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Official GOOGLE TV Thread - Page 9

post #241 of 1827
I don't see why your 890 would not work.
post #242 of 1827
In one of the demo videos I saw, the Logitech guy said that the most expensive Logitech remote technology was inside the Google TV keyboard controller. If that is true, why would they remove the ability to create macros and activities? I don't know the answer, I'm just asking the question. I posted this very question to Logitech's forum, but have not received a response yet.
post #243 of 1827
Quote:
Originally Posted by lament View Post

well obviously.. but people are asking questions that can easily be answered by actually downloading the software and trying it out, which is why I mentioned it.

Well its not a normal operating system running on the box is it? So there could be differences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lament View Post

yeah, except it's crap. Use Dolphin HD if you want a real browser alternative on Android.

That wasn't the point.
(Its the first beta, of course its not going to be perfect yet)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Mickunas View Post

Bleh. I don't mind using my phone on occasion, but it'd be a damn shame to have to use it all the time, same with that keyboard.

Hm, well it depends on how often you use it i suppose - my phone is never out of reach

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Mickunas View Post

One thing I'd like to know is will my 890 operate it. I prefer remotes with physical buttons that can be operated by one hand without looking at it.

Yeah I know what you mean, there are certain things where I most definitely want physical keys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dack70 View Post

In one of the demo videos I saw, the Logitech guy said that the most expensive Logitech remote technology was inside the Google TV keyboard controller. If that is true, why would they remove the ability to create macros and activities? I don't know the answer, I'm just asking the question. I posted this very question to Logitech's forum, but have not received a response yet.

Well, you can create activities that was demoed.
post #244 of 1827
Quote:
Originally Posted by dack70 View Post

In one of the demo videos I saw, the Logitech guy said that the most expensive Logitech remote technology was inside the Google TV keyboard controller. If that is true, why would they remove the ability to create macros and activities? I don't know the answer, I'm just asking the question. I posted this very question to Logitech's forum, but have not received a response yet.

Harmony Remotes don't really support macros. They support activities, but not macros, in the traditional sense.
post #245 of 1827
The CNET live blog said the presenter mentioned DLNA using Twonky from the Revue. I now use Twonky to stream from a G5 Mac to a BDP-83. Is there any possibility that the Revue could stream to the OPPO if both were connected to the same router by ethernet. ron
post #246 of 1827
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post

Harmony Remotes don't really support macros. They support activities, but not macros, in the traditional sense.

This misconception is no doubt due to the minimalist approach taken by Harmony (Logitech). Of the seven current models four support sequences -- but not if you want RF*. Per harmony-remote-forum.de.

Quote:


Logitech has elected to use the term "sequence" to describe the ability to string multiple remote controller commands together and assign them to a single button press despite the long standardized use of the term "macro" that most universal remotes use to describe the same. In addtion, where there is no practical limit on the number of commands most universal remotes allow per macro, Logitech limits the maximum number of commands per macro to five.

*I looked into this when I was getting a remote for my in-laws. I settled on the Harmony One. Which it turns out they don't much care for.
post #247 of 1827
post #248 of 1827
Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post


Harmony Remotes don't really support macros. They support activities, but not macros, in the traditional sense.

I'm getting a little confused about the terminology here. Activites. Macros. Sequences. Here is what I would like to know. Using the large Revue keyboard or the small one, can I assign a number of sequences to a button? For example:

1. Turn on tv
2. Turn on Blu-Ray player
3. Turn on receiver
4. Set receiver to DVD input
Etc...

I already own a logitech harmony remote (xbox edition) and it recognizes all of my equipment. Also, my harmony can do way more than 5 sequences. Can the revue controllers do all of this?
post #249 of 1827
Quote:
Originally Posted by dack70 View Post

Activites. Macros. Sequences.

Activities look sort of like macros in that they're multiple commands sent for a single button press. But they're bound to the "Activity" context. It's clear the Revue supports Activities but so far we've only seen Activities using a display, a set-top box and an AVR. No BD, no DVD, no Popcorn Hour etc. etc.

Sequences are what everyone else call macros so they should be unconstrained or context free.

