Official GOOGLE TV Thread - Page 8

Wow...how many high-bitrate .mkv's can 40gb hold? What's that? It doesn't play .mkv files? So....WebTV 2.0. Alright then.

I have to say I don't really even understand what DLNA is despite having several devices that support it. Can my MediaSmartServer act as a DLNA device so this thing can find it and its files?

To be fair, I think support for mkv files is a corner case that is not a deal breaker for most people (outside of AVS). The 40gb fat32 restriction is a bigger drawback, but there is the 'workaround' of getting a DLNA router and hooking up an external HDD to the router. Which involves more money and more devices where things could go wrong.

That is totally and completely untrue. Super high bitrate MKV's may be somewhat niche, but MKV is arguably the most popular container in use today. It's this gen's divx.


Regardless, I'm sure some level of MKV support will hit GoogleTV in the future.

slightly OT...sorry:
I had to view a divx file once years ago. I have yet to see an MKV file. I'm sure MKV is popular, but only within a specific use that is not widely popular. Actually exactly where is MKV widely used? Serious question, not trying to troll or anything . For putting an entire movie collection onto an HDD? If so that's definitely a niche group of users.
When I get a blank recording from Directv, I download the show to my computer and it's AVI. Home movies from my HD camcorder are mt2s.

Some home surveillance IP cameras such as the Compro IP540 record videos in MKV format.

Almost all HD scene releases are in MKV format (Note that downloading scene releases may be illegal in the US, but not in Europe and other places, where it is legal to have the scene release in case you have a copy of the original Blu-Ray / DVD)

It is certainly the most popular and is analogous to divx/mp3 in video/audio. It is also difficult to support given its flexibility, but more importantly it is the pirate's tool of choice and for that reason people are extremely careful when mentioning mkv support. It does not bring nice warm and fuzzy feelings to the content providers. Google does have to have partnerships with a lot of content providers and I suspect the mkv word is brought up in a disparaging way.

As far as ads, I never said they were introducing new ads on Google TV ( whatever that is). I simply said they were promoting ads. They have come out with yet another device to access the ad ridden web, on top of the 30% ad ridden TV. Sounds great.

I admit to be somewhat confused here. I don't have good grip on what they are trying to do. All I see is an increasingly ad driven world and it's something I'd like to avoid.

Someone mentioned ads on the Boxee Box. Wasn't that the PopBox?

philip

To the best of my knowledge those all cost thousands of dollars and need custom programming.


Has PCWorld used it to control other devices? Then I'll be convinced. Everything from Logitech has been vague, all their demos have been limited, and their screen shots show nothing more than TV, Receiver and STBs. The lack of insight on their support forum is also telling. They are not answering any questions that can't easily be answered from the limited info on their web site.

You can do much better with judicious shopping however it is true that sophisticated tools can require more setup that simple-minded ones. Personally I find it easier to program my URC remotes than the Harmony One I configured.

For what it is worth you can control all of this with irule (has it's own thread in AVS). I am not a power user, but I control several components and have an ip camera that it serves up on an ipad. It can do light etc but I have not had the patience to figure that out yet. My hole setup cost about $300 which is comparable to a harmony remote but for me much more powerful. My Wife can use it all too so that is a plus!

In regards to the negative comments about this device, it seems to me that all the things people don't think this can do will be resolved once the app store becomes available. For example, support for file formats (MKV,etc.). An app can be developed to do this, can it not? Also, as far as DVR integration with other STBs, a Logitech person posted on their site that DVR integration with other STBs is coming.

So, again, I understand if you don't want to be an early adopter (especially because of the price), but I still think the potential for this thing is huge. It seems like the hardware is very powerful and it's just a matter of developing software to do whatever you can dream up.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the main advantages of mkv is with regards to audio? Does any other format support Dolby TrueHD and DTS MA? I guess for me, if I can't have a digital copy that has the same features and quality, I'll just put my blu ray in....yes I still buy all my movies and just rip them myself. MKV is not just a pirate format....the same statements used to be said about mp3, divx, etc.

Of course is is not just a pirate format. Neither is mp3. But, it is by far the most popular HD pirate tool. That is a fact. That doesn't mean it isn't used for legitimate reasons. It's very flexible ( subtitles for example) and is well supported on Linux and Windows. It has less support on Mac's, but that is improving slightly.

Philip

Let me open a can of worms here. (maybe)

I'm very interested in the Revue and the Boxee Box and I picked this up on another forum:

"Boxee has no internet browser

Boxee has no remote control for other devices.

