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*The Official Samsung PNxxC8000 Owner's Discussion Thread!! - Page 88

post #2611 of 5831
10/25/10 at 6:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timinator30 View Post

When people complain or compare black levels...what exactly are they looking at?

It seems like people only talk about the BARS above and below the picture while watching blu-ray, etc. I mean, that has nothing to do with the picture itself. I've never heard anyone actually say something like:

"Man, these blacks aren't very good. The sky isn't as dark as I'd like it to be in Star Wars."

or

"Man, Darth Vader's helmet isn't as dark as it was on my other tv. I'm so bummed!"

It's always about how they want the black bars to disappear in the bezel. But what the hell does that have to do with watching a movie? I bet if the black bars didn't exist, none of us would be able to tell the difference between any televisions black level unless we hooked up equipment to the tv. And that seems to only help someone who visually can't tell a different, but wants bragging rights in the form of a number. Bragging rights that make no sense considering we aren't the ones making the televisions. It's something we chose to buy, not something we created. It's like Samsung vs. Panasonic vs. whoever...is one 'who has the biggest weiner' contest. lol...

Meanwhile, I watched "Predators" on Directv on Demand over the weekend. It's a really good movie that allows you to admire the set. A lot of green colors, red/orange fire and explosions, blues, and several scenes in the dark. A lot of motion as well. I recommend it (decent movie too) for those of you that want to see the amazing images that your tv produces from a 1080p24 source.

I hear ya. I have often tried to compare the bezel, black bars (top/bottom) and black scenes within the picture frame. Its tough because a lot of what we see (judge) is relative as the eye can't make an acurate measurement.

For me, the most important viewing benifits come from an image that dosen't offend the viewers. I.e. white whites, black blacks, no noise etc... but again all the picture qualities are working together (hopfully) to present the image. Accuracy is important as a reference of course.
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post #2612 of 5831
10/25/10 at 10:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by walke108 View Post

My 2nd 8000 arrived today via Pilot (purchased through Amazon) and guess what....another cracked screen. I will try one last time for a replacement and then I will refund my purchase. I will not be purchasing any t.v.'s through Amazon in future. Hopefully people will learn from my mistake. The good thing is I don't think it will take a week for the replacement order to go through. It seems like she created the replacement order right away. Hopefully 3rd time is a charm!

3rd time is a charm. Got my tv last Friday, and the box and tv were both in perfect condition. I am very happy with the 63pn8000C thus far. No buzzing whatsoever, picture is great and have been tweaking the settings all weekend. I went with the Cnet version for the Movie mode, and one of the other sites for the Cal-Day. Surprisingly the 3D is much cooler than I thought. It definitely adds a different dimension. I will only use that 10% of the time but it is still fun to watch at night. I watched a 3D football game this weekend for a little bit and that was pretty cool as well. I have no complaints thus far, but am not a techno-nut like most of you. I could not get the Cinema smooth running at first but then just realized I didn't have my Blu-Ray setting correct (had composite versus HDMI) so will try Avatar tonight. I am sure I will be blown away. Overall, very happy with the purchase. If I had to do it over again, I would not have bought it online though...although it was definitely cheaper.
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post #2613 of 5831
10/25/10 at 11:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by walke108 View Post

3rd time is a charm. Got my tv last Friday, and the box and tv were both in perfect condition. I am very happy with the 63pn8000C thus far. No buzzing whatsoever, picture is great and have been tweaking the settings all weekend. I went with the Cnet version for the Movie mode, and one of the other sites for the Cal-Day. Surprisingly the 3D is much cooler than I thought. It definitely adds a different dimension. I will only use that 10% of the time but it is still fun to watch at night. I watched a 3D football game this weekend for a little bit and that was pretty cool as well. I have no complaints thus far, but am not a techno-nut like most of you. I could not get the Cinema smooth running at first but then just realized I didn't have my Blu-Ray setting correct (had composite versus HDMI) so will try Avatar tonight. I am sure I will be blown away. Overall, very happy with the purchase. If I had to do it over again, I would not have bought it online though...although it was definitely cheaper.