Here's a comment from Harmony about why there are no macros in the new models (given Activities and Favorites no one uses them).
post #250 of 1827
Check this out,

Becky Worley did a spot for twit.tv where she talked to a Logitech guy for about 15 mins, and he was showing her the device. (Warning, it was just her so she had to operate the camera herself, and she's not used to cameras - so not all is in focus ;-) )

Towards the end he demonstrates how the Android app turns on the devices by pressing one button on the screen.

post #251 of 1827
Quote:
Originally Posted by dack70 View Post

I'm getting a little confused about the terminology here. Activites. Macros. Sequences. Here is what I would like to know. Using the large Revue keyboard or the small one, can I assign a number of sequences to a button? For example:

1. Turn on tv
2. Turn on Blu-Ray player
3. Turn on receiver
4. Set receiver to DVD input
Etc...

I already own a logitech harmony remote (xbox edition) and it recognizes all of my equipment. Also, my harmony can do way more than 5 sequences. Can the revue controllers do all of this?

So again, I'm not going to bother arguing with people who say the Harmony supports macros. I just configured a new one and if there is macro support per se, I don't see it -- it might as well not be there. To me, the Harmony's activity creation is a far cry from a general-purpose macro utility and I really don't care that it is -- it works for me.

That said, what you describe above is what Harmony calls an "Activity" and the distinction is that it involves "moving from one thing to another". These activities are limited in the sense that once you describe your setup, they require you to make decisions about TV input, receiver input, etc. (aside: Does anyone know how I can make it so that it doesn't reset my TV input every time? It's an annoying delay).

Your activity above is, of course, no problem on the Harmony. There is some debate here as to whether it's going to be doable on the Revue. I believe it will be because Logitech keeps stating over and over that the Revue contains the latest and greatest Harmony technology and Activities date back to the first Harmony remotes.

I suppose we'll find out in days, but I'd also ask on the Logitech forums, maybe the answer will come sooner.
post #252 of 1827
So, I just posted my question (with more details) on the Logitech forum. I'll copy what I posted below. Does anyone here know the answer to my question?

Logitech Forum Post:

I have the Logitech Harmony Xbox 360 Remote for all of my AV gear. I have very complex sequences programmed into my Activities (eg. Watch TV, Watch BD-DVD, etc.) For example, when I push the Watch TV Activity, I have the remote drill down through my cable box menus to setup the resolution properly. Will the Revue controllers (big and small keyboards) have all the same functionality as my Xbox 360 Harmony remote?
post #253 of 1827
^ if you look at the video above, he says the top of the line remote functionality is inside the revue. so yes..

When you first setup Google TV, it will ask you what devices you have.. then it will program it for you with codes from the cloud - and it will always be updated. No PC required to train the remote.
post #254 of 1827
Quote:
Originally Posted by lament View Post

^ if you look at the video above, he says the top of the line remote functionality is inside the revue. so yes..

When you first setup Google TV, it will ask you what devices you have.. then it will program it for you with codes from the cloud - and it will always be updated. No PC required to train the remote.

I remember hearing that too, and it makes sense seeing as their database of supported devices are in the cloud,... however,... it's the Activites that I'm concerned about. Right now, I setup my Activities by hooking up my remote to my computer, and I customize what I want to do. I even have a couple of IR commands I have to teach the remote (HDMI switch box). So, I'm wondering how that will work (if it does at all). Do I hook it up to my PC the same way, or do it through the revue. Can the revue keyboard "learn" IR commands, even though it is an RF remote?
post #255 of 1827
Quote:
Originally Posted by dack70 View Post

Can the revue keyboard "learn" IR commands, even though it is an RF remote?

Teaching IR commands to the Revue.
post #256 of 1827
Quote:
Originally Posted by lament View Post

Teaching IR commands to the Revue.