Boxee can't utilize any music that is protected by DRM

Boxee can't use a Keyboard with integrated mouse that is included with it

Boxee can't use Web Cams

Boxee can't view Security Cam

Boxee cant be used as Wireless N Ethernet Bridge

Boxee is not an open source Project that will allow anyone to create programs or apps for it

Boxee has not reached out to other TV Service Providers to further deepen the content possibilities.

Boxxe will not do do side by side Internet and TV viewing on one screen

Thats just a start of what Boxee cant do and what Revue can. That easily offsets the price difference between the 2.



And it also does not have a Coax port on it to allow for OTA or Cable tuning."


Is this true?

I still feel that the main reason for mkv is to preserve the best quality audio and included the most features. To call it just a popular pirate tool doesn't do much to legitimize it as a mainstream format.

"Boxee has no internet browser"
Who cares. Like families sit around and read digg together...

Boxee has no remote control for other devices.
Thats why god made universal remotes....

Boxee can't utilize any music that is protected by DRM
DRM music is the work of Satan. Since Boxee is right with Jesus, it doesn't support the devils playground....

Boxee can't use a Keyboard with integrated mouse that is included with it.
Boxee has a nice little keyboard with the remote.

Boxee can't use Web Cams /Boxee can't view Security Cams
Because its an entertainment device, not a stalkers wet dream?

Boxee cant be used as Wireless N Ethernet Bridge
Because its an entertainment device, not a hackers wet dream?

Boxee is not an open source Project that will allow anyone to create programs or apps for it
BULLSH%T
"Boxee features a Python Scripts Engine and WindowXML application framework (a XML-based widget toolkit for creating a GUI for widgets) in a similar fashion to Apple Mac OS X Dashboard Widgets and Microsoft Gadgets in Windows Sidebar. Python widget scripts allow non-developers to themselves create new add-ons functionality to Boxee, (using the easier to learn Python programming language), without knowledge of the complex C/C++ programming language that the rest of the Boxee software is written in. Current plugin scripts add-ons include functions like Internet-TV and movie-trailer browsers, cinema guides, Internet-radio-station browsers (example SHOUTcast), and much more."

Boxee has not reached out to other TV Service Providers to further deepen the content possibilities.
Like there is even a reasonable amount of viable options out there. Netflix is the only one I would pay for.

Boxxe will not do do side by side Internet and TV viewing on one screen.
Does anybody really care?

Yeah I saw this on the Logitech forums too.


not a traditional browser, but it does have a "Boxee browser" that's just for browsing video content. It's not ideal tho. They could easily implement one based on Webkit since some underlying apps run on it.


True.


neither can Google TV.


It can use a keyboard and a remote that has mouse functionality on it.. because I have one. So I don't see how it wouldn't be able to use a keyboard with a touchpad.



True.


If the security cam is online, then see above above re: browser


Unsure.


Boxee IS open source and runs partly on open source XBMC code allowing anyone to create apps for it, actually, and they do.


There's currently 210 video "channels" of content in the official Boxee repository - a lot with official Boxee apps (Netflix, Revision3, Vimeo, MLB.tv, etc).


True, since it doesn't interact with a STB.


Google TV doesn't do OTA, and it doesn't interact with your cable box (it has some limited interactivity with Dish tho).

It will be interesting to see if the Chrome browser on the Revue will be able to play videos from all the network websites. That's a use case that would be very useful that the Revue *might* have over the Boxee. I'm not sure if the Boxee 'browser' has the same capabilities as the Revue.

Netflix is not available on the Boxee...

Boxee can play any of the videos from the network websites (using HTML5 in most cases), and it integrates seamlessly into the videos section of Boxee. In the TV section, for example, you search for whatever TV show you want, and if it's on Hulu, Netflix or a network's site, it'll give you the option to play it from any of those.

For those with questions about Boxee, you can download it on your PC/Mac/Linux box and try it out. It's free.

And yes, Netflix is available on Boxee. Boxee and Netflix are working on getting the HD Netflix streams implemented, but SD is working fine.

Keith, you're driving yourself crazy here. You need to let it go and move on. Let me break the bad news to you...the Revue will not control your Blu-ray player. Think about it...not only does the keyboard/remote not have a button to directly switch to that device, it also lacks keys to control subtitles and other advanced features. The keyboard does not have an LCD display with "virtual" buttons like most other Harmony remotes, so how exactly would you control those things? Map subtitle toggle to the letter "Q" on the keyboard? Save yourself some grief and just assume that the keyboard is *not* a high-end Harmony remote replacement. If anything, it might be close to the Harmony 300 in terms of functionality.

