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NEW MITSUBISHI HC 9000 : FULL HD, 3D and..... Lcos panels - Page 9

post #241 of 832
1st English review out HC9000 http://avscience.com/2011/04/mitsubishi-hc9000d-review/
post #242 of 832
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

1st English review out HC9000 http://avscience.com/2011/04/mitsubishi-hc9000d-review/

FYI,
MSRP in Canada is $2000 Cheaper

Thats got to be a First ,
Thanks to the Strong Canadian Flying Loonie
post #243 of 832
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgathright View Post

Would this PJ be able to give me enough foot lamberts for a 133" HP screen from 16'? I do have some ambient light. Right now I am using a Mits HC6000 and am satisfied with the brightness at the low setting.

I still would like to know this answer!!! Using the calculator at Projector Central the HC9000 would have 16fl's while the old HC6000 would have 15fl's.
post #244 of 832
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgathright View Post

I still would like to know this answer!!! Using the calculator at Projector Central the HC9000 would have 16fl's while the old HC6000 would have 15fl's.

If you are satisfied with the HC6000, you will be over the moon with the HC9000, its way brighter! I have my HC9000 on a scope 144" screen and on HIGH lamp I have heaps of light!
post #245 of 832
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

Hi you are satisfied with the HC6000, you will be over the moon with the HC9000, its way brighter! I have my HC9000 on a scope 144" screen and on HIGH lamp I have heaps of light!

Hi -what gain is your screen? I have a 142" 16:9 Dalite 2.8HP and run all my projectors dead center because I prefer a bright image. My RS50 wasn't great to begin at only ~520 D65 lumens with a new lamp. It's down to 360 @ 220hours and is getting too dim for my preferences.

My other projector is the inexpensive Acer 3D DLP which puts out 1300 D65 and 800 in 3D. This is more like it and easily can watch TV with a room full of lights.

How many hours do you have on your lamp in the HC9000? Have you noticed any dimming since new?

thanks to everyone for the feedback so far. I wish this projector was released at the same time as JVC to compete early on with the mid-priced RS50/X7. The lumens in 3D are making me jealous.. 900 and 1100 is fantastic compared to my RS50.
post #246 of 832
Thanks for the comments guys.

As for the DI I am not a fan of using it during the movie the way it was meant to work. I think it is fairly loud and way to slow. The only DI I have seen that works properly is on the Runco LS series as they use a very different method to drive it. They use a system very similar to a speaker and voice coil which is very fast.

rgathright: Use the projectorcentral calc to see if the distance will work or Mark might be able to answer that question. I do not have the pj any more but Mark will haveit soon. As for brightness the quick answer is yes it is bright enough for your application. Of course you will hear many different answers on that


I
post #247 of 832
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Hi -what gain is your screen? I have a 142" 16:9 Dalite 2.8HP and run all my projectors dead center because I prefer a bright image. My RS50 wasn't great to begin at only ~520 D65 lumens with a new lamp. It's down to 360 @ 220hours and is getting too dim for my preferences.

My other projector is the inexpensive Acer 3D DLP which puts out 1300 D65 and 800 in 3D. This is more like it and easily can watch TV with a room full of lights.

How many hours do you have on your lamp in the HC9000? Have you noticed any dimming since new?

thanks to everyone for the feedback so far. I wish this projector was released at the same time as JVC to compete early on with the mid-priced RS50/X7. The lumens in 3D are making me jealous.. 900 and 1100 is fantastic compared to my RS50.

My screen is matte white 1.0 no gain. I have about 40hrs on the lamp, there is no dimming its as bright as day one!
post #248 of 832
Hi David,

Thanx so much for your effort reviewing this interesting projector.
I understand that all and all you were very much impressed with the projector’s contrast and colors (after calibration).
I do however miss some comparison to other projectors with similar MSRP, like the Sony 90 or the JVC RS50.

How would u compare the 9000 to the Sony or the JVC?

