people's houses - just sound boomy & distorted. Also note that I would never consider myself an audiophile. Is the musical sound quality b/t the 2 types of subs (sealed & ported) discernibly different for normal folks?

Also, as I have previously mentioned, I am buying the Aperion 6T's. Does anybody think that a sub for music is just overkill b/c of the reputation for base extension that these have?

I realize that this is a lot of questions - I'm driving myself nuts.

Thanks for all the input.

Even systems with decent "full range" main speakers benefit from a subwoofer. This is especially true with movies.

You don't have to be a "golden ear" to hear the difference the servo makes with the Rythmik.
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post #11 of 27
5/19/10 at 10:37am
Hi, Sasquatch:

I will try to address your questions...

First, a ported sub with that "wow factor" will be definately cheaper than a sealed with the same "wow factor".

Since your room space is moderate, you won't have much problem with either.
Many people, here in the forums, love to have massive amounts of bass...But the more headroom or available unused power the less distortion you will have.

Yes, in most cases the sound of a vented/ported vs a sealed is different. Even within the same brand, in the case of the ULS-15 and the VTF-3 MK3 the sound is definately different. The VTF-3 MK3 feels more robust/powerful at the most commons freqs, even while the ULS-15 is sometimes even stronger or equal in db.

All speakers I have heard so far, are way better with a subwoofer added no doubt...
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post #12 of 27
5/19/10 at 11:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntellSasquatch View Post

Wow - thanks for the advice. And btw, very nice psychoanalysis, RicardoJoa - I guess I really do want to be talked into the sealed sub.

I guess I really wanted to ask: do I need a ported sub (ala HSU VFT3 MK3) to get that movie theater wow in a room that's not huge? Said another way, is the sealed sub a very different experience? Music is my first love, but the family likes movies and I want them to be happy as well.

If I spend that much money (about $1,400 w/ shipping for Rythmik vs $700ish w/ VFT3 MK3), I do want some versatility and would like some wow when watching movies. I just don't need obscene levels of power / output. I don't want to be paying for something that I can't use, while losing some sound quality.

I note that many people go with 2 sealed 15's (I assume to approach the output of a ported sub like the SVS Ultra 13 or HSU VFT3 MK3). Is that just because they like the massive excess?

Please understand that I do not yet own a sub and have limited experience with cheap (Best Buy type) subs at other people's houses - just sound boomy & distorted. Also note that I would never consider myself an audiophile. Is the musical sound quality b/t the 2 types of subs (sealed & ported) discernibly different for normal folks?

Also, as I have previously mentioned, I am buying the Aperion 6T's. Does anybody think that a sub for music is just overkill b/c of the reputation for base extension that these have?

I realize that this is a lot of questions - I'm driving myself nuts.

Thanks for all the input.

Dont know where u are situated but should get a quote from rythmik to where you live. I got mine and is well below my expectation. I mean the shipping cost.
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post #13 of 27
5/20/10 at 6:11am
Based on your room and what you've said, I'd have to go with the Rythmik too.
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post #14 of 27
5/20/10 at 6:25pm
I'd think about going with 2 VTF2 Mk3's. I have a room very similar to yours in size but a couple of openings into very high volume rooms. I too listen to a lot of music and also watch a lot of movies. I have Meridian gear and the VTF2 Mk3's integrate beautifly--with an 8033 anti mode. Do some research here and look into bass management and room response. Two subs are almost always better than one--ported or sealed. Two VTF2 Mk3's will fit well into your budget.
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post #15 of 27
5/20/10 at 7:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kswanson View Post

I'd think about going with 2 VTF2 Mk3's. I have a room very similar to yours in size but a couple of openings into very high volume rooms. I too listen to a lot of music and also watch a lot of movies. I have Meridian gear and the VTF2 Mk3's integrate beautifly--with an 8033 anti mode. Do some research here and look into bass management and room response. Two subs are almost always better than one--ported or sealed. Two VTF2 Mk3's will fit well into your budget.

THey just don't sound as clean as a Rythmik sub. Lots of overhang from being ported and 2nd,3rd order harmonics due to it. For the price of 2 VTF2's he could get a 600 watt F15 which will have basically the same linear displacement, and servo controlled and sealed on top of it. He will probably get more raw output with the 2 VTF2's, but the sound won't be nearly as clean as the F15. In the smallish room he is going to be using he will not have any output issues whatsoever with the F15(He can expect output averaging over 110db in that size room with the F15) and he will get real world extension down to 14hz and a bit below with ease.
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post #16 of 27
5/20/10 at 8:52pm
[quote=IntellSasquatch;18654907]Budget - $1,300
Room Dimensions - 15x17x8
50% Music / 40% Movies / 10% Gaming

but want clean, articulate sound at lower to medium output

Have you considered looking for 2 subs to fit your budget? With 2 subs you will get better bass consistancy and cleaner bass than with any 1 sub. In my opinion you should consider 2 subs if you really want the best quality for your budget.

Ivan
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post #17 of 27
5/21/10 at 6:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntrain6943 View Post

THey just don't sound as clean as a Rythmik sub. Lots of overhang from being ported and 2nd,3rd order harmonics due to it. For the price of 2 VTF2's he could get a 600 watt F15 which will have basically the same linear displacement, and servo controlled and sealed on top of it. He will probably get more raw output with the 2 VTF2's, but the sound won't be nearly as clean as the F15. In the smallish room he is going to be using he will not have any output issues whatsoever with the F15(He can expect output averaging over 110db in that size room with the F15) and he will get real world extension down to 14hz and a bit below with ease.

