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Denon 3311 vs. Onkyo 808 vs. Pioneer SC-25 vs. Marantz 6004

post #1 of 33
Thread Starter 
I'm planning on buying a whole new setup. I'm thinking Axion M60v2 speakers but I haven't completely decided.

Here is my shortlist of receivers. Interested in recommendations.

Denon 3311
Onkyo 808
Pioneer SC-25
Marantz 6004

I'm not that interested in the network or Bluetooth features. Just looking for the best sound for TV, movies, and music (mostly iTunes type stuff).

Zach
post #2 of 33
You're probably going to end up with alot of personal opinions asking such a wide open question.

My opinion:
Get the Onkyo or Deno for Audyssey. Also, depending on the size of your room/how much power you need and wether or not you will be running an external amp -- since you don't care about features why not step down to the Onkyo 708 which still has pre-outs and you can then put more money into your speakers/external amp/bank account.
post #3 of 33
The onkyo @ 135 watts per, would be my pick, since I do more listening and less tweaking.
post #4 of 33
I would probably say the Onkyo as well, but they continue to disappoint me as they downgrade the Audyssey version higher and higher up the line. The SR/NR80x has been MultEQ for a few years now, but now they've downgraded the NR1008 to MultEQ from XT as well. I like Denon for sticking with MultEQ at much lower price points, but I feel their power is bit anemic in the mid to higher end AVRs.
post #5 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hopkins View Post

I would probably say the Onkyo as well, but they continue to disappoint me as they downgrade the Audyssey version higher and higher up the line. The SR/NR80x has been MultEQ for a few years now, but now they've downgraded the NR1008 to MultEQ from XT as well. I like Denon for sticking with MultEQ at much lower price points, but I feel their power is bit anemic in the mid to higher end AVRs.

The onkyo amps still have the balls to push full range speakers, the others fall short @ 4 ohms.
post #6 of 33
I would also say the Denon or the Onkyo for the Audyssey software. If you can save a few hundred on the Onkyo and put it towards a XPA-3 for $599 that would be a pretty nice set up.
post #7 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by googlegod View Post

The onkyo amps still have the balls to push full range speakers, the others fall short @ 4 ohms.

With the exception of the Denon which doesn't have an equivalent model tested HT mag shows these are all pretty capable into 4 ohms. In all channels driven the Onkyo was the worst and that's at 8 ohms but the best at 4ohm with 2 channel. There are tradeoffs.

Onkyo 807 (Last Year's model but the 808 appears to have the same amp rating)
2 Channel: 8 ohm 143 watts/ 4 ohm 240.2 watts
7 Channel: 8 ohms: 29.9 watts

Marantz 6004
2 Channel:8 ohm 111 watts/ 4 ohm 160 watts
7 Channel: 8 ohms: 70.8 watts

Pioneer SC-27 (SC-25 uses the same ICE amps)
2 Channel:8 ohm 151 watts/ 4 ohm 224 watts
7 Channel: 8 ohms: 107.4 watts

BTW, the Marantz has Audyssey as well.

I'd say they are all capable but if I were to pick a receiver on amps only I'd say the SC-25 would win among these. For 4 ohms and not being under extreme 7 channel conditions the difference between the lowest rating of 160 watts and 240 watts is 2db. If that 2 db is needed in your system than I'd really be looking at a separate amp to give greater headroom. IMHO, I think you are better looking features and sound quality than focusing on the amps amonst these receivers. Again, I don't know how the Denon rates.

Bob
post #8 of 33
and there is the pop of death to consider on the 6004
post #9 of 33
The Axiom M60v2 are 8 ohm speakers and are easily driven. I have the M60's with a Denon 3805 and they sould great to my ears. If you went with the Axiom M80's, they would be 4 ohm and probably would benefit from additional power.
post #10 of 33
If you don't need the network features, consider stepping down in receiverland. The 707 may suit you just fine.
post #11 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL View Post

Onkyo 807 (Last Year's model but the 808 appears to have the same amp rating)
2 Channel: 8 ohm 143 watts/ 4 ohm 240.2 watts
7 Channel: 8 ohms: 29.9 watts....

Is that a typo??? That doesn't bode well for that AVR!!!
post #12 of 33
I think the SR806 measured about the same as well. Real-world, with the OP's quite sensitive speakers, I wouldn't expect it to be hugely detrimental but it does speak to the step-down in power-supply made starting with the SR806 compared to the SR805. How the SR806 still got an Ultra2 certification is beyond me. They're doing the same thing with the NR1008 now compared to the NR1007, but at least they adjusted the THX certification when they did.
post #13 of 33
Thread Starter 
Thanks guys. I've made a few changes to the shortlist. In current order:

1.) Pioneer SC-25
I auditioned this at a local Best Buy and was impressed. Most attractive of the bunch. Most powerful.

2.) Onkyo TX-SR708.
Replaced the 808 because the feature set is the same just a little less power. Seems to be the most up to date feature wise including HDMI 1.4a (but I don't care about 3D).

3.) Denon AVR-2311CI
Replaced the 3311; same reason as the Onkyo. Strong recommendations. Don't really like the appearance.

I've eliminated the Marantz SR6004 given the price and lack of current features (other than Bluetooth which I'll never use).

Right now, I'm leaning towards the Pioneer. I'm not sure it's worth the extra cost. What do you guys think?

If I planned to run 4 ohm speakers would that change things at all?

Zach
post #14 of 33
4 ohm speakers I'd lean towards the Pioneer with ICE amps! how much extra is it over the Onkyo?

