Originally Posted by Tony6225
Nobody really cares what a set looks like on a blank input or during credit screens except you I guess.
Speak for yourself! I have encountered other Kuro owners who lament that their Kuros cannot do a total fade to black. That was just one
example. There is plenty of content out there with very low-APL scenes where an OLED would look visibly better than a 500M. There are some scenes which are so dim that you no longer get black bars that blend in with the bezel on the 500M. It is just the opposite. The black bars are not even black, but a dark gray, that blends in with the rest of the scene, which is also a dark gray. The black bars on a Kuro tend to blend in with the bezel when there is also something brighter on the screen. If the APL is not high enough, it is similar to looking at a full-black screen. Make no mistake, the Kuro blacks can certainly
be improved upon.
Considering the fact that the B8500 and the Kuro arent available anymore,
Nonsense. I could go pick up a 55 inch B8500 or a 101FD/141FD/151FD right down the street less than two miles away if I wanted one. I also could order an 8500 online. I don't have any sympathy for whiners in the U.S. who complain that they can't find a Kuro or an 8500. They can be had if you want one bad enough. Those people are just lazy and have some other reason why they are unable to track one down. Oh, and for those who complain that a 55 inch XBR8 cannot be had anymore? Baloney. I could order one in 30 seconds if I wanted to, and have it here by the end of the week.
it just makes you come off as another one of those people who is debating why their set is the best. You seem to imply that your opinions matter more because you've had the chance to view a bunch of different panels side by side in your own house.
Matter more compared to what? No, they do not matter more than the opinions of other Kuro owners who regularly view their displays in the dark. No, they do not matter more than the opinions of others who have seen the Sony XEL-1 OLED like I have.
However, compared to someone like yourself who just speculates in his mind that there is no real difference to be seen below 0.001 ftL? Where is your evidence? Where is your proof? Have you ever seen the blacks on an OLED such as the Sony XEL-1 or the new LG? You are the one who is merely offering opinion. I am offering facts. The facts are simple. Go view a Sony OLED in the dark and then come back and tell us that there is no difference below 0.001 ftL. Go watch a Kuro which is below 0.001 ftL in the dark and tell us no one would notice if it got any darker. Go refute the scientific data out there which says that human eyesight can discern differences at a mere fraction of 0.001 ftL. When you present evidence to the contrary, we can talk about your opinions and how much they matter. Otherwise you are just conjuring up ideas in your head, not backed up with any evidence or even observation for that matter!
When the LG LE8500 was found to have incredibly low black levels like the B8500, except with much better viewing angles, you came out and attacked the credibility of the reviewer (Chad B) because it was described as being very close in quality to the B8500, all despite the fact that you've never actually had one in your house.
I did not attack his credibility, but I did challenge the overall conclusion that he made, and felt it was a result of the hastiness with which he conducts his reviews. And come to find out, after others chimed in, he did what I consider to be the wise thing and modified his findings. That actually boosts his credibility, by showing that he is flexible enough to alter his opinion when new information is brought to his attention.
You also spend a lot of time in the LCD forum telling the C8000 owners why your B8500 is better.
False! You obviously must have me mixed up with someone else. By the way, I don't even have my 8500 anymore, and I am not hounding C8000 LED owners at all. I challenge you to produce all these posts where I am constantly telling the C8000 owners that MY 8500 is better (don't own one any more).
You seem to be in as much denial about certain issues as any of the people you run around and call fanboys for seeing things differently than you.
Examples? Provide examples, please.
I would wager that most people who are willing to buy high end home theater equipment are also willing to dedicate a section of their house to it.
Good for them. I don't begrudge them anything. But Kuros and Sammy 8500's can be had for under $3k, so I don't know where you get the idea that people that can afford $2-3K for a display can also afford to build a dedicated HT room. Furthermore, not everyone wants to go into the HT room just to watch a TV program. Many people just want one TV that works well in their living room or family room.
So not everyone has to make sure its 8pm before they turn on their plasma set to get the best pq out of it.
Never said that was the case. In fact, I could produce for you multiple posts of mine on AVS where I have said exactly as much. For people that have rooms where they can keep the lights away from their screen, or who don't mind darkening the room with curtains during the day, the Kuro would likely be ideally suited for them. But this is not the case for a large percentage of people.
What I dont think you realize, probably since your room is much brighter than average, is that it takes an awful lot of direct light to wash out a plasma with a decent filter.
You are merely conjuring up more speculation in your mind, and have obviously not conducted any real tests, like I have. I have had three different plasma brands with the darkest filters available, and they all washed out quite easily with just a modest amount of light. If you don't believe me, take this challenge. Wait until your room is totally dark and then turn on your plasma and put on a black screen. Then take a lamp at a reasonable distance away, say 12-14 feet, and turn it on. You can move it off to the side a bit so the lamp is not directly reflecting on the screen. Did your blacks not just lighten up? Of course they did. I have tested this on my Kuro myself. Even one lamp anywhere in front of a plasma is enough to lighten up the blacks in a dark room. If your plasma does not visibly lighten up, you must have black levels so high that your plasma is gray to start out with. I challenge all the plasma owners (especially those with Kuros) to do this test. Unless everyone lies, if they conduct the test properly, I think they will agree. I am not alone by the way. Other Kuro owners have stated the same thing on AVS.
Why do you think that many people claimed that they never even noticed that their Panny had rising blacks until all the fuss was made on the forums? Because they obviously watch TV with the lights on or have windows that washout their plasma's blacks during the day. So they were never seeing the true capability of the Panasonic to begin with. Hence the rising blacks were not an issue for them. Others know that their blacks are not as good as before, but they willingly admit that they can never tell the difference during the day. Why is this? Becase too much light is hitting the front of their plasma screen, and they are not enjoying these deep blacks that plasmas are supposed to have in the first place! There are some people on AVS forum (I won't mention any names
) who own a Samsung and willingly admit that they use Cinema Smooth to eliminate 3:2 pulldown judder, with the full knowledge that the blacks are rising when they do this. Their justification? The elevated blacks they get when using Cinema Smooth are not really noticeable during the day when they watch a movie anyhow! Doh! Another case of plasma washout. I think you see why I make such a fuss about this.
It's a dirty little secret that many plasma owners are completely oblivious to, or are in denial about.
I find that during the day time in my house, that my plasmas actually have blacker blacks than they do at night time.
Oh yeah? Why don't you do us a favor and post some pictures of your setup then? I have not been shy about posting pictures of my setup, to justify my contentions, so perhaps now you could do the same.