*Official* Denon AVR-1911/791 & AVR-2311CI/891 Owner's Thread

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS



Q. What is the difference between the three-digit models (e.g. AVR 791) and the four-digit models (e.g. AVR 1911)?

A: In general, NOTHING. Denon puts out two parallel receiver lineups, with four-digit and three-digit model numbers. The four-digit models are generally sold by high end stereo shops and custom installers, and the three-digit models are the "consumer" version sold in retail outlets like Best Buy and Fry's.

However, there is ZERO difference in terms of power, specs, sound quality, build quality, etc. between the two lines. Denon has been doing this for years, it is exactly analogous to the Yamaha HTR and RX-V parallel receiver lines.

There will usually be one or two minor differences to differentiate the three-digit and four-digit models. There is typically a slight cosmetic difference between the two lines, and different remotes.

For more info, please see the Denon Model Numbers page at batpigworld:
http://batpigworld.com/models.html



Q. OK, what are the specific differences?

A: see the listing below for specific differences between the "twin" models --


The AVR 791 and AVR 1911 are "twin" models. The only differences between the two (beyond cosmetics) are:

(1) The AVR 1911 adds HD radio

(2) The AVR 1911 has Zone 2 pre-outs (so you are not required to use the "amp assign" to power Zone 2). This means that, with the additional of an external 2-channel amp, the 1911 can run 7.1 + Zone 2 (whereas the 791 can only do 5.1 + Zone 2).

(3) The AVR 1911 has a "Room-to-room" remote control jack so you can hard-wire an infrared remote extender for your 2nd zone

IN ALL OTHER RESPECTS, THE AVR 791 AND 1911 ARE IDENTICAL!


The AVR 891 and AVR 2311 are "twin" models. The 2311, being the "CI" model, adds a few features; the differences between the two (beyond cosmetics) are:

(1) The AVR 2311 adds HD radio

(2) The AVR 2311 has Zone 2 pre-outs (so you are not required to use the "amp assign" to power Zone 2). This means that, with the additional of an external 2-channel amp, the 2311 can run 7.1 + Zone 2 (whereas the 891 can only do 5.1 + Zone 2).

(3) The AVR 2311 has expanded Zone 2 setup options, including bass/treble controls and optional HPF (high-pass filter) for Zone 2 speakers, the ability to switch Zone 2 between stereo and mono, and variable volume output for the Zone 2 pre-outs

(4) The AVR 2311 has a "Room-to-room" remote control jack so you can hard-wire an infrared remote extender for your 2nd zone

(5) The AVR 2311 has the "CI" features: RS-232 control port, 12V trigger output

IN ALL OTHER RESPECTS, THE AVR 891 AND 2311 ARE IDENTICAL!


Q. Does the AVR 791 have more power than the 1911? And 891 vs 2311??

A: NO!!! This is pure marketing gimmickry!!

The AVR 791 and 1911 have IDENTICAL amplifier sections!!!

The AVR 891 and 2311 have IDENTICAL amplifier sections!!!

Denon decided to quote the "6-ohm" wattage spec instead of the "8-ohm" spec purely to make the 3-digit models look more impressive on the shelves of Best Buy, Fry's, etc. If you look at the actual manuals / product sheets, you will see that the amplifier specs are actually identical among these models!



Q. Should I get one of these new models, or buy a cheaper xx10 model on closeout??

A: This is what's NEW on the xx11 models:

- HDMI 1.4, which supports 3D video, ARC (audio return channel) and ethernet over HDMI
- a front-panel USB port that is compatible with iPod/iPhone direct play and control (also music off USB drives)
- a new, improved remote (all the buttons are on one side!)
- HD radio (4-digit models only!)

This is what you LOSE on the xx11 models:

- No more EXT IN multichannel analog inputs
- Fewer "legacy" inputs (e.g. component video, s-video, etc)
- No more "B" speaker posts (although you can reassign the surr.back amps to "Front B" if you want to use a dedicated pair of 2-ch music speakers)
- No more switched outlets

That is basically it -- if you don't care about 3D or the USB port for your iPod/iPhone, you can get the xx10 model without missing out on much.

Assume that sound quality is IDENTICAL! The xx10 and xx11 models have the same Audyssey MultEQ room processing, same audio codecs, etc.



Q. Should I go with the 791/1911 model or is it worth it to pay more for the 891/2311CI model?

A: That depends! Again, assume that sound quality is IDENTICAL! Do NOT buy the next model up with the expectation that you will get better sound quality. All "consumer" models, from the lowly AVR 391 to the AVR 2311CI, have the same basic amp section, DSP chips, and Audyssey processing. ONLY buy the next model up if you actually want the extra features!