Thanx once more

Ran
post #249 of 832
Thanks for this comparison. I used to own a Mitsubishi 720p DLP machine and it was one of the best I ever owned. I'd certainly buy Mitsubishi again after that. I now own the HD750. So basically the HD750 still has the better absolute black level but the Mits throws more lumens? Interesting trade off. With 750 hours on my present lamp black levels are superb but I'd like more lumens. How is the pixel alignment on your Mits compared to the HD750 and is it any more adjustable than the HD750?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lozoppo View Post

Last friday the HC9000 replaced my JVC HD750.

Out of the box with Preset "Cinema" and 6500K and activated cinema filter and
iris set to fully open, I measured ~800 lumens in eco mode and ~950 lumen in lamp high with my lux meter (center measure). Compared to the HD750 this is a step up from 800 lumens for the JVC at high mode and iris open. Not dramatic but it helps to to supply enough light for my 2.8m Cheaptrick for quite some time.

At this setting I measured also an on/off contrast of 17000:1. Not bad at all.
With the HD750 at iris full open I measured 32000:1 at the same position.
So this is only half of what I had before. But to me this is only noticeable in complete black outs and it does not really bother me. Closing down the iris half way, I measured around 21000:1, not much more but the light output drops noticeably (havent measured yet how much).

I would not recommend the variable iris: It waits long before it reacts, and if it finally does it is neither doing it in real time nor quiet. If you thought Epson iris is slow and loud, you have seen nothing yet.

I use the Frame interpolation in "true movie" mode (the lesser one) and am very pleased. It does a good job at reducing motion blur but without introducing soap look. After around 12 hours of movies watching I have not yet spotted a single artifact that I could blame on the FI. The motion blur was my biggest problem with the HD750 (and other projectors without FI) so I am very pleased with the HC9000. If you want even more fluid motion you can switch to "real video" FI, but then it does look kind of artificial to me.

Another big plus for the Mitsubishi: No banding/solarisation in motion or red/cyan shift at moving high contrast edges like the HD750 showed at certain scenes.


All in all I would not say that the Mitsubishi "blows the HD750 out of the water" but the added brightness, the better motion handling and the absence of the banding /color artifacts make for a nice upgrade.
post #250 of 832
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canary_Jules View Post

Thanks for this comparison. I used to own a Mitsubishi 720p DLP machine and it was one of the best I ever owned. I'd certainly buy Mitsubishi again after that. I now own the HD750. So basically the HD750 still has the better absolute black level but the Mits throws more lumens? Interesting trade off. With 750 hours on my present lamp black levels are superb but I'd like more lumens. How is the pixel alignment on your Mits compared to the HD750 and is it any more adjustable than the HD750?

My pixel alignment out of the box was perfect, however dont know about others.
post #251 of 832
Guys,

The pixel alignment was not off much but a half a pixel is still enough in this price range. The Sony VW90ES uses the same newest generation SXRD panels. I do not know if the Mits shares the same chassis or not. The HW20 also uses the same panels. I have not had a chance to look at either of these or any of the current JVC models. I will see what I can do about getting a JVC HD50 or 60 and maybe even the Sony since it is a direct competitor.

The light output was very strong and overall you should be happy with the projector. I would have liked to see a better CMS that adjusted to D65 and RGB standards, but many options and tweaks to keep anyone busy if they want to tinker.
post #252 of 832
Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

My screen is matte white 1.0 no gain. I have about 40hrs on the lamp, there is no dimming its as bright as day one!

Would you mind sharing your throw distance. I think this is my last question before pulling the trigger. The projector is sounding like a winner. Hopefully there wont be any unpleasant surprises as more people start to use them and log hours (a la the RS50 issues people have come to find).
post #253 of 832
Quote:
Originally Posted by rovingtravler View Post

Thanks for the comments guys.

As for the DI I am not a fan of using it during the movie the way it was meant to work. I think it is fairly loud and way to slow. The only DI I have seen that works properly is on the Runco LS series as they use a very different method to drive it. They use a system very similar to a speaker and voice coil which is very fast.

