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Made my first 3D BluRay with 3D menu but

post #1 of 26
6/8/10 at 8:02am
Thread Starter 
I am able to make a 3D BluRay disc in side by side format with an awesome looking 3D menu.
It has a 3D video background with 3D video thumbnails and looks amazing.
The only problem is that I haven't any way to make it switch the 3DTV into 3D mode automatically. I'm guessing that us amateurs will not be able to do that.
Except for having to put the TV in 3D mode manually I think it's fantastic.
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post #2 of 26
6/8/10 at 8:47am
AFAIK the only automatic switching occurs when a new 3D BR player with it's HDMI 1.4 transmitter chip is playing a 3D BR disk and is outputting the new packed buffer 3D format to one of the new 3D TVs with their HDMI 1.4 receiver chips.
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post #3 of 26
6/8/10 at 8:51am
Any chance of an ISO download?
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post #4 of 26
6/8/10 at 8:55am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philnerd View Post

Any chance of an ISO download?

Not of this particular one unless I get the OK from someone who appears in it and so far she doesn't like the way she looks.
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post #5 of 26
6/8/10 at 9:16am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

AFAIK the only automatic switching occurs when a new 3D BR player with it's HDMI 1.4 transmitter chip is playing a 3D BR disk and is outputting the new packed buffer 3D format to one of the new 3D TVs with their HDMI 1.4 receiver chips.

As far as I know all of this is the case here, however no auto switching occurs. There must be something special about a 3D BR disc format that us amateurs can not put into the output.
I am using Sony DVD Architect Pro 5.
I don't know of any way for an amateur such as myself to produce the necessary encoding for 3D BR auto switching.
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post #6 of 26
6/8/10 at 10:13am
You said you created in in SxS, not frame packing.
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post #7 of 26
6/8/10 at 10:22am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by almostinsane View Post

You said you created in in SxS, not frame packing.

My understanding is SxS 1080I60 is in fact one of the standards for "frame packing" over HDMI 1.4x
Is this not correct?
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post #8 of 26
6/8/10 at 12:06pm
Frame packing and SbS are not the same.
The following link contains a description of the frame packing format.

http://hdguru.com/3d-hdtv-and-hdmi-explained/1336/
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post #9 of 26
6/8/10 at 1:14pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

Frame packing and SbS are not the same.
The following link contains a description of the frame packing format.

http://hdguru.com/3d-hdtv-and-hdmi-explained/1336/

That link does not suggest that FHD3D is the only allowed format for BluRay. for 1080P for example only 24 frames per second is allowed (movie film std)(1920x2160)
60 hertz is allowed for 720P (1280x1440)
My understanding is 1080I60 side by side is allowed but just not mentioned in this particular article.
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post #10 of 26
6/8/10 at 2:09pm
I doubt Sony Vegas/DVD Architect has support for MVC codec. Are you encoding in VC1 or AVC?
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post #11 of 26
6/8/10 at 2:15pm
Frank:

AFAIK, 3D BD will have two frame packed formats:

FP 1080x24P for movies

FP 720x60P for games (PS3)

At one time Panasonic was talking about FP 1080x60i but AFAIK, it never made it into the official specs - which unfortunately are not published by the BDA.

Richard Paul has a lot of info on this. Maybe he will join the thread.
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post #12 of 26
6/8/10 at 2:28pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by almostinsane View Post

i doubt sony vegas/dvd architect has support for mvc codec. Are you encoding in vc1 or avc?

avc
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post #13 of 26
6/8/10 at 2:32pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Frank:

AFAIK, 3D BD will have two frame packed formats:

FP 1080x24P for movies

FP 720x60P for games (PS3)

At one time Panasonic was talking about FP 1080x60i but AFAIK, it never made it into the official specs - which unfortunately are not published by the BDA.

Richard Paul has a lot of info on this. Maybe he will join the thread.

It's pretty strange. What about 3D video such as from Discovery and so forth. Are they shooting at 24 FPS. That's hard to believe.
I'm more confused then ever but at least I'm having fun.
Too bad I have to push 12 buttons to get into and out of 3D mode on my Panny. Auto switching is the way to go.
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post #14 of 26
6/8/10 at 2:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank View Post

It's pretty strange. What about 3D video such as from Discovery and so forth. Are they shooting at 24 FPS. That's hard to believe.
I'm more confused then ever but at least I'm having fun.
Too bad I have to push 12 buttons to get into and out of 3D mode on my Panny. Auto switching is the way to go.

It may be a case where they shoot in 1080i for HD video but not for 3D. They may use 1080x24P exclusively for 3D.

The concert U23D was shot using the Pace Fusion 3D camera system which is done at 24 FPS. I believe (???) Hanna Montana, Best Of Both Worlds was the same thing.
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post #15 of 26
6/8/10 at 2:42pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

It may be a case where they shoot in 1080i for HD video but not for 3D. They may use 1080x24P exclusively for 3D.

24 FPS for movies? OK
For nature documentaries? Don't like it at all.
I see lots of slow,slow agonizing pans....or a lot of judder. Yuk!
I think I actually prefer my home made 60i half res. It looks awesome.
Sure would like to find out some way to force the 3DTV into the right 3D mode automatically. I suppose this will remain a deep dark secret known only to those with million dollar systems.
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post #16 of 26
6/8/10 at 2:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank View Post

Not of this particular one unless I get the OK from someone who appears in it and so far she doesn't like the way she looks.