The AVR 791 and 1911 are twin models -- see above for the specific differences. They provide:

- Four HDMI 1.4 inputs and one output
- Analog video inputs = one component video input and two composite video inputs
- Digital audio inputs = one coaxial and one optical digital audio input
- Analog audio inputs = four analog RCA audio inputs (the "CD" input is audio-only!)
- Front-panel USB input with iPod/iPhone direct play and control (can also play MP3/WMA/AAC off a USB drive)
- Audyssey MultEQ room correction with Dynamic EQ + Dynamic Volume
- Video conversion of any input (analog or digital) up to 1080p with ABT-1030 video processor chip
- Basic black/white OSD which CANNOT OVERLAY on top of video; when you call up the OSD, the video will blank out and the OSD will appear


The AVR 891 and 2311CI are twin models -- see above for the specific differences. They provide the following additional features beyond the 791/1911:

- 6 HDMI inputs (instead of 4)
- Greater selection of "legacy" inputs: two component video inputs, two each coaxial and optical digital audio inputs, two S-video inputs, three composite video inputs, and six RCA analog audio inputs.
- Better DAC's and ADC (again, making it a better choice if analog / legacy support is important)
- A component video monitor output (with GUI support)
- Dual subwoofer outputs (note that these are IDENTICAL mirrored outputs, they do not get separate distance/level/EQ settings)
- Upgraded video processing, including:
... (1) superior ABT-2015 video scaling chip (better HD processing and deinterlacing performance)
... (2) color GUI menus instead of basic black/white text OSD
... (3) the ability to OVERLAY volume, status, and GUI graphics on top of the video signal
... (4) picture adjustments (color, brightnes, contrast, etc) can be set separately for each input
... (5) the ability to convert analog video to component video output (and can still use GUI via component out)
- The AVR 2311CI also adds an RS-232 port (so you can do firmware updates at home without sending it into a repair center) and enhanced Zone 2 flexibility (stereo/mono switch, variable or fixed volume on RCA pre-outs, bass/treble control, and HPF control).



Q. Should I go with the 891/2311 model or is it worth it to pay a bit more to step up to the 991 model?

A: That still depends! The new AVR 991 (a slightly stripped-down version of the 3311CI) adds several features compared to the 2311/891 level for only $100-200 more msrp.

This is what you get stepping up to the AVR 991:

- slightly more power
- MultEQ XT (instead of regular MultEQ)
- Audyssey DSX
- Networking (including DLNA support, and Pandora, Rhapsody, Flickr streaming)
- It is a bit more of an "audiophile" unit too for critical 2ch music buffs, with a PHONO input, AL24+ processing on the front channels, and slightly better analog components.

If you are willing to spend all the way up to the 3311CI, you add:

- 3 zone support
- a second smaller remote for Zone 2/3 (IR only)
- dual 12V trigger outputs
- pre-outs for all channels
- 3 year "CI" warranty

there are many differences, some small, some large:

ADDITIONS:
- HDMI 1.4 inputs (with 3D support and ARC)
- 6 HDMI inputs instead of 5
- dual subwoofer outputs (although they are "mirrored" identical signals)
- USB port on front with ipod direct play (via built-in GUI), can also play MP3's off a USB drive
- new remote (finally abandoning the idiotic 2-sided remote with the secret panel on the back)
- HD radio
- slightly enhanced Zone 2 functionality (bass/treble control, can select mono vs stereo)

SUBTRACTIONS:
- no more EXT IN multichannel analog inputs
- no more PHONO input
- loss of "B" speaker posts (now must use "Amp Assign" terminals if you want "B" speakers)
- no more switched outlets


There are also some minor functional differences here and there in terms of operation.....

AVR 791 aka 1911 is in Stock

Via Amazon for $430.10

http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-791-...4915062&sr=1-6

batpig... thanks for the quick rundown of the differences 'tween 2310 and 2311.
personally i'm fine to see the 12V outlets being dropped, the extension cord to the car in the garage was too long anyway....


will you elaborate? you who have the intimate knowledge of these things denon can spot the differences so much easier.

and while we're at it:
can you explain ARC Audio Return Channel feature of HDMI 1.4a ? i've read the explanation on HDMI page and on wikipedia, but i'm not getting the significance.

and, about the remote. the appearance seems to be more conventional and perhaps more straight forward and less exotic. which will translate to easier operation in actual use. is that your take?

finally, how dramatic can things get? first simon cowell leaves american idol and then someone other than batpig starts an official denon thread. what will become of us?

thanks
bc

oops I was thinking about 12V triggers



the significance is that you don't have to run a separate digital audio cable back to the AVR to hear audio from any content that is tuned in the TV itself.

for example, if you run the coaxial cable straight into the TV and use the TV's internal tuner (as opposed to an external cable box), or if you rent a Netflix movie straight from the TV, or you access other web content, video off a USB drive, whatever it is.... the audio can pipe back to the receiver via the HDMI cable. In other words, that HDMI cable from the AVR to the TV is a 2-way street, allowing audio FROM the TV to flow back to the receiver.

Without that ARC, you have to run a digital audio cable from the TV and use up another input on the receiver...

is it a big deal? I don't think so just a minor convenience thing, but becoming more useful as TV's have more and more content accessible via web / network interfaces.


yes, pretty much. the two-sided remote was a horrid design and difficult for most people to use...

