*Official* Denon AVR-1911/791 & AVR-2311CI/891 Owner's Thread - Page 9

After digging into Denon and Onkyo's manuals...

The ARC is not an independent input. It will "piggyback" on some other input, when enabled. With Denon it will always piggyback on TV input, so it has to be selected for ARC to work.

With Onkyo you can explicitly prioritize which of the possible sources (ARC, HDMI, optical/coax, analog) takes precedence if more than one if available for a given input. That's why they allow to still reassign HDMI when HDMI-CEC is enabled - but they suggest you don't do that (i.e., if you do it and don't understand what you're doing, it's your own problem).

In any case, you still need HDMI-CEC to tell AVR that it needs to start this piggybacking of ARC over some other input. Now it's clear why AVR has to switch to "TV input" when TV is tuned to the tuner - you need both - HDMI-CEC and AVR on the correct input, for the ARC to activate.

Samsung TVs can also activate ARC using Anynet+ menu (which is HDMI-CEC too).

Can some owner of Denon tell what OSD languages are available in the menu? I can't find that in the manual.

Newbie question here, this will be my first receiver. Trying to decide if I want to save the money by buying the 1910 over the 1911/791. Not interested in the 3d tvs, so 1.4 is no big deal to me. I would like to hook up my ipod to play over the stereo easily, though.

Without the USB, I know the receiver can't control the ipod, but I could just get a ipod->left/right audio splitter, and then plug that into the receiver to play, right? So if I selected a playlist/album on the ipod, I'd be all set?

Thanks!

The one question I have about this is "why not do it the way the manufacturers suggest, except for using a Harmony remote to automate the television input selection?" Is there a benefit to going through the receiver first?

I can picture a benefit if one wants to use the receiver's upscaling, for example, but is there a reason to do so if the sources are 1080p already?

the general benefits (whether or not these have value to you personally) are:

1) the input switching only has to be done in one place (less confusing to manage)
2) fewer cables (especially important if wall mounting a display) and simplicity of hook-up
3) for HD audio sources (Blu-ray, HD DVD, etc), HDMI is the only way to deliver the hi-rez audio to the AVR
4) you can utilize on-screen AVR menus/OSD without switching inputs on the TV

Now, you are 100% correct that if you have a good universal remote, and know how to program it, and don't mind a couple of extra cables going to the TV... then there isn't that much benefit outside of #3 and #4.

Many people, for example, choose to leave their cable box connected straight to the TV via HDMI (while running a digital audio cable to the AVR), which basically eliminates the possibility of weird handshake issues, frees up an HDMI input on the receiver, and allows you to watch TV while listening to another source audio without hassle. But people have been marketed into the whole "one cable to the TV thing" and feel somehow let down when that isn't the panacea it is purported to be....

Yes, you can just use a standard 3.5mm> RCA y-split type cable to go from the headphone jack to the front aux inputs on any receiver. The advantages you get from the all-digital USB connection are:

1) you avoid the crappy DAC of the ipod headphone jack
2) you don't have to worry about the ipod volume interacting with the AVR volume
3) you can control the ipod directly through the receiver's on screen displays

Now, if you aren't a "critical" audiophile then #1 and #2 aren't a big deal... so if you don't care about having to physically change the track/playlist on the ipod itself, then the 1910 will work fine.

http://batpigworld.com/fadq.html#general

If I understand correctly this means if you want your blu-ray source to not be altered by 2010 models with GUI you have to turn Video Conversion OFF and thus loose overlay, correct?

technically, yes -- you can't have your cake and eat it too. if the receiver is overlaying graphics on top of the image, it has to be doing SOMETHING to the video signal, right?

so, if you want to be an ultra-purist and ensure that the AVR is doing NOTHING to the signal, you need to turn video conversion off (in addition the i/p scaler).

however, nobody has complained about any visual video degradation with the video conversion left on (so the GUI / volume still overlays) on these new ABT equipped models (starting with 890/2310 last year). Your best bet is to compare for yourself; worst case scenario, if you DO detect a difference, you have recourse.

This is not the type of thing I would lose any sleep over though

Well in a perfect world, ha ha, I would hope they could have an overlay w/o any other processing of the video.

Apparently the new Onkyos do make a visual (for the worse) difference.