Hi ntrain,

Have you ever heard a VTF-2 MK3/MK3 HSU sub and a F15 Rythmik sub?

I'd like to know your answer.
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post #18 of 27
5/21/10 at 7:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by cacihome View Post

Hi ntrain,

Have you ever heard a VTF-2 MK3/MK3 HSU sub and a F15 Rythmik sub?

I'd like to know your answer.

Hmmmm, well lets see, I own a few Rythmik products and have set up a few more for others locally as well. My nextdoor neighbor actually has a VTF-3 MK3 from my recommendation off an auction on fleabay, and Ive played with a few VTF-2's as well. And have alot of experience with the ULS-15 being a past owner of one.
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post #19 of 27
5/21/10 at 7:48am
Gentlemen, can anyone provide to me a link to measurements of Rythmik F15, if such information exists anywhere? Thanks.
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post #20 of 27
5/21/10 at 9:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon McGregor View Post

Gentlemen, can anyone provide to me a link to measurements of Rythmik F15, if such information exists anywhere? Thanks.

Rythmik posts the T/S parameters on their website and some vague/basic response graphs. Surprisingly though you can expect similiar in home results, the direct servo circuit works as advertised when the sub is driven within its design parameters, if anything the product is understated..........I would call up Rythmik directly and talk to the man who designed the unit. He will give you any info you may lack currently.
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post #21 of 27
5/21/10 at 11:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntrain6943 View Post

Hmmmm, well lets see, I own a few Rythmik products and have set up a few more for others locally as well. My nextdoor neighbor actually has a VTF-3 MK3 from my recommendation off an auction on fleabay, and Ive played with a few VTF-2's as well. And have alot of experience with the ULS-15 being a past owner of one.

OK. Thanks for answering, good to know that you've heard HSU subs too.

Take care,
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post #22 of 27
5/21/10 at 3:19pm
I'd personally go with the ULS-15. I've heard nothing but great things about them.
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post #23 of 27
5/21/10 at 3:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ntrain6943 View Post

THey just don't sound as clean as a Rythmik sub. Lots of overhang from being ported and 2nd,3rd order harmonics due to it. For the price of 2 VTF2's he could get a 600 watt F15 which will have basically the same linear displacement, and servo controlled and sealed on top of it. He will probably get more raw output with the 2 VTF2's, but the sound won't be nearly as clean as the F15. In the smallish room he is going to be using he will not have any output issues whatsoever with the F15(He can expect output averaging over 110db in that size room with the F15) and he will get real world extension down to 14hz and a bit below with ease.

Interesting. I had a JL Audio F113, generally considered a pretty good sub I think, in my room previously and I couldn't tame the room effects. Going to two VTF2 Mk3's really smoothed things out. Now I may be partially deaf but I'm not hearing any overhang. Not to say two f113's wouldn't be better but also a LOT more money. My room response is now +- 4 db from 16hz to 80hz.
I really believe two subs and good eq are the way to go in most rooms.
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post #24 of 27
5/21/10 at 3:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cacihome View Post

OK. Thanks for answering, good to know that you've heard HSU subs too.

Take care,

THey aren't bad sounding subs at all. The ULS-15 was very punchy. I actually replaced the pair a year ago with a pair of SVS PB13 Ultra's, and actually preferred the ULS subs(THe PB13's were a big mistake). So I ended up selling off the PB13's last summer on Audiogon and in the fall replaced em with a pair of D15SE's. The SE's are the best sounding of the bunch I've heard and quite possibly the most musical and accurate sub I have owned to date. And that says alot because Ive owned countless top tier subs.
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post #25 of 27
5/21/10 at 3:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kswanson View Post

Interesting. I had a JL Audio F113, generally considered a pretty good sub I think, in my room previously and I couldn't tame the room effects. Going to two VTF2 Mk3's really smoothed things out. Now I may be partially deaf but I'm not hearing any overhang. Not to say two f113's wouldn't be better but also a LOT more money. My room response is now +- 4 db from 16hz to 80hz.
I really believe two subs and good eq are the way to go in most rooms.

Overhang becomes an issue with ported subs(or any sub for that matter, but less so with sealed designs) when they are pushed hard and play alot of frequencies at or below their tuning point at higher output levels I find. Alot of people overdrive their subs. That of course is not always the case with everyone. Honestly not being a fan of the overhyped JL subs, I myself would take a pair of VTF2's over an F113 any day of the week, take the money saved and buy other upgrades for the HT system.

Regardless, Id still recommend the OP a F15HP in a heartbeat, its has a nice 3 way adjustable 1 band PEQ, a very nice 9 way low frequency extension filter, and uses a top quality plate amp and servo driver. He would not have any problems getting a good flat response with that Rythmik sub. Go with the SE version and have a very nice furniture grade enclosure on top of it.
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post #26 of 27
5/21/10 at 4:39pm
I still want to see the measurements Everyone has his own listening preferences, room conditions, etc. Have you seen the graphs of Dr. Toole, gentlemen - here: page 9 figure 3 and page 10 figure 4 http://www.harman.com/EN-US/OurCompa...dioScience.pdf We all are human beings ...

There is a funny joke, gentlemen - "don't try to sell me your hearing loss" - it means "the placibo effect rules forever"
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post #27 of 27
5/22/10 at 7:01pm
If you want the wow and punch of the sub and sealed too, then consider eD DIY kits for A7s-650. Twin 13" driver with 1300w plate amp. You just need titebond ii and few clamps to built the cabinet and do your own painting.

I ordered a set to replace my DD-12.
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