I will elaborate a little more on the "minor functional differences" when I comb through the manuals a bit more... but it's subtle things, like for example the DYN EQ/VOL button on the new remote now cycles between the Day/Evening/Midnight settings for Dynamic Volume, whereas on the older units you could only change this setting by entering the OSD/GUI.

In summary, the single HDMI cable that folks currently have going from the AVR to the TV is all you would need for audio to return from the TV back to the AVR, however, both the AVR and the TV must be HDMI 1.4 compliant for the ARC feature to work correctly.

I noticed on the Denon website that the wattage ratings are specified at different ohms, one at 6 ohms and the other at 8. Does anyone know why? Is that normal?

They both have the same wattage, it's just that the 4 digit model is posted at 8 ohm and .08 THD and the 3 digit models are posted at 6 ohm and .70 THD which results in higher wattage. As the 3 digit models are generally considered the "consumer" versions, by using the 6 ohm spec it appears to the average consumer that it has a higher total wattage. This is why if this thread is to be the "official" thread it would be better if you posted the differences between the 3 and 4 digit models as well as differences from their predecessors from last year in your 1st post. See bp's threads from last year's models for a good layout of questions and answers.


In the Denon Owner manuals, both the 8 ohm and 6 ohm specs are posted and in the past Denon has used the 8 ohm number for total wattage on both the 4 digit and 3 digit models for marketing purposes. Using the 6 ohm number is simply a marketing ploy to selling more "consumer" branded 3 digit models (which Best Buy now also posts on their website). AFAIK, there has been no change in actual wattage from last year's models to the 2011 models (ie 1610/590/1611/591 = 75W; 1910/790/1911/791 = 90W; 2310/890/2311/891 = 105W; 3310/990/3311/991 = 120W).

I don't mean to dwell on this, but does anyone know why they would measure the wattage differently, thus making the three digit model appear to have more power than the four digit model at first glance? I would think it would be the other way around...

Also, is there a simple conversion to find out what an amplifier's output will be when impedance changes? Something to the effect of, "If an amp puts out 90 watts at 8 ohms, it's output at 6 ohms would be 'x' watts," or is the conversion more complicated than I'm making it seem?

the second I saw that they were using that 6ohm spec for the 3-digit models I had a vision of how many times we are now going to have to answer the exact same question from people wondering why one has more power than the other


MARKETING GIMMICK. period.


the key is distribution channels -- the 3-digit models are the ones sold in big box stores alongside Yamaha, which started this "game" earlier, now Denon wants to play catch-up. Basically, the 3-digit model is more likely to be seen by "ignorant" buyers who are going to be fooled by the B.S. spec, and are wondering why the $299 Yamaha has 110 watts/channel whereas the $599 Denon only has 90 w/ch and the $699 Harman Kardon has 50!


Yes, there are many electrical formulas, no need to get into that here.

I want to dampen any potential hysteria right now:

THE AMP SECTIONS ARE IDENTICAL. THE WATTAGE DIFFERENCE IS PURE MARKETING TRICKERY.

Sure ... to sell more 3 digit consumer branded models. See my edited post above.

you don't have to do the "watching over" we will take care of that.

you just have to be willing to update the first post occasionally. I will put the FAQ in post #3.

So the sooner the 1st and 2nd posts are updated with the correct information the less often we have to answer it.

FWIW

i think the previous socalled official denon threads have been great.
ontheotherhand, new blood, different approach is welcome.

let's see what it brings. more involvement sounds good to me.

bc

aha, thanks. that's real important, isn't it...
thanks for the direct explanation (and thanks to batpig, too).

bc

Yup .. there's already been one poster who picked up a new HDMI 1.4 AVR wondering why the ARC feature wouldn't work with his HDMI 1.3 TV.

ftw

we don't judge we are just here to help!

Hi everyone. Just wondering what type of speaker cable I should use when I get the denon avd 1911. I was thinking of getting the chord carnival silverscreen. I will be connecting it to a q acoustics 2000 5.1 speaker pack.

Also what kind of termination will I need to connect to the denon avr? Is it bananna plugs?

I'm sure you could get something from Monoprice for much less money.

Looking at the 791 with the USB port. Would I be able to plug in an external hard drive and play mp3's through the reciever? I'm way behind on all this stuff.
My old DRA 375 is being sent to the garage.
I have zero experience with newer a/v recievers.

Sorry if this is a dumb question.

there is no "special" speaker wire you need, just get the cheap stuff from monoprice.

banana plugs are strongly recommended for connecting to the back of the unit. The speaker terminals will take bare wire but it is so much easier with banana plugs; you can get those from monoprice also: http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

in the manual it claims that it can play music files from a connected USB drive. See pg 27 of the 1911 manual -- it will support MP3, WMA, and AAC from USB drives formatted with FAT16 or FAT32 file structures.