I

I used to have a Sony VPL50 with DI and didn't think it was too loud or distracting. I'll probably disable it as you have suggested, but I'm curious if it is louder than the Sony implementation. Do you have any opinion on how this implementation compares to the Sony? While it is clear you are not a fan of DI in genreal, I wonder if the Mitsubishi has a poor implementation or if it is on par with others in its class.
post #254 of 832
Movie Guy,

I actually am a fan of DI; if a company spends the money to make it work properly. With an action moive or a fair amount of sound it may not be noticable to some. I could hear it everytime there was a large adjustment. The Runco system is faster and you cannot hear it. That is all I am saying. I think it is a great technology and as companies refine their systems it will continue to improve and therefore improve the PQ as well.

I hope to receive a sony for review. I will let you know if I have the chance to compare them.
post #255 of 832
Hi All. Weather delayed the arrival of our review machine but it should arrive today. I am getting ready and Tom Huffman and I will give it a workout on Sunday. If we can't calibrate it using the CMS (we shall see), we will use a Lumagen. I have poured over over the review yesterday and have done a little pre research.

The throw range is about 1.59 to 2.86 times the screen width. Rather long like the JVC, the zoom ratio of the unit is 1.8 vs 2.0 of the JVCs, way long enough for zooming for constant height, though the JVC has a small closest throw of about 1.4. So say for an 8 ft wide screen, the JVC could be mounted about 1.6 ft closer.

There seems to be some confusion as to whether the machine is rated at 1100ANSI lumens or 1000 ANSI lumens. I assume based on what I expect to measure, 1000 would be closer to actual new bulb performance than 1100 not that one would ever measure 1000 except perhaps under absurb operation settings. Far better if manufacturers would rate lumens at d65 short throw iris wide open in normal and high modes. Easy to calculate how things will change as one goes to long throw. Interesting the lens besides having a long throw ratio has a tremendous increase in effective F stop as one goes from short to long throw. At short throw the effective F stop is 2.1, while at long throw its 3.9. What this means is that the machine will be much brighter mounted at short throw. And for 3D use I think it would be imperative to mount at short throw. If the effective F stop range was 2.0 to 4.0 (as stated it is 2.1 to 3.9), the lens would transmit 75% less light at long throw than at short. So in theory we are looking at about a 65% drop off.

Based on others observations, the DI is not the world's greatest being noisy, slow yada yada. At least its there for use under special circumstances though most would not use it. Many wouldn't use a DI if it operated quietly and seamlessly. Sort of a religeous thing. But whatever. Not a deal breaker. If I were the manufacturer and this was the best they can do, I would not have included it but I would assume they do so for marketing purposes and being able to claim a DI assisted on off of whatever they claimed. Marketing. I suspect the unassisted on off will be just fine with the new panels.

Should be an interesting weekend. Alas I remember when such a comment would have been with respect to various young ladies instead of projectors.
post #256 of 832
Mark - please comment on the 3D lumen performance. Several have stated they measured 900 & 1100 lumens (in a brightest type mode) which is excellent for 3D (especially on my 2.8HP), and substantially more than I can get out of my RS50.

I'd like to know if the CMS is any more hobbled than JVC's current version in the 50/60 and if their gamma controls are working better as well.

I might buy one to replace my RS50 based on your feedback. thanks.
post #257 of 832
Re 3D testing. Like most others, I won't be able to. The emitters are not available yet. Very soon but not yet, the first batch was bad. The monster emitter and glasses will work andt we have ordered but they are back ordered. I do have a 3D Bluray but FIOS doesn't offer any 3D yet. The Lumagen will now convert the non conforming format that DTV uses for ESPN 3D that the JVC won't handleto what it will handle.
post #258 of 832
Quote:
Originally Posted by movieguy2001 View Post

Would you mind sharing your throw distance. I think this is my last question before pulling the trigger. The projector is sounding like a winner. Hopefully there wont be any unpleasant surprises as more people start to use them and log hours (a la the RS50 issues people have come to find).

5 meters
post #259 of 832
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

The monster emitter and glasses will work andt we have ordered but they are back ordered. I do have a 3D Bluray but FIOS doesn't offer any 3D yet.