I'm an idiot! I actually saw that video before. Thanks for posting it. So I'm guessing I will probably be able to setup complex Activities the same way as the video shows, using the Revue/TV.
post #257 of 1827
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronton3 View Post

The CNET live blog said the presenter mentioned DLNA using Twonky from the Revue. I now use Twonky to stream from a G5 Mac to a BDP-83. Is there any possibility that the Revue could stream to the OPPO if both were connected to the same router by ethernet. ron

If I had to guess, I'd say no. Devices like the BDP-83, PS3, and I would assume the Revue are DNLA clients. The only way it will work is if the Revue has a DNLA server built into it, which I think we'd have heard about.
post #258 of 1827
I've been a happy Apple TV user for almost 2 years now, and I've toyed with Boxee a couple of times, so I think I can add something here. Neither Apple TV nor Boxee has me completely satisfied and I'm hoping Google TV, whether it be the Revue or a later product, will completely satisfy me.

One thing fact that seems to be getting lost on people is that the Boxee Box doesn't exist yet, and like the Revue, it likely won't be the only implementation of Boxee. (My own feeling is that they're too late and Google TV will blow it away, but I'm not convinced yet.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by doctor media View Post

"Boxee has no internet browser"
Who cares. Like families sit around and read digg together...

1) I agree, to an extent. At the same time, though, no one used to use their phone to do the same. As websites are optimized for viewing on TVs, it'll at least happen some.
2) Boxee does have a browser.

Quote:


Boxee has no remote control for other devices.
Thats why god made universal remotes....

Agreed, again. Compared to the Harmony remote that's included with the Revue, though, you're adding a significant expense. I personally think I'll continue using my Harmony 850.

Quote:


Boxee can't utilize any music that is protected by DRM
DRM music is the work of Satan. Since Boxee is right with Jesus, it doesn't support the devils playground....

Agreed again, and, further, Google TV isn't going to play your iTunes DRM mp3s. DRM is also disappearing.

Quote:


Boxee can't use Web Cams /Boxee can't view Security Cams
Because its an entertainment device, not a stalkers wet dream?
Boxee cant be used as Wireless N Ethernet Bridge
Because its an entertainment device, not a hackers wet dream?

Like you said before, who cares? Who does these things?

Quote:


Boxee is not an open source Project that will allow anyone to create programs or apps for it
BULLSH%T
"Boxee features a Python Scripts Engine and WindowXML application framework (a XML-based widget toolkit for creating a GUI for widgets) in a similar fashion to Apple Mac OS X Dashboard Widgets and Microsoft Gadgets in Windows Sidebar. Python widget scripts allow non-developers to themselves create new add-ons functionality to Boxee, (using the easier to learn Python programming language), without knowledge of the complex C/C++ programming language that the rest of the Boxee software is written in. Current plugin scripts add-ons include functions like Internet-TV and movie-trailer browsers, cinema guides, Internet-radio-station browsers (example SHOUTcast), and much more."

If the Android SDK is any indication, Boxee isn't going to have nearly the useful apps that Google TV will. Your own example, Windows Sidebar, has a pretty limited number of gadgets, and the overwhelming majority are not very well written. I think Google TV ends up winning big time here.

Quote:


Boxee has not reached out to other TV Service Providers to further deepen the content possibilities.
Like there is even a reasonable amount of viable options out there. Netflix is the only one I would pay for.

Uhhh, hello? Hulu? The problem here isn't that Boxee isn't reaching out, it's that they have absolutely no clout. Hulu forced Boxee to remove support (and they hacked it back in using the web browser for a miserable experience). Meanwhile, Google says they'll be supporting Hulu shortly. Technically, Hulu was able to do this over a year ago, but they don't have the business relationships (or, soon, the market share) to play ball.

Quote:


Boxxe will not do do side by side Internet and TV viewing on one screen.
Does anybody really care?

Expanding the original point, it's the fact that Google TV is unifying all of your sources in to a single box that has me excited. Boxee was already a big step from Apple TV in this regard, and a big part of the reason I was planning on buying a Boxee Box up until Google TV got me even more excited.

Apple TV lists your iTunes stuff in one place and your media library in another. Want to watch TV? Switch sources to your cable box. Want to stream Netflix? Switch to your Xbox.