Is the Video Conversion on/off setting global or per input?

tia

ps

I saw a vid of last years 2310 and it still had the overlay when Video Conversion was set to OFF, bummer it's not the same on the 2311 but I'm sure they had a reason.

again, how can it overlay graphics WITHOUT processing the video in some way? the good news, however, is that this processing does NOT harm the video


per input, as with all video settings


this can't be correct, the 2310 works the exact same way... trust me, I own one

Awesome, that's really good to know.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgvPPheuRRk

I see Video Conversion being toggled on and off yet the OSD is always there, unless I am missing something. Perhaps it doesn't go away until you exit the menu?

the part you missed is that the OSD no longer OVERLAYS -- when he switches off Video Conversion, that part that disappears in the video feed of Mario & co . Note how the display blanks out, loses signal, and then has to re-sync to the (now standard def) GUI?

when you turn off video conversion, the OSD/GUI doesn't disappear completely, it just can't OVERLAY on top of the video. So it behaves just like a lower level model would, where when you open up the GUI the video feed disappears, the screen blanks out, and then it re-syncs with the GUI (e.g. it effectively becomes a "tier 2" model according to the chart in question #2 of my FAQ)

Are there any bench tests out for the 891? I'd like to know what it could do with 4 ohm speakers, 5 channels driven.

(1) it just came out!!!!

(2) even so, there is no need to wait for the tests as I can guarantee it will not do well with 4-ohm speakers, especially not with all channels driven; see the bench tests for the 3310 here. With receivers getting lighter every year, it would be foolish to assume that the 2311/891 will be BETTER in this respect....

big, big thx batpig, your hands on experience is appreciated

Please provide the result. I have the 608 and the same issue. Thinking about returning for the Denon if this is working.

Thanks

Do these models still support the sirrius/xm tuner add on?

I just set up a new home theatre system yesterday consisting of the following:

Denon AVR-891 Receiver
Samsung BD-C6900 Blu-Ray Player
Samsung PN50C7000 3D TV
Samsung 3D Starter Kit
Monster High-Speed (15.8gbs) HDMI Cables

Everything seems to be working perfect except when I attempt to watch the Monsters vs. Aliens 3D that came with the 3D starter kit.

I hear the sound just fine but the picture does not display. It looks like the receiver is having trouble getting the signal from the player as the overlay displays a "no-picture" error message. However, the picture does display correctly in 2D.

The strange thing is when I plug the BD-C6900 Blu-Ray player into the TV the picture displays in 3D. Has anyone else encountered this issue? Does anyone have any idea about what might be causing the issue? I love the Denon AVR-891 receiver and I would hate to have to return it for a different receiver as everything technically should work. Am I missing a setting somewhere on the Denon?

Oh boy i guess u have the issue of 3D content pass-thru again, just like what i have from my Onkyo 608. Seems like the 3D signal is messed with by the AVR. Check your settings though to see if you in fact set the HDMI to pass-thru instead of upconverting or anything else.

Actually it is probably not the same problem.
The 608 displays 3D Monsters/Aliens from BD player just fine. I think it has problems with 3D picture from DirectTV boxes (which probably uses some different format - I am guessing one of the new ones from HDMI 1.4a). And that's not complete lack of picture, just that people have to select "side by side mode" manually.

If there's no picture at all, it's something more fundamental. Try different HDMI inputs (I has a Pioneer unit with one bad input). Make sure HDMI input assignments are correct, and unit is switched to right input.

new HDMI technology.... new HDMI format.... and a whole new round of HDMI problems to solve what a poorly executed technology

OK fair enough. But just make it simple. The "HDMI pass-thru" mode should preserve whatever it receives from the source (BD player/satellite box/cable box) to the TV, dont u think? Like a pipe that has nothing in it?

I think u r one of the denon experts... have u experienced this 3d passing in any of the new denon's?

nope, I don't have 3D and have no interest in it all I know is 3D and the various problems it will cause (especially in terms of HDMI crap) is going to be one of the most commonly asked "problems" in this year's round of Denon owner's threads.

owlish:

Someone has confirmed that the Onkyo has the problem with Directv boxes while the 2010 Denon series dont. I dont know if that convince you but i think i'm going to return the Onkyo for the Denon.

I used to work in the telecommunications industry and we would have "plug-fests" to test interoperability with other vendors of similar equipment.

I wonder if the CE vendors of HDMI equipment do the same thing? The marketplace doesn't make a good place to evaluate interop.

I don't have DirecTV to try, but 608 does pass 3D from BD player just fine. And someone here says Denon does not.

Maybe you need both

Official owner of a new 791! Couldn't justify the 891 with 2 new iphones and an ipad to boot. Looking forward to finally having and HDMI receiver (even though I know it has its issues) I'm sure I'll be back with questions some point soon.

Oh, and one last thing - F*** Harman Kardon. I've gone through two of their receivers in the last 8 years. I should've learned my lesson the first time.

Haha, i'd do this if i had 2 AVR: Connecting thru them sequentially lolz!

That would be funny.
Seriously though, can someone else with Denon/3DBD/3DTV confirm whether it passes 3DBD properly or not?

May not be any time soon cause the Denon's are newest, as well as other 3D components.