The MonsterVision max emitter has a 3 pin DIN which seems to be the same as on new new JVC RS units. However, the HC9000 has a 5 pin DIN. Are you certain that they'll work?
post #260 of 832
The Mitsu rep said they would work but I do not know. And I won't know for a while. The machine came in this afternoon and Tom Huffman took it to his lab to calibrate it and take meassuremrents, to evaluate the CMS yada yada. I will get it back over the weekend and look at it myself.
post #261 of 832
Thanks for checking it out Mark. Hopefully your rep was right so we wouldn't have to wait for their emitter and glasses. Below is what I dug up from the manuals.

post #262 of 832
5 pin din. 3 pin din. I am not re familar with either emitter. Could be the extr pins are for the power Really can't tell much until I get samples of each to play with.
post #263 of 832
I'm considering this as a first projector for a newly built home theater. I have a 125" diagonal 1.3gain screen. The projector ceiling mount is 16' from the screen.

If I try and plug these numbers into the Projector Central calculator it appears that this projector does not have the horsepower for this application. Yet from reading the threads it appears that it does. What gives? Is the PC calculator not a good tool?

Thanks,
post #264 of 832
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbethers View Post

I'm considering this as a first projector for a newly built home theater. I have a 125" diagonal 1.3gain screen. The projector ceiling mount is 16' from the screen.

If I try and plug these numbers into the Projector Central calculator it appears that this projector does not have the horsepower for this application. Yet from reading the threads it appears that it does. What gives? Is the PC calculator not a good tool?

Thanks,

In the Midst of this projectors amazing Features and all the different ways it can Wow the Masses,
I am still blown away that the MSRP in Canada is Cheaper.

I think this is a Start to things to come...
As long as the US keeps up the large spending I think this will be the future norm.
Wow would that take some time to getting use to.....
post #265 of 832
Mbethers. You screen is about 45 sq ft in area. A throw of 16 ft with your size screen places the projector at a throw ratio of about 1.77. the closest throw possible for maximum brightness would be 1.59. So you are going close to closest throw and the lens would have a faily low effective f stop at that throw (the lower the better). The damn thing is a light canon and we have had to go to the low lamo mode and crank in mid iris (position 2) to make it watchable instead of glaringly bright. Of course this is with low lamp hours.


Using the cited calculator one gets 23 ft lamberts. That is plenty bright. At the top of the calculator there is a check circle choice of 3 uses for the prpjector. The calculator offers the choice of presentation, data, or video gaming. Something like that. Set the calculator to video/gaming, that is for using the projector in dark rooms.


More to come.

Preliminary use of the gray scale controls shows color temp can be set properly. However, the CMS while having the right controls needs more work. Use of an external CMS is recommended. More later.
post #266 of 832
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canary_Jules View Post

Thanks for this comparison. I used to own a Mitsubishi 720p DLP machine and it was one of the best I ever owned. I'd certainly buy Mitsubishi again after that. I now own the HD750. So basically the HD750 still has the better absolute black level but the Mits throws more lumens? Interesting trade off. With 750 hours on my present lamp black levels are superb but I'd like more lumens. How is the pixel alignment on your Mits compared to the HD750 and is it any more adjustable than the HD750?

With ~650h on my HD750 lamp I had around 120 Lux left on my 2,8m wide cheaptrick screen = ~ 530 lumens.
With high lamp, iris totally opened, and distance around 4,8-5m from screen (have to measure this)
It was ok, but not "in your face" punchy anymore.
With fresh lamp (and "clean lamp bay") I started out with 183 lux IIRC = ~810 lumens.

The HC9000, same mounting position, high lamp, open iris, 6500K and cinema filter started out with 180+ lux in eco mode and more than 220 (was around 970 lumen IIRC) lux in high lamp.
Without cinema filter I got close to 1200 lumens. The price is a yellowish/greenish colorshift to the image.