Boxee lists all of your available content in a single place. Want to watch a TV show? Click on TV Shows. Now I can see that I can watch Arrested Development or The Simpsons. If I watch Arrested Development, it plays from the shared drive on my PC in the other room. If I want to watch The Simpsons, it streams from Fox. Apple TV seperates different types of sources, but why? What do I care where the content is coming from? I just want to watch it, and I don't want to search in more than one place.

Google TV takes it a step further by integrating with your STB. Now, if I want to watch the House, it'll show me all the episodes I have on my DVR. And tell me a new episode is on TV tonight.

Edit: As for my first point, that neither Apple TV nor Boxee have completely satisfied me:

Apple TV is limited to 720p and doesn't stream anything but iTunes (and netflix with New Apple TV). It also relies on my library in iTunes and a pathetic list of supported formats (unless I hack it with different software, along with its awful interface).

Boxee has been a huge pain because I'm using it on an HTPC, and it totally feels like I'm using a clunky computer instead of a purpose made device. And I haven't been able to get everything working correctly, so I gave up and decided I'd buy a Boxee Box, which I'm also rethinking now. I think I'd be happy with the Boxee Box, but Google TV seems so much better.
post #259 of 1827
Quote:
Originally Posted by qoncept View Post

Edit: As for my first point, that neither Apple TV nor Boxee have completely satisfied me:

Apple TV is limited to 720p and doesn't stream anything but iTunes (and netflix with New Apple TV). It also relies on my library in iTunes and a pathetic list of supported formats (unless I hack it with different software, along with its awful interface).

Boxee has been a huge pain because I'm using it on an HTPC, and it totally feels like I'm using a clunky computer instead of a purpose made device. And I haven't been able to get everything working correctly, so I gave up and decided I'd buy a Boxee Box, which I'm also rethinking now. I think I'd be happy with the Boxee Box, but Google TV seems so much better.

Give me a break on this 720p thing. The ATV out of the box streams stuff off YouTube. It doesn't support a zillion codecs for a very good reason. The whole thing is part of an environment that meshes together and is the foundation for building further connectivity.

Awful interface? What planet are you living on?

Boxee on the Boxee Box is not Boxee on an HTPC.

Google TV can't be had at this time, just as all those killer iPad units can't be bought. When you buy a Google TV thing then you might look back longingly at other options. Noone knows. My guess is it's just one big mess.

In any case, the Boxee Box is different than the giant squid. Google TV is going to be a flop at first. Perhaps Google will persist, but the pricing and the giant mess that it is just makes almost every other media player a breath of fresh air.

Philip
post #260 of 1827
How is ATV not supporting AVCHD build further connectivity? ATV's GUI does seem really nice though...except for searching for content. Scrolling around to enter letters is annoying, I have to deal with that for my Directv HDDVR and youtube app on my Panasonic BD60 occasionally.

IMO GoogleTV will be more likely than Boxee to get agreements from various networks, Hulu etc. to make content available on their device. I really like the full integration that the Revue has, not a mess to me.

on the minus side:
This USB drive 40GB fat32 local playback limit is killing me though.
post #261 of 1827
PMCD, your characterizations of Google TV/Revue are comical. "Giant Squid taking over" and "giant mess"? I'm not sure where you're getting those impressions. It appears that it has more features, capability, and expansion promise than the competition, and that makes it this huge, unwieldy creature taking over your home entertainment system?

The fact that it is connected in series with a cable box is a benefit to me, not a detriment. That is what will allow me to view internet content while watching tv.

You also state that ads are scary, in which case you might be best off if you avoid all forms of media (print, tv, internet video, web pages, this forum, etc.) since nearly all of them are paid for by advertising. That is simply the most successful model for producing most content.

I hope your longing for a simple box is satisfied by the other options, but I am interpreting your view as similar to someone saying they're rather have a typewriter and calculator instead of one of those messy computers. That analogy is a little too extreme, but it's the first thing that comes to mind.
post #262 of 1827
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcd View Post

Give me a break on this 720p thing.

Huh? Are you saying you don't care about 1080p? Do you really think your view is shared by everyone else in the world?

