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SED is dead (official this time)

post #1 of 38
Thread Starter 
Now it's official

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUST...e=ustechnology



I've talked about this 2 years ago but it has been closed
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1038135

And of course someone I would not mention couldn't believe it
post #2 of 38
damn

Hopefully they end up making a 60" for commercial use and I'll buy it anyway
post #3 of 38
RGB32 posted the end of SED a few days ago in Flat Panel General: Push this Button
post #4 of 38
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

RGB32 posted the end of SED a few days ago in Flat Panel General: Push this Button

Sorry didn't see the thread (flatpanelshd is a little late on this news) ...
Anyway I keep this thread because it's not a "freeze" ... it has been already frozen during the last 5 years
post #5 of 38
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaddix View Post

damn

Hopefully they end up making a 60" for commercial use and I'll buy it anyway

It was just a vaporware technology ... it's one thing to show some prototypes, it's another to mass produce them at a competitive price ...

Back in 2006, an industry insider said about Sed "too little, too late ..."
He was damn right !!
post #6 of 38
Did it have any distinct advantages over OLED anyway?
post #7 of 38
If you read the link provided you will see that they have not stopped their development for medical imaging systems where the best quality detail is more important the cost.
post #8 of 38
I guess this is the end in the advancement of picture quality. All we get now is gimmicky 3-d TV.
post #9 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by twinbee View Post

Did it have any distinct advantages over OLED anyway?

it's a thin crt man
post #10 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaddix View Post

it's a thin crt man


Not quite.
post #11 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zues View Post

Not quite.

I mean it's a thin crt without any geometry issues !
post #12 of 38
Medical imaging displays don't typically exceed 30".
post #13 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

I guess this is the end in the advancement of picture quality. All we get now is gimmicky 3-d TV.

3D is only one minor aspect of television tech so that's not "all we get now". Most people don't even care about 3D.

And it's not the end - the picture quality of Plasmas and LCD TVs are improving every year and the future is looking promising for both - there is no need for expensive SED - the current technologies look plenty good enough for 98% of the buying public and for WAY less than an SED TV would have been. SED so far has been a total waste of time and AVS bandwidth. Good riddance
post #14 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

3D is only one minor aspect of television tech so that's not "all we get now". Most people don't even care about 3D.

And it's not the end - the picture quality of Plasmas and LCD TVs are improving every year and the future is looking promising for both - there is no need for expensive SED - the current technologies look plenty good enough for 98% of the buying public and for WAY less than an SED TV would have been. SED so far has been a total waste of time and AVS bandwidth. Good riddance

LCD and Plasma may be improving every year, but there are problems with both that seem fundamental to the technologies, and if they are not, then the manufacturers do not seem interested in fixing them.

Contrast still sucks on 90% of the displays out thereonly the 9G Pioneers and the latest generation of Panasonics are passable. (though I have not seen a VT20 in person I'm told it is very close to an LX5090)

Plasma is inherently flawed and will always suffer from poor gradation, and at least on televisions, it looks like LCD is stuck with that too. They still suffer from requiring an ABL circuit and while they're improving, they are still not that good in bright light. Image retention is still a problem even on the latest sets.

Viewing angles & motion handling are awful on LCD and do not really seem to have improved much in recent years. Rather than try to fix motion handling we've seen junk like 120/240Hz interpolation to try and hide it instead. Contrast is universally bad.

As it stands, it looks like OLED is the only technology we have to look forward to in the near future, and that still looks to be a few years off yet. Who knows how it will actually turn out, and prices are likely to remain high without any competition. All current designs are AMOLED and it's my understanding that we need passive matrix displays to eliminate sample & hold.

SED and FED were really the only thing in the near future that could have competed with OLED, and potentially had some advantages over it. FED was virtually immune to dead/stuck pixels for example, and OLED has already shown those problems. It was also capable of 10-bit gradation, and its native panel response was not far off a CRT-like gamma, which means more of that 10-bit response would actually be worthwhile unlike LCD where you have to throw away gradation to compensate for their S-curve response.