walke108, did your first TV buzz? I'm probably going to get an exchange on mine since the blacks are crap and the buzz is somewhat irritating, the blacks are a dull-gray I wouldn't even call them black. How are your blacks?
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post #2614 of 5831
10/26/10 at 5:23am
Please DO NOT use cinema smooth!!!! The picture will be super washed out and very grey backs!!! Read cnet's update on the pn50c8000
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post #2615 of 5831
10/26/10 at 6:21am
What is the negative impact of turning Cinema Smooth off? If there is a rise in black levels with it on....if you turn it off, what happens?
And, could a firmware correct this?
Furthermore, how many of us even noticed it? Not me.
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post #2616 of 5831
10/26/10 at 7:06am
Personally, when I think of black levels, I think of how much detail I can pick out of dark scenes in movies that use a lot of dark imagery, like Sin City, The Spirit, Blade, Blade Runner, and the like.
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post #2617 of 5831
10/26/10 at 7:25am
They say u might see some motion judder when watching blu rays.like when a camera pans a battle field or any fast camera panning.cuz blu rays are 24p and ur tv is 30p
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post #2618 of 5831
10/26/10 at 7:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by walke108 View Post

3rd time is a charm. ..... Overall, very happy with the purchase. If I had to do it over again, I would not have bought it online though...although it was definitely cheaper.

I hope I can come back and post the same exact message! Deefinitely a lot cheaper online, but the hassle is starting to outweigh the cost benefits....
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post #2619 of 5831
10/26/10 at 8:11am
I don't want to turn this into a debate/discussion over retailers, but are any of you guys using EastCoastTVs.com? From what I've heard, they come in, set it up, and if it buzzes or are otherwise not happy with it, you simply refuse it and they'll try another one -- or, you can get a different brand/model, or you can get a refund (minus 10% restocking fee if you go that route).

I was thinking about going that route, but if any of you guys are going with them, and are not able to do that, I'll reconsider.
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post #2620 of 5831
10/26/10 at 8:38am
We are just starting to use this set--change from a XBR CRT--with the mantisboxer settings. On DVD over HDMI seeing lines at the juncture of white and black from a recent black and white movie. The image is 1080i from an old Denon 5910 through a Denon AVR. Any ideas about correcting this? Thanks!
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post #2621 of 5831
10/26/10 at 12:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxmastermushxx View Post

walke108, did your first TV buzz? I'm probably going to get an exchange on mine since the blacks are crap and the buzz is somewhat irritating, the blacks are a dull-gray I wouldn't even call them black. How are your blacks?

I am unsure if the first and second tv buzzed because they both had huge cracks and had to refuse delivery on both. My blacks look great.
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post #2622 of 5831
10/26/10 at 12:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dada8787 View Post

also is it possible to know when samsung will come out with next line of 3D plasmas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by richard0ne View Post

January. Usually you'll see a taste of what's to come during CES.

No, CES is in early Jan.; and then the TVs follow, typically, no earlier than mid-Feb., for any manufacturer. Even then, it is only their lowest-priced that are released first.

We don't know how inexpensive a 3DTV Samsung will release, so we don't when we'll see the first one in '11.

If the person wants to know when Samsung's top-of-the-line TV will be released, it is, typically, the last third of May; so ~7 mos. from now.
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post #2623 of 5831
10/26/10 at 1:23pm
long time Lurker who is too lazy to search. Could someone please tell me the major differences between the 8000 vs the 7000 series?

I am debating on whether or not to go with the 50 8000 or step up to the 58 7000 for a little bit more. Good decision IYO?
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post #2624 of 5831
10/26/10 at 1:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jader201 View Post

I don't want to turn this into a debate/discussion over retailers, but are any of you guys using EastCoastTVs.com? From what I've heard, they come in, set it up, and if it buzzes or are otherwise not happy with it, you simply refuse it and they'll try another one -- or, you can get a different brand/model, or you can get a refund (minus 10% restocking fee if you go that route).