Quote:


The ATV out of the box streams stuff off YouTube. It doesn't support a zillion codecs for a very good reason. The whole thing is part of an environment that meshes together and is the foundation for building further connectivity.

Great. I don't care what Apple's reasoning is, I want to be able to watch my movies. As I said, I've been happy enough with the Apple TV so far, but Apple has a very specific vision of how they want their users to use their products. That vision doesn't include everything I want to do. Boxee and Google TV do.

Quote:


Awful interface? What planet are you living on?

The one where, as I said, Apple TV doesn't support different video formats without hacking it and using different software (NitoTV), whose UI isn't very good.

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Boxee on the Boxee Box is not Boxee on an HTPC.

And you read the part where I mentioned that was a caveat, and that I was fully ready to buy a Boxee Box because it wouldn't have those problems..?

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Google TV can't be had at this time

This isn't a discussion about when Google TV will be available.

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just as all those killer iPad units can't be bought.

I don't even know what you're talking about now.

Quote:


When you buy a Google TV thing then you might look back longingly at other options. Noone knows. My guess is it's just one big mess.

Well, we're all speculating. Out of the box, it does everything I want (which the question mark over which formats it supports, but I'll at least be getting what I am today). $300 isn't cheap, but it isn't exactly a fantasy purchase. If it turns out I don't like it, I'll sell it like I did the HTPC I had Boxee on. And even if the Revue flops, there will be half a dozen other options available before Christmas.

Quote:


In any case, the Boxee Box is different than the giant squid. Google TV is going to be a flop at first. Perhaps Google will persist, but the pricing and the giant mess that it is just makes almost every other media player a breath of fresh air.

I don't know what giant mess you're talking about, but there isn't another media player that does what Google TV does, and only Boxee is close. The Apple TV, as much as I like it, doesn't have any functionality that my friend's new TV doesn't have by itself. Google is innovating in the way Apple would if they were serious about Apple TV.
post #263 of 1827
Let's just agree that if Hulu is supported on Boxee, it'll be through a hack/cloaking device and that, therefore, Hulu+ won't be.

There isn't a shred of evidence that Hulu intends for non-PC devices to support "plain Hulu" at this point and I'm not clear why they'd make an exception for Boxee, which is a company they've already identified as an "agitator."

It's clear that GoogleTV is being blocked from Hulu and that Google has the technical werewithal to fix that on a permanent basis so long as there is a browser-based Hulu. It's also clear they are preferring a HuluPlus deal and a happy Hulu over pissing them off.

At least in the case of Boxee, one can imagine them preferring to just piss Hulu off and not care about ever having access to Hulu Plus.
post #264 of 1827
Quote:
Originally Posted by sushinut View Post

ATV's GUI does seem really nice though...except for searching for content. Scrolling around to enter letters is annoying, I have to deal with that for my Directv HDDVR and youtube app on my Panasonic BD60 occasionally.

.

Why not use the free Apple remote app?

philip
post #265 of 1827
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmcd View Post

Why not use the free Apple remote app?

Not everyone with an ATV should be expected to have an iPhone/iPad/iPod touch. Apple (and everyone else except the few companies with keyboards -- e.g. Logitech) should deal with that problem.
post #266 of 1827
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post


Not everyone with an ATV should be expected to have an iPhone/iPad/iPod touch. Apple (and everyone else except the few companies with keyboards -- e.g. Logitech) should deal with that problem.

That's true, although the ATV is far nicer when used in that environment.

Philip
post #267 of 1827
Quote:
Originally Posted by qoncept View Post

Huh? Are you saying you don't care about 1080p? Do you really think your view is shared by everyone else in the world?

I actually don't care, and I believe most people share that view. For one thing, 1080p content is rare. For people wanting to achieve and play back their blu-Ray collections, the ATV is not the way to go.

Quote:



Great. I don't care what Apple's reasoning is, I want to be able to watch my movies. As I said, I've been happy enough with the Apple TV so far, but Apple has a very specific vision of how they want their users to use their products. That vision doesn't include everything I want to do. Boxee and Google TV do.

You will have to wait to see as those products can't be bought yet. The Boxee Box seems very appealing.