You are, unfortunately, correct in saying that 98% of the buying public are happy with the current state of display technology. All they seem to care about at this point is getting the displays thinner and cheaper.
post #15 of 38
One solution to the plasma gradation thing you mentioned is to bump the resolution up sky high! A display with 5 million pixels would have much better results with dithering than our current 2million pixel displays.
post #16 of 38
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

I guess this is the end in the advancement of picture quality. All we get now is gimmicky 3-d TV.

No way ! Oled has always been the future of display technology.
All display manufacturers, I mean every one has invested in Oled.
That's a pretty strong commitment ...
post #17 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaddix View Post

One solution to the plasma gradation thing you mentioned is to bump the resolution up sky high! A display with 5 million pixels would have much better results with dithering than our current 2million pixel displays.

While it might help reduce the appearance of dithering, I'm not convinced it would fix the problem. (which is more than just dithering)

You then have the problem of everything having to be upscaled on the display, so you may have improved one aspect of the image quality and degraded it in another.

Even the best upscaling available today still looks poor compared to displaying sources at their native resolution.
post #18 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewfee View Post

LCD and Plasma may be improving every year, but there are problems with both that seem fundamental to the technologies, and if they are not, then the manufacturers do not seem interested in fixing them.

Contrast still sucks on 90% of the displays out thereonly the 9G Pioneers and the latest generation of Panasonics are passable. (though I have not seen a VT20 in person I'm told it is very close to an LX5090)

Plasma is inherently flawed and will always suffer from poor gradation, and at least on televisions, it looks like LCD is stuck with that too. They still suffer from requiring an ABL circuit and while they're improving, they are still not that good in bright light. Image retention is still a problem even on the latest sets.

Viewing angles & motion handling are awful on LCD and do not really seem to have improved much in recent years. Rather than try to fix motion handling we've seen junk like 120/240Hz interpolation to try and hide it instead. Contrast is universally bad.

As it stands, it looks like OLED is the only technology we have to look forward to in the near future, and that still looks to be a few years off yet. Who knows how it will actually turn out, and prices are likely to remain high without any competition. All current designs are AMOLED and it's my understanding that we need passive matrix displays to eliminate sample & hold.

SED and FED were really the only thing in the near future that could have competed with OLED, and potentially had some advantages over it. FED was virtually immune to dead/stuck pixels for example, and OLED has already shown those problems. It was also capable of 10-bit gradation, and its native panel response was not far off a CRT-like gamma, which means more of that 10-bit response would actually be worthwhile unlike LCD where you have to throw away gradation to compensate for their S-curve response.


You are, unfortunately, correct in saying that 98% of the buying public are happy with the current state of display technology. All they seem to care about at this point is getting the displays thinner and cheaper.

+1 for the most part.

Here's Samung's recent take on the inherent issues with PDP, LCD, and OLED:



Source - http://blogs.pcmag.com/miller/2010/0...llion_oled.php

Quote:


"A market is created, not forecast," he said, noting that that 5 years ago, a Samsung executive said 100 million sets were possible by 2010, though projections then were much smaller. The actual number will be more 180 million. In OLEDs, he believes that rather than the 600 millions of mobile OLED displays that he forecast for 2015, the market could actually support 1 billion units. He also believes the TV challenges would be met, and AMOLED will become the mainstream display technology for TVs by 2015. It's an ambitious goal.
...
Meanwhile, C. S. Chuang, Senior Manager, AUO pushed an new backplane technology, and said that right now OLED displays use more power than LCDs, but that should change by 2012.

So, manufacturers will start moving away from using LCD backplanes for OLED displays and use backplanes specifically for OLEDs.

I would've loved to see the real 240Hz (240fps) FED demo. It was 4 Playstation 3 systems running GT5 = 4x60fps = 240Hz source signal.