I think when people mention Boxee in this thread they mean the Boxee Box. The Boxee Box has not officially stated that there is Netflix support. Hopefully that will change by the time it's released or soon after. Until then I count it as no Netflix on the Boxee Box.

Thanks everyone.

True.. the Boxee box is running Linux. I think the only option might be a Moonlight implementation.

If one of the currently provided controllers was the only way to control the Revue that might be true (or not). The question isn't what can it do today the question is will Logitech follow through on the implication in their description of the Revue as a device that can "control all your entertainment devices". It's completely misleading if the Revue "can control" but Logitech never exposes an interface beyond the current controllers/apps so you can make use of that control.

The quality issue may be why you use it, but mkv does have a perception problem within the content provider group. Keep in mind that that group is being dragged into the digital era by force. They do not want video and book publishing to go the way of the music industry. I really would be surprised to see mkv become a widespread mainstream format, but you never know. The fewer formats there are the easier it is to keep control of the distribution. Perhaps the whole thing won't be settled until there is a definitive case in the U.S. which deals with backing up DVD's that one has purchased. The legal status of that seems to be unclear, unlike other places where it is definitely legal.

It's going to be a DRM world unfortunately. Information has become a commodity and copyrights, patents, etc ...are flooding the planet. It's almost as bad as the ad situation, which is truly scary.

Philip

It's odd that people are comparing the Boxee Box with Logitech's Google TV thing. They are completely different. Google TV wants to get right into the main input/output of TV. The Boxee Box doesn't seem to be aiming for that at all, but is more in the spirit of other media players. The big appeal of the Boxee Box is it's relationship to XBMC and hence it's excellent GUI, which appeals to those who might otherwise use an HTPC. It's pretty easy to imagine what one might do with a Boxee Box. Google TV sounds like one large squid that just swallowed your entertainment centre and is now after the complete room and viewers. It may very well be neat, but to me it sounds like a nightmare which is something that no other media device has been able to induce.

Philip

[sarcasm]
It is completely impossible to use the iPhone/Android app to get every single button for any device the Harmony can control working on your Revue. Clearly that cannot be achieved.

It is similarly beyond comprehension that soft-button support could be provided by an on-screen item you could bring up. Also not even possible.
[/sarcasm]

Criticize the Revue all you want, but it sounds to me like it can do whatever a Harmony can. One way or the other.

Indeed, and its free to get developmental softerware for PC/Mac/Linux.



A snide comment like that is only going to make people ignore what you have to say, if you want that - keep it up.

Families might want to sit around and watch picture albums, if they are of the grand children. Or family videos on youtube. Or movies from dubious websites etc. A full browser is necessary for many even if you don't want one.




Hell no, we are not talking about stuff running on a PC - but a hardware implementation in or under the TV.


These could be displayed on the TV - super imposed over the picture - the chip can decode two full HD streams at once so its not as if the picture would suffer.
And on your Android phone/tab you just add more buttons by drawing one.





The official Divx people use it. When they had to make the jump to HD they had to consider if they wanted to keep using AVI containers, which are old and not very flexible or start using the MKV container which is newer and designed to hold multiple video and audio streams, plus any number of subtitles and private data streams. And so they did. They still call it DIVX when its in a MKV container.

I fail to see why MKV shouldn't be a mainstream format, there is no reason not to.




More and more is going to be streaming only, since they hope people can't figure out how to copy that.


Perhaps you should donate a few bucks to this guy then
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...media-filter-0




I'll repeat: ANDROID - the Firefox people just released a beta version of Firefox for Android phones - ie you can use that browser instead of the default one.

The moment they open for the market on Google TV - you can start running the Firefox browser instead.






Yay!

well obviously.. but people are asking questions that can easily be answered by actually downloading the software and trying it out, which is why I mentioned it.


yeah, except it's crap. Use Dolphin HD if you want a real browser alternative on Android.

That's exactly what I've been saying, but people are arguing with me based on vague buzzwords from the marketing department. That's all I've been trying to point out to people.

A lot of people have been saying it's a replacement for Harmony remotes, and so far as I can tell it's not, and I just think people should be aware of that. And I'm disappointed in it. I don't like the fact that they keep touting it's "Harmony" support as if it's some significant.


Bleh. I don't mind using my phone on occasion, but it'd be a damn shame to have to use it all the time, same with that keyboard.

One thing I'd like to know is will my 890 operate it. I prefer remotes with physical buttons that can be operated by one hand without looking at it.