Reminds me of European Vacation for some reason.. "Hey big spender"
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post #17 of 26
6/8/10 at 2:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank View Post

24 FPS for movies? OK
For nature documentaries? Don't like it at all.
I see lots of slow,slow agonizing pans....or a lot of judder. Yuk!
I think I actually prefer my home made 60i half res. It looks awesome.
Sure would like to find out some way to force the 3DTV into the right 3D mode automatically. I suppose this will remain a deep dark secret known only to those with million dollar systems.

You ever see an IMAX 3D doc? It is shot at 24FPS.
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post #18 of 26
6/8/10 at 2:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

You ever see an IMAX 3D doc? It is shot at 24FPS.

Sure have.
Noticed lots of judder and slow pans.
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post #19 of 26
6/8/10 at 3:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank View Post

Sure have.
Noticed lots of judder and slow pans.

At a theater? Showing 24FPS at 48FPS doesn't produce frame judder. And they have to use Sloooow pans. If they used fast pans, the audience would get vertigo. AFAIK, they try not to pan at all when they shoot in IMAX, 2D or 3D.
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post #20 of 26
6/8/10 at 3:08pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

At a theater? Showing 24FPS at 48FPS doesn't produce frame judder. And they have to use Sloooow pans. If they used fast pans, the audience would get vertigo. AFAIK, they try not to pan at all when they shoot in IMAX, 2D or 3D.

Yes, at a 3D IMAX theater of course.
They could project at 10 times 24FPS and I would still see "judder" simply because it looks unnatural to me and always has.
I've shot some 2D HDVIDEO at 24FPS and I don't like the way it looks so I now stay with 60I.
I can shoot 3D right now at 24FPS but I have no way to output it in 1920x2160 top bottom format for BluRay, beside I think I prefer half-rez 60i anyway..

P.S.
If you were to shoot video at 5 frames per second and project it at 500 frames per second by repeating frames 10 times, would you see judder?
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post #21 of 26
6/8/10 at 3:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank View Post

Yes, at a 3D IMAX theater of course.
They could project at 10 times 24FPS and I would still see "judder" simply because it looks unnatural to me and always has.
I've shot some 2D HDVIDEO at 24FPS and I don't like the way it looks so I now stay with 60I.
I can shoot 3D right now at 24FPS but I have no way to output it in 1920x2160 top bottom format for BluRay, beside I think I prefer half-rez 60i anyway..

P.S.
If you were to shoot video at 5 frames per second and project it at 500 frames per second by repeating frames 10 times, would you see judder?

I don't believe we are on the same page. There are two types of judder; frame and motion. One is caused by the 2:3 pulldown while the other is caused by too slow a frame rate where either the action being captured is too fast for the camera, or when the camera pans, focus is lost.
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post #22 of 26
6/8/10 at 3:52pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

I don't believe we are on the same page. There are two types of judder; frame and motion. One is caused by the 2:3 pulldown while the other is caused by too slow a frame rate where either the action being captured is too fast for the camera, or when the camera pans, focus is lost.

Obviously I am talking about the latter.
Projecting at 48 FPS doesn't reduce judder, it reduces "flicker".
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post #23 of 26
6/8/10 at 4:06pm
Frank,
Yes there are several approved 3D formats.
But siince you wanted your 3D TV to automtically switch I was trying to point out that AFAIK that would only occur if your PC had a HDMI 1.4 transmitter chip and you were sending 3D in packed buffer format.
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post #24 of 26
6/8/10 at 4:17pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by walford View Post

Frank,
Yes there are several approved 3D formats.
But siince you wanted your 3D TV to automtically switch I was trying to point out that AFAIK that would only occur if your PC had a HDMI 1.4 transmitter chip and you were sending 3D in packed buffer format.

PC?
I am playing a BluRay disc that I made in SbS format and wondering how to get the system to recognize it as 3D and display it automatically.
The 3DTV should be able to recognize the format and switch automatically if it was designed to do so. I already know it can be done since it works on my computer with a program from IZ3D.
If any 3DTVs come on the market with this ability I would sure like to know about it.
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post #25 of 26
6/8/10 at 5:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank View Post

PC?
I am playing a BluRay disc that I made in SbS format and wondering how to get the system to recognize it as 3D and display it automatically.
The 3DTV should be able to recognize the format and switch automatically if it was designed to do so. I already know it can be done since it works on my computer with a program from IZ3D.
If any 3DTVs come on the market with this ability I would sure like to know about it.

Frank,

I just got off the phone with an engineer from Panasonic, and from what I could understand, only using Frame Packing does the Panasonic VT25 auto-switch to 3D mode. It has to do with "Content Flagging" that is enabled in the Frame Packing mode. He said that if any content comes in in Side-by-Side or in Top-and-Bottom you'd have to change it over manually.
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post #26 of 26
6/8/10 at 5:35pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRod0802 View Post

Frank,

I just got off the phone with an engineer from Panasonic, and from what I could understand, only using Frame Packing does the Panasonic TV25 auto-switch to 3D mode. It has to do with "Content Flagging" that is enabled in the Frame Packing mode. He said that if any content comes in in Side-by-Side or in Top-and-Bottom you'd have to change it over manually.

Thanks for the info. I suspected as much.
Sounds like a correctable oversight to me.
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