I was thinking about going that route, but if any of you guys are going with them, and are not able to do that, I'll reconsider.

I got mine from them a few weeks ago. Aside from some difficulty in getting advance information about the delivery date, everything went perfectly. the total elapsed time from order to delivery was 8 days. They arrived with my tv, carried it in, opened the box. We plugged it in and everything worked. I didn't spend time looking for problems other than those likely to be caused by shipping. I have no buzz but I imagine if I'd heard some, I could have refused delivery.
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post #2625 of 5831
10/26/10 at 1:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by walke108 View Post

I am unsure if the first and second tv buzzed because they both had huge cracks and had to refuse delivery on both. My blacks look great.

Walk color would you describe your blacks, are they LCD black? My blacks are a dull-gray, and are lighter then my LCD's. My buzzing isn't as bad as it was, or I just got used to it, either way I'll keep it, but the blacks are really pathetic. Any ideas?
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post #2626 of 5831
10/26/10 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxmastermushxx View Post

Walk color would you describe your blacks, are they LCD black? My blacks are a dull-gray, and are lighter then my LCD's. My buzzing isn't as bad as it was, or I just got used to it, either way I'll keep it, but the blacks are really pathetic. Any ideas?

You were asked several times by a few different people including me. HAve you tried toggling Movie mode or turned Game mode on and off?
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post #2627 of 5831
10/26/10 at 1:52pm
xxmastermushxx, you have a 50" plasma, right? Note that the black levels are lighter on this panel than on the larger ones. How much lighter is a matter of perspective, however. If you're viewing an all-black screen in a dark room and are expecting the 50" screen to be a deep black that doesn't glow a bit, I'm afraid you're setting yourself up for disappointment. (I still consider this black, personally - it's not light enough for me to call it gray.) However, if you're watching something with a lot more contrast on it and see black in the picture (e.g., a night-time outdoor scene in a movie), it should truly look black, provided that (a) your brightness levels aren't set too high and (b) your video source isn't raising the black levels. Furthermore, an all-black screen will look better to most people's eyes if there's some light in the room, especially if it's behind or around the TV.

If this is not the case for you - if your TV can't produce black - it's time to start looking at some test patterns with a "blacker-than-black" range or pluge (i.e., a grayscale that includes values lower than 16). If you can't find a way to properly calibrate your TV's blacks using the brightness and contrast controls, and the black levels aren't being inflated by whatever is producing or passing the video image to the TV (e.g., a DVD player, PS3, AV receiver, cable box, etc.), then your TV might be defective. Hopefully, you can rule that out.
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post #2628 of 5831
10/26/10 at 2:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LevityNYC View Post

You were asked several times by a few different people including me. HAve you tried toggling Movie mode or turned Game mode on and off?


xxmastermushxx,
I was one of those people as well...Edit ( I reapplied my post again to make it easier for you) Here you go : My set is exactly the same as yours down to build month and version number. I also initially was unimpressed with black level performance. It seemed my set needed to be "toggled" to get proper blacks. The method I used was to turn game mode on then off when in movie mode and then cycle through picture settings (cal day, cal night, dynamic etc... until you get back to movie mode.) This always resulted in proper black levels on my set; so you may want to try that.

Also what firmware version do you have? The 1030 update seems to have helped with overall picture quality on my set so plug an ethernet cable to your set and update the firmware. Jackdaw makes some great points as well; by the way plasma has a faint glow on a black screen with no signal, it is something that I did not understand either. When a picture is displayed that glow is no longer visible. This is how a plasma works.

The LED/LCD blacks with no signal turn off the back or side lighting giving you a pitch black screen; however with an active picture you get light leakage, clouding, blooming , and non-uniform blacks. I know, I returned a un55c8000 set for my pn58c8000 and never looked back.

