The 3D via a HDMI 1.3 AV-Receiver Thread - Page 3

What are you using to bitstream the lossless codecs from your HTPC (Xonar, ATI GPU, or Intel i series CPU)? If it's Xonar I know a solution to get it to work. What is your 3D display and what content and playback software are you using?

That splitter that you got, was likely designed so that you could hook up two seperate DVD players to one HDMI input. It's not sending out the same signal at the same time via both HDMI outputs. It's sending one or the other. Also, again, I don't think this will work unless the PS3 gets an EDID of a known 2010 model 3D TV.

According to the description, it is indeed designed to take a single signal, and send it to two displays. Power the first one on, make sure it connects, and power the second, is what the instructions say. I only tried it briefly, and it may work once the handshaking begins. I also got a cheap 4x2 switch, that works. I am going from an 8-port HDMI switch, to a 4x2, so everything will either come out the TV or the PJ, when switched.

Right now, I am not bitstreaming the 3D, because the AVR doesn't pass the 3D signal. The $50 switch from 4 years ago has no problem doing it.

I picked up a Xonar slim the other day, and haven't tried it yet. I would be interested in hearing how that works. I believe the card needs a video signal to output audio. Some have apparently used the 2nd DVI output, or a 3rd device not actually in use. IF this works, then I can avoid replacing the AVR.

I'm using a Viewsonic PDJ6531w for 3D output, and it looks excellent (albeit slightly stretched due to 16:10)

If you just have a simple Y spliter and not a powered splitter/repeater model it will not output to two HDMI displays concurently. This is because DVI and HDMI are handshaking protocols. To work one of the two displays a Y splitter is connected to needs to be turned off.

I understand that, and thought the same thing. This device has an active circuit, and is not simply a Y-cable. If you do a search for PCM-2275, you'll see it has a fairly large box on it. It's not surprising this is possible, as long as there are electronics to handle the handshaking.

I did not see your second post before I sent my above post. I now see from a picture of it that it has USB connector for power.

Such a 3D-aware Y splitter should work for the frame compatible 3D modes. These things replicate the EDID from one "master" output to the input, and send the same video timing to all outputs. Connecting the "master" output to the TV, you would have the 3D capabilities, but you would lose the audio formats of you AVR. The 3D auto-switching should work, since the splitter passes through the VSIs, and the AVR simply does not care about them. You would have to "force" your HD-Audio formats, though, if your player lets you do that.

It looks different when you use the frame packing formats of the PS3 or a Blu-ray player. The AVR does not know those timings and will not be able to get audio from those signals. The splitter can not send frame packing to the TV, and just the left view as normal 1080p to the AVR, that would require a scaler.

Try this:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...0&postcount=21

What is your method for 3D glasses? 3D Vision?

I just use an hdmi out from the MB or second dvi out of my graphics card to separate audio through the Xonar. One to AVR other to display.

So this method worked for you using Blu-ray 3D frame-packed output?

My findings issues and questions on this:

I have an Onkyo 705 AVR, HTPC is the source with an ATI 5770 graphics card as the output.

The Display device is an Optoma hd66 projector.

*I know the hd66 is not hdmi 1.4 but my issues are similar*

The issue:

120hz frame sequential output from the HTPC will not handshake with the Onkyo, 60hz is great, 120hz ..... no signal.

If I rewire things and have hdmi straight to the optoma, 120hz passes and works correctly, but there is no audio in this setup.

My work in progress testing:

My ATI 5770 card has 3 outputs, 1 DVI, 1 HDMI, 1 Display port.


Using a DVI to HDMI adapter I am able to send 120hz to the projector directly.

Then using the hdmi port I am able to send audio at 60hz to my onkyo.

As far as the HTPC is concerned, the onkyo shows up as a second monitor which I simply set to "extended desktop". Those still following any of this may wonder how you can get a dual monitor output to send different refresh rates to multiple displays. Enter ATI's Hydravision software (part of the catalyst driver) it allows separate refresh rate adjustments.


This solution almost works ! the BUT:

The receiver will not bitstream audio, the 5770 was able to bitstream HD audio just fine before all this 3D stuff. I am not sure if this is a handshake issue but when the PC switches output to bitstream audio my onkyo goes to "no signal" like it could not handshake, thus I get no sound. If I keep the sound decoded by the HTPC it works fine.

Not sure what I am missing yet, need to keep testing.

My point is that if anyone has a HTPC they are using for 3d, and for whatever reason their AVR wont pass the signal, try using the multiple outputs on the graphics card (all the ATI 5000 series cards should output audio and video over hdmi).... and if you get it working better than I have it working now ... please let me know ! lol

I have the Yamaha rx-v565 (HTR-6250BL) and I just purchased the Mits 3d adapter kit to go with my 73735. The PS3 3d games now available play fine going through the receiver. My Directv HR23, however, does not. When I try to run the HR23 through the Yamaha I get a message from the HR23 that my tv is not 3d compatible.