You could always get the Onkyo and add an external amp too!
http://emotiva.com/upa5.shtm
post #15 of 33
Thread Starter 
Retail it's double. $1,800 vs. $899. Non-retail it's not that bad.

Zach
post #16 of 33
before you buy the sc25 I think you better read the review from audioholics.com. The say the pioneer's are good with 8 ohm speakers but they fall apart with 4 ohms...the guy that wrote the article knows what he is talking about

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/r.../pioneer-sc-07
post #17 of 33
I believe they said a similar thing about the Denon 3310 in their review. I've set up a friend's Pioneer SC-27 and my own Denon, and I prefer the auto setup of Audyssey vs. the MCACC. Another thing to think about.
post #18 of 33
@zcasper Why don't you inlude the Marantz 7005 instead the 6004 (I know that you already removed it...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by steveklein View Post

If you don't need the network features, consider stepping down in receiverland. The 707 may suit you just fine.

The 708 also has network features...
post #19 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by onesolo View Post



The 708 also has network features...

Right, but I don't think the 707 does, and it probably can be had for a good bit cheaper.
post #20 of 33
No, the 707 does not have... but I think the 708 is superior to the 707... and is more updated...
post #21 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by onesolo View Post

No, the 707 does not have... but I think the 708 is superior to the 707... and is more updated...

I agree, but for the OP who doesn't seem to really need all the fancy networking and 2010 updates, a 2009 receiver that is significantly cheaper might be the better option.
post #22 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Hef View Post

Is that a typo??? That doesn't bode well for that AVR!!!

No typo, here is the link.
http://hometheatermag.com/receivers/...er/index4.html

All their reviews are online with the exception of the current issue.

If you really need the power a separate amp is the way to go.

Bob
post #23 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobL View Post

...If you really need the power a separate amp is the way to go....

Or a manufacturer that has AVRs pumping out all channels at close to the 2 channel rating. From that same magazine's reviews, the Pioneer and Denon offerings seem to have good output when all 7 channels are utilized.
post #24 of 33
I didn't include Denon 3311 in my earlier post because I'm not sure how its amps compare with the models tested (4310CI, 4810CI). The latter doesn't do as well on the 7 channel test at 30.9 watts.

Of the ones listed the Pioneer seems to be the best all around. Gene's article linked above also uses the same ICE amps and that might cause concern, something to consider. I'm not sure if Pioneer improved the amps since the SC-07.

All Channels Driven is somewhat of a torture test and an unlikely scenario for most. One should determine their amplifier needs/ desires and then buy the appropriate equipment. Not many pieces can reach reference levels at the seating position but few of us also listen that loud. It is nice to have that amount of dynamic range in a system. Here is a calculator for determing the amount of watts needed. Reference level is 105db. 3db of amplifier headroom is important but you can set that figure to 0 since the calculator doesn't account for room gain and you'll typically get at least 3db of room gain.

http://crownaudio.com/apps_htm/desig...ct-pwr-req.htm

If you need more than 30-50 watts to reach your desired levels you'll need a separate amp to allow for headroom. 3db headroom will double the amplifier power. If you are trying for reference levels, sensitivity of the speakers are a big consideration and typically it is worth putting the money into better speakers than bigger amps. Some may have to do both.

Bob
post #25 of 33
The Denon 3311 and the Onkyo 808 can be bought for close to the same price, with the Onkyo being slightly cheaper. Which one is better and why is the Denon a wimpy 27 lbs when the Onkyo is 40 lbs?

I should note that the Onkyo seems to win in terms of features, but have heard they suffer from some quality issues.
post #26 of 33
Bump? Is anyone able to compare specifically the Denon 3311ci vs the Onkyo NR808? I don't want to create a separate thread for this one question.
post #27 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by yelnatsch517 View Post

I don't want to create a separate thread for this one question.

I think you should...
post #28 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by yelnatsch517 View Post

Bump? Is anyone able to compare specifically the Denon 3311ci vs the Onkyo NR808? I don't want to create a separate thread for this one question.

is the 808 even out yet?
post #29 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Hef View Post

Is that a typo??? That doesn't bode well for that AVR!!!

It's not uncommon to see receivers drop off significantly in power with all channels driven, 20-20k.

Sony ES receivers have had this "problem" for many years*--they are very well built and can put relatively large amounts of power into 2 channels, but drop off severely in the all-channels-driven test. (Even today, a Sony DN1000 will test with more power all-channels-driven, than a DA5400ES which weighs probably double and will easily beat it in stereo mode.)

*The only exceptions to this for Sony in the past 6-7 years were the S-Master Pro Digital Drive receivers which didn't exhibit this problem, but only lasted a couple model years.

Though Sony has exhibited this across many ES models for some time, we know that all receivers are going to drop off to some degree in this test. There is no such thing as the "100W x 7" the manufacturers would lead people to believe. Well at least not for most receivers, especially those below the $2000 mark. The fact that the Onkyo drops down to about 30W per channel does seem low looking at the number, but it's not all that surprising. As BobL pointed out above as well, there have been some high level Denons that have exhibited similar behaviour in this test.

However, in the real world (where you aren't listening to sine waves and pushing every channel hard at the same time, all the time, throughout the entire frequency range), the lower power into 7 channels becomes less of a concern. This really is of much more importance than the relative torture test a receiver gets on the bench. If you aren't running into volume/power/distortion/clipping issues when playing back multi-channel material at usual listening levels, you shouldn't really care that a given receiver can do "only" 30-40W in such a test.
post #30 of 33
Hi all, currently debating between an Elite VSX 32 or Denon 3311ci, thoughts?

cheers
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