Like Jackdaw says the 50 inch models don't seem to be achieving as deep of blacks as the 58/63 inch models and we don't know why. I think Koffas posted that compiled info (he is very organized). If your set is the 50 inch it is what it is and you may be out of luck, but if you apply the things I suggested they may help.
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post #2629 of 5831
10/26/10 at 2:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sedream128 View Post

Please DO NOT use cinema smooth!!!! The picture will be super washed out and very grey backs!!! Read cnet's update on the pn50c8000

Thanks, didn't see that update.
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post #2630 of 5831
10/26/10 at 2:42pm
I just have to give my 2 cents on this whole black issue and IR issue when it comes to the 50C8000 and the 63C8000. I own both. I have the 50 in the bedroom, and the 63 in the main room. I have not noticed any difference between the two. I have the same Mantis settings on both, both use Cal-Night, Have played the same movie on both, and also DVR the same show. I cant tell a difference between the two. Watched Dark Knight and Avatar on both, and i really cant notice a difference. Now i dont have the tools to measure it, but It looks the same to me. Also i wonder if the 50C8000 measurements are old, because i remember when i think it was 1024 came out, it improved blacks. So maybe those readings are old on the 50". I dunno, i cant measure them, but they look the same.

Also on IR, i haven't noticed a difference on either. I put the giants game on both TVs Saturday night, and then after a few innings during the commercial i put on the side scrolling image since thats the easiest way for me to see IR, and they were the same. The 63 has more hours on it, since i use that one more.

So I mean maybe the 63 measures darker, and i dont have to the tools to measure, but I cant tell a difference. My only guess is maybe those 50" havent been updated or where on Dynamic which really brightens the TV.

I will try and get a couple of ppl over this week to move the 50 to the 63, so i can get Side by Side shots and post them.
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post #2631 of 5831
10/26/10 at 3:37pm
Quote:


xxmastermushxx, you have a 50" plasma, right?

No, I do not have the 50", I have a PN58C8000, the 58".

Quote:


It seemed my set needed to be "toggled" to get proper blacks. The method I used was to turn game mode on then off when in movie mode and then cycle through picture settings (cal day, cal night, dynamic etc... until you get back to movie mode.) This always resulted in proper black levels on my set; so you may want to try that.

Yes, I've tried toggling game mode, MJC, dynamic contrast, cycling CAL-Day and CAL-Night, and doing a reset of the TV...no go.

Quote:


Also what firmware version do you have?

I have 1030.1, that's what the TV said when it downloaded and applied the update.

Quote:


The LED/LCD blacks with no signal turn off the back or side lighting giving you a pitch black screen; however with an active picture you get light leakage, clouding, blooming , and non-uniform blacks. I know, I returned a un55c8000 set for my pn58c8000 and never looked back.

This is exactly why I got a refund for my LCD, and I was expecting awesome blacks for this TV. People on this forum raved about the blacks being around 0.008-0.009 fL.

Question: When I'm running the break-in slides and the 0 IRE slide (I assume it's 0 IRE) plays, the screen turns off, it still buzzes but I know the pixels aren't active.

When the TV is first turned on and the "no signal" screen appears, the blacks are the dull-gray I experience in movies, games, any content with black in it.

Update: I didn't actually "toggle" my set in the exact order your specified, I'll try that tonight and report back.
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post #2632 of 5831
10/26/10 at 4:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxmastermushxx View Post

No, I do not have the 50", I have a PN58C8000, the 58".



Yes, I've tried toggling game mode, MJC, dynamic contrast, cycling CAL-Day and CAL-Night, and doing a reset of the TV...no go.



I have 1030.1, that's what the TV said when it downloaded and applied the update.



This is exactly why I got a refund for my LCD, and I was expecting awesome blacks for this TV. People on this forum raved about the blacks being around 0.008-0.009 fL.

Question: When I'm running the break-in slides and the 0 IRE slide (I assume it's 0 IRE) plays, the screen turns off, it still buzzes but I know the pixels aren't active.