Report test Samsung c-6900 3D player->onkyo 905(HDMI 1.3 AVM)-> PS C-7000
Hdmi cable ...1 is 1.4 another 2 is 1.3b
Check 3D player to TV.....====3D working Fine...
Using AVR hdmi pass trough ======3D do no work....
Using HDMI splitter. 1 in and 2 out ( with powersupply)=====3d work ,,,,But AVR cannot detect any HD sound(AVR display no HD sound contack)
Just go back to the computer Cable shop...Refund the HDMI splitter money>>>
If possible...PLease let me know....Which brand HDMI splitter can working fine.( 3D & HD sound).
Thanks

You need a splitter that send the 3D video signal (1.4 standard) to the TV and the audio signal, embedded inside any video signal, as long as in 1.3 standard, to the AVR.

I don't know wether such a splitter already exists. Others more informed than me could tell.

If you use PS3 as a source (that will soon support 3D via a firmware upgrade) why it is not possible to pass the signal through an HDMI 1.3 receiver (setting of video signal output signal to "through") and then to your 3D tv?
What is the difference of the above to connecting your PS3 directly to your 3D tv?

The difference is that both PS3 and the 3D TV (will) support the "3D over HDMI" protocol, while a HDMI 1.3 receiver doesn't.

The video format is different in this protocol, at least for 3D Blu-Ray and thus the receiver can't extract the audio from the video.

The only 3D HDMI1.4a 3D protocol that a HDMI 1.3 3d capable receiver can not extract the audio from is the double packed frame format from a new 3D blu-ray player when playing a 3D BR disk. An HDMI 1.3 receiver will support all of the other HDMI 1.4a protocols without any problem

Walfrod could you please rephrase your statement because I am not sure that I have understood you.....



I would like to give more details to what I have meant.
Drive only the audio from the PS3 to the receiver through optical (no HD sound, fine only DTS/DD) and only the 3D video to your 3D tv through your 1.3 receiver via HDMI with the setting as "through". Why this will not work?

Both the cable and satellite companies receivers have no problem passing HDMI 1.4a 3D SbS or Tnb formatted using the HDMI 1.3 transmitter chips in their rceivers through A/V receivers that support pass through mode and the A/V receivers can strip out the audio since SbS and TnB format use standard 1080i or 720p resoluiton frames.
However a 3D blu-ray player can pass through the double packed frame HDMI 1.41 3D format which is a 1920x2205 resolution and only a HDMI 1.4 A/V receiver can remove the audio from these frames.
This is a little more explanation then what Mike discussed

hi guys,well yesterday 8-9-10 i buy the onkyo TX-NR5008, i already have the 805,really great receiver but dont work with 3d,well at least for my set up dont work,anyway i buy this TX-NR5008 only for the 3d support and for my surprisse when i hook my ps3 and start,3d dont work!!, i already try this 2 settings
1- ps3 to 3d adapter,adapter to receiver,receiver to tv
2-ps3 to receiver,receiver to 3d adapter,adapter to tv
any of then work!!

my setup:
MITSUBISHI WD82837
3DC-1000 3D ADAPTER
ONKYO TX-NR5008
PS3
ONKYO BP-807 THX BLU RAY PLAYER

any help guys?? really thanks!!

Welcome to the club. I have the same TV and adaptor and a new 1.4 Integra AVR bought for 3D. Eventually the PS3 and Xbox360 worked with the AVR and adaptor. However my cable FIOS DVR would not. The only solution was to bypass the AVR by a HDMI switch and use optical cable for sound.

Reading all the posts in the Adaptor section I stayed away from Onkyo AVRs. Your #2 hookup is correct. I still cannot believe that all the new 1.4 devices cannot do proper handshakes.

But if you drive the audio seperately through optical there is no need for the receiver to extract the audio.
Is that so?

I'm cross posting this all over:
I can watch 3D PS3 games connecting PS3 direct to 3DC-1000 to Mitsy TV.
I can watch 3D Comcast programs connecting HDTIVO direct to 3DC-1000 to Mitsy TV.
I can watch 3D Comcast programs connecting HDTIVO to Denon AVR 3808 (1.3HDMI) then to 3DC-1000 then to Mitsy TV.
I can NOT watch PS3 games connecting PS3 to Denon AVR 3808 (1.3HDMI) then 3DC-1000 to Mitsy TV.
Having both Comcast and PS3 through the Denon allows Comcast 3D to work but not PS3 games. Anyone have a suggestion on what does work for you with this set up?