Quote:



The one where, as I said, Apple TV doesn't support different video formats without hacking it and using different software (NitoTV), whose UI isn't very good.

Are you talking about Apple TV 1G? You can use VideoDrive, iFlicks, etc... to use that ATV in the same way that you would run any mp4 file. It's identical to the native interface. The only reason you might want nitoTV would be to run DVD collections without ripping them to mp4 or xvid. Of course nitoTV can be used for much more.

The support of massive numbers of codecs and containers would slow down the evolution of ATV and the integration with iDevices, and to me that is a main part of where it is going.

Quote:



And you read the part where I mentioned that was a caveat, and that I was fully ready to buy a Boxee Box because it wouldn't have those problems..?

This isn't a discussion about when Google TV will be available.

I don't even know what you're talking about now.

Well, we're all speculating. Out of the box, it does everything I want (which the question mark over which formats it supports, but I'll at least be getting what I am today). $300 isn't cheap, but it isn't exactly a fantasy purchase. If it turns out I don't like it, I'll sell it like I did the HTPC I had Boxee on. And even if the Revue flops, there will be half a dozen other options available before Christmas.

You keep saying how the GTV will do it all. It seems to me that availability is an issue. So far it's all just marketing futures.

Quote:



I don't know what giant mess you're talking about, but there isn't another media player that does what Google TV does, and only Boxee is close. The Apple TV, as much as I like it, doesn't have any functionality that my friend's new TV doesn't have by itself. Google is innovating in the way Apple would if they were serious about Apple TV.

I don't see the point of a web browser interface which combines both my sat/cable subscriptions and the web. It just sounds very complicated.

The real strength of the ATV is in AirPlay. That isn't out yet. Your friend's TV will be ancient technology compared to that.

It may turn out that Google TV ends up being interesting. As I have said, I view Google as an ad supported company and I despise ads. I try to avoid them whenever possible.

It sounds to me that you needed a more traditional media player. The BBox may be it or Dune or NetGear 550. Whenever I hear 1080p, large local collection, etc ... The ATV is not what comes to mind.

Philip
post #268 of 1827
Phillip, one question... answer honestly: going forward, will 1080i/p content become more, or will it become less, prevalent?

Don't worry though, next year Apple will be glad to sell you an ATV3 that handles 1080p and last year's codecs...
post #269 of 1827
pmcd

Stay with your apple. I will surf the entire web, I will have only ONE input that will intergrate it and layover my web browsing while I still watch and hear live broadcast, or have PIP. And all that is from the get-go. Keep you Atv.
post #270 of 1827
Quote:
Originally Posted by palehorse View Post

Phillip, one question... answer honestly: going forward, will 1080i/p content become more, or will it become less, prevalent?

Don't worry though, next year Apple will be glad to sell you an ATV3 that handles 1080p and last year's codecs...

Once the Internet had a better infrastructure, wireless is better, power issues are better, etc ... The 1080p will become more prevalent. If you believe Blu-Ray physical disks will really take off and if the legality of backing them up is clarified and if networks start broadcasting in higher than 720p and if the recording of premium content is made simpler and if ... Then sure 1080p will become more available. The current ATV is designed to work with a variety of other devices that simply work better with a more limited support structure.

There are always compromises. You want more power then you give up on battery life. You want quiet devices with no fans and an internal power supply the something has to give.

The last Apple TV came out 3 years ago. If Apple comes out with a new ATV 3 that is a significant improvement in a year then great. I have no issues with that. I doubt that you will see more codec support though of course standards come and go.

I don't know what the issue is. You want a media player that is largely an mkv player, you have a large blu-ray collection that you want to archive and play back with a media player, etc ... Then the ATV is not for you as a main media player. We all know that. I would add that the ATV works best as an accessary to an iDevice.

I am not saying anything radical. The market for the ATV is not the same as for one of the excellent Dune players or a pch. Everyone should try to figure out what they might like to use these players for. I realize it is all pretty new so of course mistakes will be made. A $99 mistake is a lot easier to swallow than a $200 one.

Philip
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