When the TV is first turned on and the "no signal" screen appears, the blacks are the dull-gray I experience in movies, games, any content with black in it.

Update: I didn't actually "toggle" my set in the exact order your specified, I'll try that tonight and report back.



Actually, I don't think the order of toggling matters simply turn game mode on and off while in movie mode then cycle through your picture settings. If you did this you may be out of luck.

The no signal screen is what you and I are talking about; my set is not grey, it is black but has a glow to it. What I have learned about plasma is when there is not an active picture you get that; however, when you get any picture with content it changes that and blacks appear black.

I think you and I are on the same page and you are experiencing the same feeling I had; however with time the black levels actually get better with the set. At about 150-200 hours on my set that glow seemed even less. We are not going to get CRT blacks with these sets, I first owned a sony 36xbr800 with the best blacks I have seen, but those sets only allowed up to 1080i and of course size and weight was a problem.

My suggestion is to put some hours on the set and watch some content with night scenes or something like Underworld Rise of the Lycans and I think you will be impressed. All black screens will give you that black "glow" thats just the way these sets work. I hope this helps.
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post #2633 of 5831
10/26/10 at 4:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by punisherofall View Post

Actually, I don't think the order of toggling matters simply turn game mode on and off while in movie mode then cycle through your picture settings. If you did this you may be out of luck.

The no signal screen is what you and I are talking about; my set is not grey, it is black but has a glow to it. What I have learned about plasma is when there is not an active picture you get that; however, when you get any picture with content it changes that and blacks appear black.

I think you and I are on the same page and you are experiencing the same feeling I had; however with time the black levels actually get better with the set. At about 150-200 hours on my set that glow seemed even less. We are not going to get CRT blacks with these sets, I first owned a sony 36xbr800 with the best blacks I have seen, but those sets only allowed up to 1080i and of course size and weight was a problem.

My suggestion is to put some hours on the set and watch some content with night scenes or something like Underworld Rise of the Lycans and I think you will be impressed. All black screens will give you that black "glow" thats just the way these sets work. I hope this helps.

Yeah, it has a "glow" to it, that's a good way of describing it. I've put about...oh....70 hours on it so far by using break-in pictures. I still have 25 days for a return/exchange if blacks/buzzing don't get any better.

Thanks
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post #2634 of 5831
10/26/10 at 6:21pm
Yay! I finally just took delivery of my TV today so I'm officially in the club. I just wanted to chime in my AWESOME experience with US Appliance.

Placed the order for the 63-8000 late 10/19.

Got the email/receipt confirmation on 10/20
Got the email that the item was shipping on 10/21
Got a call yesterday on 10/25 by R&L Carriers
Got the TV today 10/26.

The delivery guy was only one guy but he knew what he was doing. The box for the TV is a lot bigger than I thought... there appeared to be a slight bump/tear on the bottom edge of the box so I asked the guy if I could open it for a quick inspection. We pulled the four clips, lifted the cover and I made sure the panel wasn't cracked - it wasn't!

I got the TV inside, plugged it in and everything works great!

Out of the box, this set is amazing. The blacks are deep (so dark that I can see reflections of the lamp next to me. The blacks are also darker than the surrounding panel.) I don't currently have cable - and this TV was able to pick up OTA HD channels that my old DLP set could not - an unexpected, welcoming surprise!

Also as far as I can tell, no noticeable buzz and no vertical banding. If I want to be picky, I can see some horizontal/squares when the screen is all white but it's not anything too noticeable. The colors are already 100 times better than my old DLP set and I loved my Samsung DLP set. I haven't played with Game mode just yet and I am not sure what firmware the TV currently has - but I will be updating it pretty soon.