I think . . . not 100% sure . . . that this is what you need:

http://www.accellcables.com/products.../4x1Switch.htm

They run about $55 on the internet (Amazon)

You would put this box before your 3DC1000 which would get the output of the above. Then you attach the PS3 HDMI ouput and the Denon AVR 3808 HDMI output to the Inputs on this box. The problem is no DTS MA/Dolby TrueHD from BD from the PS3. For that you would need a product that has not been released; a box that is like a splitter except one output is for HD audio only (no video) while the other is for 1.4 3D video from BD (movies and games)

The reason why I say I am not sure is this from the link:

The HDMI switch is compliant to the latest HDMI 1.3 specification up to 7.5 Gbps (250MHz).

I can't remember the specs for 3D BD games and movies. Hopefully someone will chime in and either agree with me or correct me.

You can always try to locate one (they show where it is sold) and if it doesn't pass the 3D BD content through then you can return it.

Due to the number of devices I have I already have a 1.3 switcher though my HDTIVO nor PS3 is connected to it and I could connect both to it but the output would still go through the AVR so I don't see the PS3 working that method either. I understand what you're saying regarding a splitter (you can pre-order 1.4HDMI splitters for @$500 so that means I'd just buy a new 3D AVR) so perhaps I'll wait to see what happens when Sony updates the PS3 to 3D since I plan on watching 3D movies versus 3D games.

Nothing is going to change when Sony releases their 3D BD update for the PS3. It too is using frame packing like the 3D game update. Your Denon will not pass the signal.

This is a single 1080x24P frame packed 3D BD frame:



The 3D frame from a 3D BD PS3 game would look the same but intead of twin 1920x1080 @ 24 FPS frames within the frame they would be twin 1280x720 frames within the frame @ 60 FPS

The reason why it passes 3D content from CBL or SAT is because they use frame compatible 3D formats - each 3D frame looks like an HD frame

This is a 1920x1080i Side-by-Side frame:




This is a 1280x720P Top/Bottom frame

I appreciate the information however I'm still not understanding why when either the PS3 or HDTivo is plugged directly into the 3D adapter it works perfect and the HDTIvo works fine (the 3D program is native 720p top-bottom picture but is 'converted' to 1080 in the adapter) through the AVR but not the PS3 since the AVR is simply passing the signal through. I wonder if a 1.4 cable out from the AVR to the 3D adapter would have any effect.

There is no longer such a thing as a HDMI 1.4 cable see the folloowing link:

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/tra..._logo_pub.aspx

A/V receivers that state they are 3D capable will pass through any of the HDMI 1.4a mandatory video formats shown in Lee's post above which included 1980x2205 packed frame format, the 1080i SbS format and the 720p TnB formats.
However, if the A/V receiver does not provide EDID datat stating that it wll accept these formats then the source program will not send the content in one of these formats.
The following link states what formats the Mits 3D adapter will accept and convert and what formats such as checkerboard from a PS3 that it pass through.

http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/pdf/3DA...heet060810.pdf

The 3D-1000 is designed to work with all 3D formats; frame packed and frame compatible. It converts both to the needed checkerboard 3D format that DLP RPTVs require. It's really just a 3D format converter.

The reason why the PS3 won't work when connected to your Denon is because the HDMI 1.3 RX Input chip doesn't recognize the signal that the PS3 is sending from it's now modified HDMI 1.3/1.4 TX output chip. Think of the HDMI RX and TX chips as language chips. They each have a list of languages that is embedded within them.

For example, before the 3D BD game upgrade was released, the PS3 spoke German. Your Denon can speak German, French, Spanish and English and can cross translate any of the programmed languages that reside in the HDMI RX (Input) chip. Now all of a sudden, Sony added the 3D BD game upgrade, your PS3 now speaks not only German but also Mandarin when it is in 3D BD game mode. Your Denon doesn't speak Mandarin so it doesn't understand what the PS3 in 3D BD mode is saying. It can't pass the signal from the HDMI RX chip into the receiver. There has to be an open communciation between the RX and the TX HDMI chips which isn't happening.

It does happen with the 3DC-1000 because it's HDMI RX chip does speak Mandarin.

So why does the 3D content from your TIVO make it through your Denon? Because all that 3D content is frame compatible. Your Denon thinks it's listening to Spanish which is the language of HD. The fact that there are two frames (reduced resolution so not to exceed the limits of the HD frame, either 1920x1080 or 1280x720) inside a single frame, the Denon doesn't know or care. The TIVO is speaking Spanish, it understands Spanish and completes the communication line and then sends the signal through the receiver to the HDMI TX chip which also speaks Spanish which then communicates with the 3DC-1000 HDMI RX chip which speaks Spanish and Mandarin and you get 3D images on your TV.

Next month, when Sony releases the 3D BD Movie upgrade, they now add another language to the PS3 . . . Italian. Well your Denon doesn't speak Italian. it's not on the list of languages it inderstands. But your 3DC-1000 does speak Italian.

Does that help to clarify what is going on?