While Sony stopped selling the XEL-1, they are still working on OLED displays. Sony demoed a 11.7" OLED display (same rez as the XEL-1) last month at SID... so perhaps Sony will start selling OLED displays again next year. So, based off of what I saw at SID 2010, displays will most definitely improve each year. I predict a true successor to the XBR8 in '11.
post #19 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewfee View Post

Even the best upscaling available today still looks poor compared to displaying sources at their native resolution.


How do you figure this? Dvd displayed at 480i looks nowhere near as good as 1080i-p.
post #20 of 38
Doesn't OLED still have burn in issues? Making it bad for computer displays. Wonder how many more years i'll have to keep using CRT till something comes along that matches or beats.
post #21 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teyasio View Post

Doesn't OLED still have burn in issues? Making it bad for computer displays. Wonder how many more years i'll have to keep using CRT till something comes along that matches or beats.

CRT also has burn-in issues.
post #22 of 38
nahh lol...... I played 4 years of FFXI on a CRT, never shut the game off even when I slept. Not even a hint of BI whatsoever
post #23 of 38
Canon is finally liquidating their SED subsidiary. Gave up on trying to produce a SED based commercial monitor. Story here.
post #24 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zues View Post

How do you figure this? Dvd displayed at 480i looks nowhere near as good as 1080i-p.

Because scaling is a lossy process unless it can be done using integer instead of decimal values.
post #25 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaddix View Post

nahh lol...... I played 4 years of FFXI on a CRT, never shut the game off even when I slept. Not even a hint of BI whatsoever

Modern CRTs are difficult to burn it (but it is possible). set the contrast to maximum and leave a static image for a week
post #26 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewfee View Post

Contrast still sucks on 90% of the displays out there—only the 9G Pioneers and the latest generation of Panasonics are passable. (though I have not seen a VT20 in person I'm told it is very close to an LX5090)

Contrast has been improved and the nearly all modern LCDs can produce ANSI contrast far greater than a CRT.

Also, the low-end (2010) 40" S-PVA panel from Samsung can natively yield 0.03 ANSI black, which is a major improvement compared to last year's high-end models (0.06).

PS: AUO will be releasing their AMVA5 soon, which they claim to have 16,000:1 ANSI CR. Even if that's exaggerated, it should match the blacks rendered by V20 and VT20. With a little help from local LEDs, the dynamic range could be improved to match/beat the KURO.
post #27 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lessard View Post

No way ! Oled has always been the future of display technology.
All display manufacturers, I mean every one has invested in Oled.
That's a pretty strong commitment ...

When people see a 40-50 Transparent OLED with thickness of 10mm next to a standard LCD/PDP/SED/FED... well you get the idea
post #28 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lessard View Post


No way ! Oled has always been the future of display technology.
All display manufacturers, I mean every one has invested in Oled.
That's a pretty strong commitment ...

As per my post in the OLED thread, OLED came and died about 5 years ago. The screen on top of the flip phone back then was probably OLED

Only samsung continued to invest in OLED while the rest gave up. that's why they are now the only one mass producing it.
post #29 of 38
That is far from the truth. The potential of OLED is immense.

ATM, OLED is reached by more manufacturers and private/public institute than previous technologies combined. To list a few:

Sony
Samsung
LG
CMI
AUO
Philips
Epson

If you wish lean more, click on the links below

http://www.oled-info.com/companies

http://www.oled-info.com/
post #30 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nielo TM View Post

Contrast has been improved and the nearly all modern LCDs can produce ANSI contrast far greater than a CRT.

Also, the low-end (2010) 40" S-PVA panel from Samsung can natively yield 0.03 ANSI black, which is a major improvement compared to last year's high-end models (0.06).

PS: AUO will be releasing their AMVA5 soon, which they claim to have 16,000:1 ANSI CR. Even if that's exaggerated, it should match the blacks rendered by V20 and VT20. With a little help from local LEDs, the dynamic range could be improved to match/beat the KURO.

Who will use AMVA5, though? Samsung seems to be making strides with SPVA.

Maybe LG or Phillips? I want to see these panels in action, but who knows which manufacturer will want to pay the premium.
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