I would highly recommend US Appliance and R&L Carriers. The experience could not have gone smoother and I saved hundreds in the process. I always hoped that "smooth delivery" would be the norm. I'm glad it is.
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post #2635 of 5831
10/26/10 at 6:21pm
why is the option for cinema smooth dull and unble to use. in otherwords there but cant enter that setting

thanks
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post #2636 of 5831
10/26/10 at 6:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by QZ1 View Post

No, CES is in early Jan.; and then the TVs follow, typically, no earlier than mid-Feb., for any manufacturer. Even then, it is only their lowest-priced that are released first.

We don't know how inexpensive a 3DTV Samsung will release, so we don't when we'll see the first one in '11.

If the person wants to know when Samsung's top-of-the-line TV will be released, it is, typically, the last third of May; so ~7 mos. from now.

+ 1 QZ1 knows his stuff. CES is just around the corner and always a fun time
Cleveland Plasma Insider
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post #2637 of 5831
10/26/10 at 8:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxmastermushxx View Post

Question: When I'm running the break-in slides and the 0 IRE slide (I assume it's 0 IRE) plays, the screen turns off, it still buzzes but I know the pixels aren't active.

Ah, yes. My TV is doing that, too, even though Eco settings are all off. (I play my slides via a USB stick.)

I wish you lots of luck sorting out your black level concerns. Can you post any photos that depict them well?
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post #2638 of 5831
10/26/10 at 10:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackdaw View Post

Ah, yes. My TV is doing that, too, even though Eco settings are all off. (I play my slides via a USB stick.)

I wish you lots of luck sorting out your black level concerns. Can you post any photos that depict them well?

No, I can't, my camera can't capture the gray black, it would just come out BLACK.
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post #2639 of 5831
10/26/10 at 10:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicago66 View Post

why is the option for cinema smooth dull and unble to use. in otherwords there but cant enter that setting

thanks

It's only an option with a 24p source to enable playback at 96hz to remove frame interpolation. Don't forget to read the manual and search the forum
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post #2640 of 5831
10/26/10 at 11:28pm
That's GREAT to hear.....

Placed order for 63/8000 10:30pm 10/15.

Received email/receipt confirmation 11:19am 10/19
Received email that the item was shipping 4:20pm 10/22 "Delay due to out of stock BDC6800"
Called R&L carriers the other night 10/25 to check on delivery status..
They said to call back after 9:00am to set up delivery..
Called back 9:30am 10/26 and delivery is set for 10:30am 10/27

Hopefully I can attest to the great service and shipping from U.S Appliance/R&L Carriers..

One question for you, just curious what’s the build date on your set??

Thanks,
SHOC



Quote:
Originally Posted by kappaknight View Post

Yay! I finally just took delivery of my TV today so I'm officially in the club. I just wanted to chime in my AWESOME experience with US Appliance.

Placed the order for the 63-8000 late 10/19.

Got the email/receipt confirmation on 10/20
Got the email that the item was shipping on 10/21
Got a call yesterday on 10/25 by R&L Carriers
Got the TV today 10/26.

The delivery guy was only one guy but he knew what he was doing. The box for the TV is a lot bigger than I thought... there appeared to be a slight bump/tear on the bottom edge of the box so I asked the guy if I could open it for a quick inspection. We pulled the four clips, lifted the cover and I made sure the panel wasn't cracked - it wasn't!

I got the TV inside, plugged it in and everything works great!

Out of the box, this set is amazing. The blacks are deep (so dark that I can see reflections of the lamp next to me. The blacks are also darker than the surrounding panel.) I don't currently have cable - and this TV was able to pick up OTA HD channels that my old DLP set could not - an unexpected, welcoming surprise!

Also as far as I can tell, no noticeable buzz and no vertical banding. If I want to be picky, I can see some horizontal/squares when the screen is all white but it's not anything too noticeable. The colors are already 100 times better than my old DLP set and I loved my Samsung DLP set. I haven't played with Game mode just yet and I am not sure what firmware the TV currently has - but I will be updating it pretty soon.

I would highly recommend US Appliance and R&L Carriers. The experience could not have gone smoother and I saved hundreds in the process. I always hoped that "smooth delivery" would be the norm. I'm glad it is.
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