The pixel alignment is good, although I had to shift blue +1 vertically and horizontally, maybe because I have lots of lensshift down. There is no 0.1 shift like the Sony has. Which is only an interpolation anyway.
Red and green of my HC9000 are aligned at < 0.5 pixels pretty much linearly over the whole image, no shift needed there.

The iris is crap. Slow and loud. Just test it with a 0 IRE/100IRE test pattern and you will see/hear what I mean.
Doesn't bother me too much, with 17000:1 on/off in _worst_ case I am content right now, because of the good light output, the good FI, and the absence of solarisation/colorshift artifacts.
post #267 of 832
We spent the afternoon setting up the projector in my HT. We cleaned my Stewart 1.3 gain screen and the cleaning restored the gain to 1.3. All measurements were done at d65. Perfect gray scale could be obtained by using the projector RGB cut and gain controls. The CMS however does not work. Saying it needs more work is asn understatement. The right controls are there but two of the controls didn't do anything and the third control did something other than it is supposed to do. The colors weren't bad out of the box (primaries and secondaries). However, Tom used my Lumagen and dialed them in perfectly. We are talking Des in the tenths. There are a whole bunch of steps by which gamma curves can be customized but the steps are closely spaced at the extremes with very few steps near the middle with large gaps. The Lumagen 21 point gama steps (5% intervals) to the rescue and a precise 2.2 curve dialed in. Tom's Chromapure software made it simple.

There are many many controls. You can get a read out of exactly how far you have moved lens shift and it can be recentered easily with the read outs. On normal mode, the projector is really quiet. On high lamp, the fan became slightly audible in a quiet room but really is quiet there too. The DI is not the best and I decided it should be used only on really dark movies. There is a setting where there are I think 18 iris steps that can be selected rather than just the three presets that have been reported, The picture is really bright on my screen having about twice the lumens that we measured from my Vango which itself gives me about 14 ft lamberts. Tom has the exact numbers. I dialed in a little iris to make things watchable.

I spent a lot of time reading the manual skipping most of the 3D stuff. I should have a pair of glasses and an emitter later this week.

There is a setting in the screen menu called shutter with top and bottom shetter adjustments when the shutter is turned on. WTF is it I thought. The manual doesn't help explain what it does. Ta da! It is top and bottom masking.

The only other negative I found other than the non working CMS and not that great a DI, is there is a slight amount of corner lightening when displaying the internal black test pattern. The slight corner lightness is not visible under normal viewing. It is very slight but it is there.

The picture is razor sharp. The lens is huge and the focus steps are very fine. I have never seen a reflectibe LCD panel machine look this sharp and you all know how I value and place top priority on sharpness. Couple this baby with a Lumagen mini and we have close to perfection. Did I say how bright this mother is? Of course that is with only about 15 hours on the lamp at about 1.7 throw.

More to follow. I have to do some watching with my new toy. Highly recommended.
post #268 of 832
Mark... If I may ask, what are the pros/cons of the HC9000D versus the Sony vw90ES?

Thanks for your review.

RJ
...
post #269 of 832
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

The only other negative I found other than the non working CMS and not that great DI, is there is a slight amount of corner lightening when displaying the internal black test pattern. The slight corner lightness is not visible under normal viewing. It is very slight but it is there.

The picture is razor sharp. The lens is hugh and the focus sateps are very fine. I have never seen a reflectibe LCD panel machine look this sharp and you all know how I value and place top priority on sharpness. Couple this baby with a Lumagen mini and we have close to perfection. Did I say how bright this mother is? Of course that is with only about 15 hours on the lamp at about 1.7 throw.

Similar findings to me Mark, the few negatives for me are easily outweighed by the sharp image, good contrast and detail and super bright loaded with lumen's image! For my 145" diag. scope screen the HC9000 its a light cannon.

The corner lightening on a black screen I find on all projectors even those that cost allot more
post #270 of 832
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bytehoven View Post

Mark... If I may ask, what are the pros/cons of the HC9000D versus the Sony vw90ES?

Thanks for your review.

RJ
...

I would think brighter, if its lumens you want and price
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